Wazua
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JUBILEE HOLDINGS
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,684 Location: NAIROBI
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My 2 cents wrote:2% is hardly a position Shareholding now at 3% Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,684 Location: NAIROBI
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Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? It will be measured post transaction when you will see the revenue/income Jubilee will be making. Jubilee Holdings share price closes at ksh.148. Now let's wait to see the financial results for FY2022 to better understand why the share price is receiving a beating. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? It will be measured post transaction when you will see the revenue/income Jubilee will be making. Jubilee Holdings share price closes at ksh.148. Now let's wait to see the financial results for FY2022 to better understand why the share price is receiving a beating. These days the share prices of many firms is divorced from performance. That said, Jubilee, like its sibling, DTB, pays lousy dividends. I am slowly buying shares in a firm which will likely have higher profits in 2023 (vs 2022) and pay a sweet dividend. The price I am paying today is lower than what it was in 2018 when it made less money! There are many such examples. But I am only buying shares that pay dividends. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,684 Location: NAIROBI
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Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? https://www.businessdail...neral-insurance-3260150
Meanwhile, Britam Life maintained the lead in the long-term insurance despite its market share shrinking from 24.7 percent to 23.96 percent. ICEA Lion Life Assurance beat Jubilee to the second spot with a market share of 14.68 percent, a rise from 13.8 percent in June 2019. Jubilee Insurance had the biggest drop with it's market share dropping from 15.5% in 2019 Q2 to 13.4% in Q2 2020. ICEA LION Life Assurance had the biggest jump. Market share is not profits. We are going step by step,so that at the conclusion whatever the outcome there will be no noise like where is the evidence. H1 2022 Drop in revenues Drop in profits Share price has now gone below ksh.200 H1 2023 Profits have tumbled in comparison to H1 2022. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? https://www.businessdail...neral-insurance-3260150
Meanwhile, Britam Life maintained the lead in the long-term insurance despite its market share shrinking from 24.7 percent to 23.96 percent. ICEA Lion Life Assurance beat Jubilee to the second spot with a market share of 14.68 percent, a rise from 13.8 percent in June 2019. Jubilee Insurance had the biggest drop with it's market share dropping from 15.5% in 2019 Q2 to 13.4% in Q2 2020. ICEA LION Life Assurance had the biggest jump. Market share is not profits. We are going step by step,so that at the conclusion whatever the outcome there will be no noise like where is the evidence. H1 2022 Drop in revenues Drop in profits Share price has now gone below ksh.200 H1 2023 Profits have tumbled in comparison to H1 2022. IFRS17 1H23 < IFRS4 1H23 IFRS4 1H23 > 1H22 IFRS4 Compare Apples to Apples Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,684 Location: NAIROBI
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VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? https://www.businessdail...neral-insurance-3260150
Meanwhile, Britam Life maintained the lead in the long-term insurance despite its market share shrinking from 24.7 percent to 23.96 percent. ICEA Lion Life Assurance beat Jubilee to the second spot with a market share of 14.68 percent, a rise from 13.8 percent in June 2019. Jubilee Insurance had the biggest drop with it's market share dropping from 15.5% in 2019 Q2 to 13.4% in Q2 2020. ICEA LION Life Assurance had the biggest jump. Market share is not profits. We are going step by step,so that at the conclusion whatever the outcome there will be no noise like where is the evidence. H1 2022 Drop in revenues Drop in profits Share price has now gone below ksh.200 H1 2023 Profits have tumbled in comparison to H1 2022. IFRS17 1H23 < IFRS4 1H23 IFRS4 1H23 > 1H22 IFRS4 Compare Apples to Apples IFRS17 1H23 < IFRS17 1H22 Profits tumbled even when you exclude sale of general insurance business Let's continue the observation. Q1 next year we'll compare full year 2023 and 2022. Then in August HY 2023 vs HY 2024. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/27/2006 Posts: 503
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Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,452
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VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Ericsson wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/me...rmat=jpg&name=large
A.That subject to all statutory and regulatory approvals being obtained,the sale by the company and/or its wholly owned investment subsidiaries of the following shares in the below listed target companies to Allianz Africa Holdings GmbH be approved; (i)66% shareholding of Jubilee General Insurance Limited in Kenya (ii)51% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Burundi (iii)31% shareholding of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda (iv)54.15% shareholding of Jubilee Insurance Mauritius Limited AND FURTHER,the Shareholders approve that following the sale of the aforesaid shares in the Target Companies,the Target Companies shall no longer be subsidiaries of the company. B.