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The biggest obstacles to our success as a country
radiomast
#11 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 9:25:42 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
wukan wrote:

Stop blaming leaders it is only you who can uplift yourself. Work hard, produce wealth and kids you can cater for.


Do you ever wonder why Africa remains an economic backwater?

Why is it that in 1963, Kenya and South Korea were at per in terms of GDP per capita. Yet today Korea GDP per capita is 15 times that of Kenya?
radiomast
#12 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 9:36:47 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition
murchr
#13 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 11:01:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition



Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mv_ufanisi
#14 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 11:21:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
We have a very short term emotional approach to politics. In 2007, it was Kibaki vs Raila, Kikuyu versus other Kenyan tribes led by the Luo, life or death. In 2012 it was Uhuru vs Raila, life or death, in 2017 again it was Uhuru vs Raila, life or death. In 2022, its Ruto vs Raila, life or death.

These highly emotive contests that lack in intellectual substance are the evidence of a reduction in the average national IQ. We never learn that these political contests are all about the big boys and girls. Somehow the Kenyan voter is an eternal sucker for these sideshows and can never focus on the real important stuff. a

Meanwhile, our population is burgeoning, our growing numbers of young unemployed people will end up as slaves in foreign lands such as the Middle East, Europe or the US doing manual labor. So how did we end up with such a low national IQ?
kaka2za
#15 Posted : Saturday, October 31, 2020 12:28:32 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
radiomast wrote:
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition


It is well known that the government knew about the coup and let it happen so that they could purge the undesirable.
Fact is it changed the course of Moi rule
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
radiomast
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 6:13:26 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:


Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please


How was he involved ? Do you mean he supported the coup? If so thats not news. The coup plans were well known and several UoN lecturers and students were informed of the coup and supported it.

Also if he was involved then how come he was kept in detention without trial for 8 years and never found guilty?

The coup plot started as far back as 1981. And obviously Moi knew about it.

In 1981, Kenya's spy chief Kanyotu (pictured) and top soldier Gen. Mulinge became aware of plans to stage a mutiny in the military -mostly in the Air Force. Morale in some sections was low and there were allegations of tribalism.


Below is an excerpt of the book "Between Hope and Despair, 1963-2011"



From the Standard

Sometimes in March, 1982, a small yet subversive group of airmen at the Kenya Air Force Base, Nanyuki, started to plot to overthrow the Kenya government. Between March, 1982, and August 1, 1982, the group expanded rapidly in membership due to a spirited recruitment drive in every unit of the Kenya Air Force as well as in other units of the Kenya Army.

As early as May 1982, the intelligence community had already received reports that Kenya Air Force personnel were planning a coup. This is first time these reports reached Special Branch officers, famed for having their ears always on the ground.


In Mid July of 1982, General Kariuki informed Sawe and Mulinge who in turn briefed Moi on the impending coup. Kariuki asked for permission to arrest the coup plotters. Moi refused.
Conquestador
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 7:38:13 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/17/2010
Posts: 110
Location: Nairobi
Kenya's #1 binding constraint is economic development. Itself caused by too little investments and too little output (national laziness).
Everything else is an externality of that
alma1
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 7:58:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Kenyans love thieves.
Kenyans vote for thieves.
Kenyans don't mind being thieves.

They even steal in churches and mosques.

Sometimes you have to look at your soul to know the truth.

Kenyans have a habit of blaming everyone else other than themselves. Ohhh Laira...Ohhh Looto..

That's the problem.

I will tell you a story one day of a shingding we had with our former classmates who want to be one of the extra mpigs under BBI...You will learn you are stupid.

Especially if you are a paid mbrogger like Itumbi and Alai.

Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

murchr
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 8:05:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:


Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please


How was he involved ? Do you mean he supported the coup? If so thats not news. The coup plans were well known and several UoN lecturers and students were informed of the coup and supported it.

Also if he was involved then how come he was kept in detention without trial for 8 years and never found guilty?

The coup plot started as far back as 1981. And obviously Moi knew about it.

In 1981, Kenya's spy chief Kanyotu (pictured) and top soldier Gen. Mulinge became aware of plans to stage a mutiny in the military -mostly in the Air Force. Morale in some sections was low and there were allegations of tribalism.


Below is an excerpt of the book "Between Hope and Despair, 1963-2011"



From the Standard

Sometimes in March, 1982, a small yet subversive group of airmen at the Kenya Air Force Base, Nanyuki, started to plot to overthrow the Kenya government. Between March, 1982, and August 1, 1982, the group expanded rapidly in membership due to a spirited recruitment drive in every unit of the Kenya Air Force as well as in other units of the Kenya Army.

As early as May 1982, the intelligence community had already received reports that Kenya Air Force personnel were planning a coup. This is first time these reports reached Special Branch officers, famed for having their ears always on the ground.


In Mid July of 1982, General Kariuki informed Sawe and Mulinge who in turn briefed Moi on the impending coup. Kariuki asked for permission to arrest the coup plotters. Moi refused.



A crime is a crime after it happens otherwise the plotters can always deny. Romours and intelligence only serve a purpose of information but that doesnt suggest that the Govt was involved.

Right now there's enough intelligence that there's an imminent terror attack in Europe but that doesnt mean that the EU govts have to stop it and if they dont then they are part of it.

So Raila was indeed part of the plotters as were many, but he did not kill or steal so he wasn't arrested. But he agreed in his book that he took part in planning.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2020 6:54:16 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:





A crime is a crime after it happens otherwise the plotters can always deny. Romours and intelligence only serve a purpose of information but that doesnt suggest that the Govt was involved.

Right now there's enough intelligence that there's an imminent terror attack in Europe but that doesnt mean that the EU govts have to stop it and if they dont then they are part of it.

So Raila was indeed part of the plotters as were many, but he did not kill or steal so he wasn't arrested. But he agreed in his book that he took part in planning.



The bigger crime is that Moi knew about the coup for several months. Perhaps even a whole year and he let it happen anyway. All the people died because of Moi's inaction.

Moi was also wrong for banning opposition parties. When the public has no way of electing someone they want, they will resort to coups.

Finally Moi was wrong for detaining people without charges, without evidence and in the case of Prof Micere Mugo, he even withdrew her citizenship thus leaving her stateless. A gross violation of Human rights.

As I said earlier, Maj Gen Kariuki was thrown in prison even though he had done his job by informing Moi of the impending coup. Hinga the former police commissioner was also sent to Kamiti. Why? I don't know.

Not to mention the hundreds and hundreds of UoN students, some of whom died. Adungosi died only a few weeks before he was supposed to be released, killed by Moi's goons.

Furthermore, Moi sent his army goons to kill several Airforce members including those not involved in the coup.

Moi thoroughly stabbed Charles Njonjo in the back. Remember it was Njonjo who fronted Moi for the VP position in 1965 then helped him ascend to power. Then after the 1982 coup, Moi branded Njonjo a traitor and through him out of the cabinet.
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