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Stanlib Fahari I-Reit FY 2019
wukan
#101 Posted : Sunday, October 22, 2023 6:49:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,589


Almost everyone left. 113.08% performance

Now I get paid and start looking for a home for my 99% capital gains smile
deadpoet
#102 Posted : Tuesday, October 24, 2023 2:39:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/27/2006
Posts: 503
Anyone got theirs today? Haven't received mine.
wukan
#103 Posted : Tuesday, October 24, 2023 3:25:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,589
Haven't received. Given they way they were disorganized on the first day of the offer I say we give them till Friday
littledove
#104 Posted : Tuesday, October 24, 2023 4:37:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/1/2014
Posts: 903
Location: sky
currently the money is flying in through mpesa, i have received two bunches already:d/ :d/ :d/ :d/
There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
wukan
#105 Posted : Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:54:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,589
wukan wrote:
Haven't received. Given they way they were disorganized on the first day of the offer I say we give them till Friday


Payment received Applause
Kenyan Oracle
#106 Posted : Wednesday, October 25, 2023 6:06:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 250
deadpoet wrote:
Anyone got theirs today? Haven't received mine.


Received mine yesterday. Was waiting for this towards end of Oct
You lose money chasing women, but you never lose women chasing money - NAS
deadpoet
#107 Posted : Monday, November 20, 2023 8:45:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/27/2006
Posts: 503
I see fahari is somehow still being traded. Here's a question - should one buy at current prices, until they are bought off at 11 two or three years down the line? I remember reading that investors who opted not to sell would still be bought off down the road. Guaranteed gain if you are willing to wait.
VituVingiSana
#108 Posted : Monday, November 20, 2023 10:07:34 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,097
Location: Nairobi
deadpoet wrote:
I see fahari is somehow still being traded. Here's a question - should one buy at current prices, until they are bought off at 11 two or three years down the line? I remember reading that investors who opted not to sell would still be bought off down the road. Guaranteed gain if you are willing to wait.

There are no guarantees!

Given the rapid rise in the interest rates then the loans that FAHR has or will take will eat into the EBIT.

A lower PAT = lower valuation of the properties.

It may pay off IF the promoter pays 11 or more but at 18% tax-free the IFB seems less risky for the promoter i.e. ILAM chooses not to buy out other unitholders given it can get 18% from bonds.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
deadpoet
#109 Posted : Monday, November 20, 2023 11:14:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/27/2006
Posts: 503
VituVingiSana wrote:
deadpoet wrote:
I see fahari is somehow still being traded. Here's a question - should one buy at current prices, until they are bought off at 11 two or three years down the line? I remember reading that investors who opted not to sell would still be bought off down the road. Guaranteed gain if you are willing to wait.

There are no guarantees!

Given the rapid rise in the interest rates then the loans that FAHR has or will take will eat into the EBIT.

A lower PAT = lower valuation of the properties.

It may pay off IF the promoter pays 11 or more but at 18% tax-free the IFB seems less risky for the promoter i.e. ILAM chooses not to buy out other unitholders given it can get 18% from bonds.


Fahari has no loans, as far as I'm aware. And we would be talking about a potential gain larger than 18%. Though I acknowledge the risk. There's also the potential income from the planned sale of properties.

Edit: there would be little risk for the promoter since 11 bob is still way below NAV.
VituVingiSana
#110 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 9:51:29 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,097
Location: Nairobi
deadpoet wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
deadpoet wrote:
I see fahari is somehow still being traded. Here's a question - should one buy at current prices, until they are bought off at 11 two or three years down the line? I remember reading that investors who opted not to sell would still be bought off down the road. Guaranteed gain if you are willing to wait.

There are no guarantees!

Given the rapid rise in the interest rates then the loans that FAHR has or will take will eat into the EBIT.

A lower PAT = lower valuation of the properties.

It may pay off IF the promoter pays 11 or more but at 18% tax-free the IFB seems less risky for the promoter i.e. ILAM chooses not to buy out other unitholders given it can get 18% from bonds.


Fahari has no loans, as far as I'm aware. And we would be talking about a potential gain larger than 18%. Though I acknowledge the risk. There's also the potential income from the planned sale of properties.

Edit: there would be little risk for the promoter since 11 bob is still way below NAV.


there would be little risk for the promoter since 11 bob is still way below NAV. I am leery of the "valuations" of properties.

Look at Old Mutual, Centum, Britam, etc. Over the past 5 years they have been writing down the value of their properties. For those that have not done so the reality will hit them soon enough.

When T-Bonds were paying 12%, the Rental Yields of 8% were considered acceptable. The 4% differential could have been covered by capital appreciation and increases in rent over time.

When the IFB is paying 18%, some firms are sticking with 8% Rental Yields thus over-valuing their properties.

Investor has 1bn

2019: Buys a property for 1bn that gives him 80mn/year (8%) instead of a T-Bond yielding 12% (120mn). He hopes that rent increases + capital appreciation will give him at least 12% pa

2023: IFB pays 18% (180mn) but the building still yields 80mn - economy is tough and raising rents is hard - so the shortfall is 100mn.

Will someone pay 1bn for the building to get just 80mn?
Or pay 575mn to get 80/600 = 14%? [I am keeping the 4% spread from IFB yields]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#111 Posted : Tuesday, November 21, 2023 10:02:19 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,097
Location: Nairobi
Kenya Re tried to sell the Kisumu building but failed to get 1bn about 2 years ago when interest rates were lower and the economy seemed healthier.

Is that building really worth 1bn in this market?

In 2023, interest yields on IFBs is up 50% from 12% to 18%.
The taxes were lower.
The KES/USD was 110-ish vs 155 today.

I doubt Kenya Re can get more than 600mn for it today from a non-government buyer.

1H23 EPS for Fahari was 48c so let's say it gets to 1/- for FY23.

So at 11/- the RoE is 9% while the IFB is at 18%. That's 2x!

*I am NOT saying ILAM will not pay 11/- in 3 years, the economy will not improve, rents will not rise, etc.

I am just giving the other side of the argument that ILAM may not see this as a slam dunk. They (ILAM) may have had other reasons eg ICEALion moving properties to Fahari for tax benefits.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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