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Tanzania in preparation for the separation of the short-term general insurance business ("P&C business") of the Jubilee Insurance Company of Tanzania Limited (JICT) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JICT as a medical insurer only be ratified,and the sale thereafter of 36% shareholding in the new subsidary to Allianz on the understanding that the new subsidiary will no longer be a subsidiary of the company following completion of sale be approved. C.That the incorporation of a new subsidiary in Uganda in preparation for the separation of the health insurance business currently operated by The Jubilee Insurance Company of Uganda Limited (JU) to be transferred to the new subsidiary leaving JU to operate P&C business only,be ratified. Weeh This is a fire sale. Nonsense. They got a great deal/multiple. Read the IM. Actions speak louder 🔊 than words. Time will tell who spoke nonsense . How should we measure it? I would like to come back to it. Silence from @Ericsson? It will be measured post transaction when you will see the revenue/income Jubilee will be making. Jubilee Holdings share price closes at ksh.148. Now let's wait to see the financial results for FY2022 to better understand why the share price is receiving a beating. These days the share prices of many firms is divorced from performance. That said, Jubilee, like its sibling, DTB, pays lousy dividends. I am slowly buying shares in a firm which will likely have higher profits in 2023 (vs 2022) and pay a sweet dividend. The price I am paying today is lower than what it was in 2018 when it made less money! There are many such examples. But I am only buying shares that pay dividends. Which firm is this @vvs? Don't worry, demand will not suddenly go through the roof once you mention it. Guys here will not be placing significant orders for now. Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/2/2010 Posts: 1,066
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VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. The Aga Khan companies; methinks they are run more as social enterprises rather than pure profit plays. They are NOT run to maximise shareholder wealth but are ran more for other social criteria. DTB is perhaps a savings aggregator - to provide as high interest as possible for customers whilst providing capital to other business owned by Aga Khan and a certain sub-section of Kenyans. If you want to benefit from DTBK, be a customer or a borrower. Not a shareholder. That said, I am a shareholder because I hold out hope that someday they will balance all interests including minority shareholders.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. Re: dividend payers, I concur on the first two. EABL? I bailed after 6 years of consistently getting <4 DY.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Posts: 112
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@ Maich Black - Stanchart traded around Kshs. 190/- in 2018...but as VVS says, there are others whose current share prices defy logic given their DY's...
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Monk wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. Re: dividend payers, I concur on the first two. EABL? I bailed after 6 years of consistently getting <4 DY. I was referring to the Dividend Payout Ratio and not the absolute dividend or DY. The dividend will vary based on earnings, cashflows and future needs. EABL has a high DPR during the recent. SCBK - 65%+ (of late it has been 80%) BAT - 80%+ (even 100% is not unknown) CARB - 80% (past 2 years has been almost 100%) DTB and Jubilee are less than 25% DPR from a low RoE! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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My 2 cents wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. The Aga Khan companies; methinks they are run more as social enterprises rather than pure profit plays. They are NOT run to maximise shareholder wealth but are ran more for other social criteria. DTB is perhaps a savings aggregator - to provide as high interest as possible for customers whilst providing capital to other business owned by Aga Khan and a certain sub-section of Kenyans. If you want to benefit from DTBK, be a customer or a borrower. Not a shareholder. That said, I am a shareholder because I hold out hope that someday they will balance all interests including minority shareholders. That said, I am a shareholder because I hold out hope that someday they will balance all interests including minority shareholders. Me too! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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VituVingiSana wrote:Monk wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. Re: dividend payers, I concur on the first two. EABL? I bailed after 6 years of consistently getting <4 DY. I was referring to the Dividend Payout Ratio and not the absolute dividend or DY. The dividend will vary based on earnings, cashflows and future needs. EABL has a high DPR during the recent. SCBK - 65%+ (of late it has been 80%) BAT - 80%+ (even 100% is not unknown) CARB - 80% (past 2 years has been almost 100%) DTB and Jubilee are less than 25% DPR from a low RoE! Understood. WTK too seems to fall in that category.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Monk wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Monk wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:deadpoet wrote:Read somewhere that the book value of this share is 600+. The market will likely never reflect this price with the 'spit in the face of shareholders' dividends. KES 140m dividends with profits of 2 billi? c'mon, man! Same story with DTB. It's not the low DPS that bothers me as much as the awful RoE. The best dividend payers are foreigners eg SCBK, BAT and even EABL. CARB is an exception on the local front. Re: dividend payers, I concur on the first two. EABL? I bailed after 6 years of consistently getting <4 DY. I was referring to the Dividend Payout Ratio and not the absolute dividend or DY. The dividend will vary based on earnings, cashflows and future needs. EABL has a high DPR during the recent. SCBK - 65%+ (of late it has been 80%) BAT - 80%+ (even 100% is not unknown) CARB - 80% (past 2 years has been almost 100%) DTB and Jubilee are less than 25% DPR from a low RoE! Understood. WTK too seems to fall in that category. WTK and KAPC, until FY23, took the policy of paying an absolute dividend vs a DPR. It was 20 for WTK and 10 for KAPC but the weak KES/$ or the Magors wanted more has given shareholders a higher DPS. All good for minorities! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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