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Any reason why they should be spared?
Njung'e
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:18:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
I borrow from GW's article on SN,

"To me, the more important issue is the fate of the active politicos on the ‘No’ side who will want to continue being on the stage.

Ask yourself this: Can a minister or assistant minister who has venomously opposed the coming constitution continue to operate in any official capacity under a new constitutional order he does not in his bones believe in?"
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Amir
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:31:56 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/15/2010
Posts: 88
Location: sudan
Such a scenario should separate Men From Mboys!!!!

The Brave may not live forever - but the cautious do not live at all: Richard Branson
masukuma
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:05:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
guka...because he like the rest of us who oppose it have a duty according to chapter 3 of the DAFT they will have a duty to...everyone will, not just them....will you bar them from being ministers and presidents in future because they said NO? what about the church leaders? do they become less kenyan?
Quote:

Defence of this Constitution
3. (1) Every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this Constitution.


not the above is not conditional to your voting pattern.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
guru267
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:06:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
I'm pretty sure ruto will lose his job after all this... Simply because if was there when this draft constitution was being made and has been quoted as saying that this proposed constitution was good...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Njung'e
#5 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 7:01:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
guka...because he like the rest of us who oppose it have a duty according to chapter 3 of the DAFT they will have a duty to...everyone will, not just them....will you bar them from being ministers and presidents in future because they said NO? what about the church leaders? do they become less kenyan?
Quote:

Defence of this Constitution
3. (1) Every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend this Constitution.


not the above is not conditional to your voting pattern.


@Masukuma,
If it is "DAFT" as you have put it disrespectfully,would your conscience allow you to sit in the government then?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
simonkabz
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:28:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Mathukuma is one rizon they shouldnt. Watchout, this dude may just kill himself come fifth. With all the bitterness he is harbouring, I really pity him.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
slammers
#7 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 7:33:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/1/2009
Posts: 206
i think there wil be a cabinet reshuffle just like in 2005
Robinhood
#8 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 1:45:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
@All,

When an MP you did not vote for is elected, do you become MPless? Does not Kibs rule over the whole of Kenya even though a huge lot of people did not vote for him? Will this not be our guiding law (all of us including those who vote against it?) Surely a lot of us who do not like certain parts of the constitution will have to live with it. It is the way democracies work - you have to abide by the decisions of the majority. I sincerely hope that Ruto and co are not dismissed from cabinet once the constitution passes. He and his lot should only be fired if he unwilling to take the new oath of allegiance as stated in the new constitution.
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
funnyguy
#9 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 2:02:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 50
Robinhood wrote:
@All,

When am MP you did not vote for is elected, do you become MPless? Does not Kibs rule over the whole of Kenya even though a huge lot of people did not vote for him? Will this not be our guiding law (all of us including those who vote against it?) Surely a lot of us who do not like certain parts of the constitution will have to live with it. It is the way democracies work - you have to abide by the decisions of the majority. I sincerely hope that Ruto and co are not dismissed from cabinet once the constitution passes. He and his lot should only be fired if he unwilling to take the new oath of allegiance as stated in the new constitution.


Good point. Double standards have been the rule of the day. The ones who cried from the roof-tops about mis-use of government resouces to advance a political agenda now are the perpetrators of the same crime. We're all turning a blind eye because the constitution has changed since?

As I always say, beware of the poly-trician, he's full of poly tricks! Discern that.
extrablessed
#10 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 2:15:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/28/2007
Posts: 290
Location: Nairobi
In the unlikely event the YES carries the day, there is most likely to be a reshuffle to diffuse the tension. After all, prezzy has nothing to loose. He might implement the MP-less cabinet right away, appoint RAO the VP (and let him run the gova) and do away with the power-sharing thing....
Intelligentsia
#11 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 2:20:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@ guka I saw this jana and pondered the same issue.
My feeling is that a person who has no passion, interest, ideological inclination in any undertaking (the provisions of the new katiba in this case) has no business being asked to drive/ help implement the same. He just becomes a show stopper. There are lots of subsidiary legislation to pass as spelt out in the new katiba, and these MPs unfortunately will keep shooting down these for frivolous reasons since they didnt agree with the overall framework(new katiba) in the first place. So niwaishie. Let them go continue basking in the dying embers of the old katiba.

Implementing the new katiba will be a delicate dance for all stake holders and they must be very careful who they invite to the dance for it 2 succeed, otherwise you will have people deliberately creating bottlenecks. But the reasons they opposed it MUST be taken on board post-referendum, coz some are valid as the new katiba is not 100% perfect. But mostly,the MPigs are shooting it down for non-ideological reasons (just like Michuki supporting it for personal reasons, not conviction), esp in RV where the issue of protecting land grabbers seems to be the main defining criterion.

In an ideal environment naysaying MPigs would be expected to resign citing irreconcialiable ideological differences with a new constitutional dispensation but since that is as impossible as guka selling of his beloved nineteen wa kamande bijuti, then lets give them the sack. yaani, tuwaweke kwa gunia...smile
Then we can ponder what do do with the clergy..who are mistaken, but sincerely mistaken in their interpretation of the new katiba.

BTW, where is Pastor M? I am waiting in joyfull hope to hear what you have to say on the way fwd for the clergy and the nation come Aug 5th.

Intelligentsia
#12 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 2:28:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
extrablessed wrote:
In the unlikely event the YES carries the day...


the qstn has shifted from whether YES will carry the day to by what landslide margin they will do so.

This from a simple extrapolation of the findings of all those opinion polls, even reckoning if all the undecides went red.


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