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Devolution Revenue Sharing Formula
radiomast
#181 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2020 11:40:16 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:



What does the constitution say about contracts?


Governors are awarding tenders worth millions to their friends, wives, girlfriends and family members. So there clearly is not enough oversight.
All I can say is that there needs to be stronger oversight. IMO Funds for a project should only be disbursed to a county when certain criteria has been met e.g.

1. It has been established that the public will benefit from the project (Build a business case or a social case)
2. The project details were published. There was a competitive bidding process.
3. There is no conflict of interest in selecting the Contractor

If the set criteria is not met, funds should not be disbursed. Furthermore, counties should be audited on an ongoing basis. Preferably by an independent accounting firm. It should not be left to MCAs to impeach the governor.

Court cases are not of much use. I doubt that either Aisha Jumwa or Okoth Obado or Waititu or any of the other thieves will lose the money they stole. And how often does a politician go to jail for corruption. Basically there is no deterrent. If you steal, you will likely get away with it. At worst you will be impeached but still keep the money you stole.

And as someone pointed out, this issue doesn't just affect money going to counties. It also affects ministries. Something is fundamentally wrong with the tender process in this country. Again the president can fix this issue but he is asleep.
murchr
#182 Posted : Tuesday, September 01, 2020 2:52:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:



What does the constitution say about contracts?


Governors are awarding tenders worth millions to their friends, wives, girlfriends and family members. So there clearly is not enough oversight.
All I can say is that there needs to be stronger oversight. IMO Funds for a project should only be disbursed to a county when certain criteria has been met e.g.

1. It has been established that the public will benefit from the project (Build a business case or a social case)
2. The project details were published. There was a competitive bidding process.
3. There is no conflict of interest in selecting the Contractor

If the set criteria is not met, funds should not be disbursed. Furthermore, counties should be audited on an ongoing basis. Preferably by an independent accounting firm. It should not be left to MCAs to impeach the governor.

Court cases are not of much use. I doubt that either Aisha Jumwa or Okoth Obado or Waititu or any of the other thieves will lose the money they stole. And how often does a politician go to jail for corruption. Basically there is no deterrent. If you steal, you will likely get away with it. At worst you will be impeached but still keep the money you stole.

And as someone pointed out, this issue doesn't just affect money going to counties. It also affects ministries. Something is fundamentally wrong with the tender process in this country. Again the president can fix this issue but he is asleep.



Governors dont award tenders - county tender committees do.

Tenders are awarded to companies those so called friends are not known until later. I don't see anything wrong with friends winning tenders as along as the tendering process was fair and by the book.

The constitution does not deal with such laws it only gives parliament(National assembly and senate) the right to draft laws on processes and regulations. The constitution also states who will assist in allocating monies and who will audit how your money is used Auditor General. EACCs job is to investigate anything corruption these institutions have been created and empowered in the constitution and given the security of tenure. Really EACC has everything they need to fight vice, its just that the constitution is not implemented. Most of these people think they should bow down to politicians and wait for directions yet they have the law on their side. The judiciary has also failed but they are blaming the President for not hiring judges so really blame uhuru, he took the oath to implement the constitution and abide by it.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#183 Posted : Tuesday, September 01, 2020 5:27:13 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:


Governors dont award tenders - county tender committees do.


Then how did Waititu's wives and daughters end up with 10 tenders worth Ksh 18 million in a space of 3 months?
https://nation.africa/ke...fe-and-daughters-234848


Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with friends winning tenders as along as the tendering process was fair and by the book.

Then you don't understand the meaning of conflict of interest. This is one of the issues holding Kenya back. If you award tenders to friends, they will likely get away with providing shoddy overpriced products.

And what book are you talking about? There is no book. There is no competitive bidding as far as I can see. If there was, there is no way a governors friend can win a contract. Such contracts would always go to big companies that can provide products cheaper through economies of scale.

Why for example should Nyokabi Muthama's company get a tender to provide K95 masks? Wouldn't it cheaper for KEMSA to source them directly from the manufacturer? Also KEMSA can enforce quality standards if they work directly with the manufacturer.

Quote:
The constitution does not deal with such laws it only gives parliament(National assembly and senate) the right to draft laws on processes and regulations.

Thats exactly the problem. Devolution should have included oversight. All devolution has done is to spread corruption from the centre to 50 different centres.

Quote:
EACCs job is to investigate anything corruption these institutions have been created and empowered in the constitution and given the security of tenure. Really EACC has everything they need to fight vice, its just that the constitution is not implemented. The judiciary has also failed but they are blaming the President for not hiring judges so really blame uhuru, he took the oath to implement the constitution and abide by it.


This is the Fire Brigade approach where you wait until the building is on fire before you douse it with water. Instead of this approach, we should prevent the corruption from happening through proper oversight. Instead of waiting for Waititu and others to irregularly award tenders, there should be oversight to prevent the corruption from happening. Oversight is far more efficient and far more cost effective than trying to use the ill-equipped judiciary or the EACC to fight corruption. It is more cost effective to prevent corruption from happening than to react to it
murchr
#184 Posted : Tuesday, September 01, 2020 8:06:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:


Governors dont award tenders - county tender committees do.


Then how did Waititu's wives and daughters end up with 10 tenders worth Ksh 18 million in a space of 3 months?
https://nation.africa/ke...fe-and-daughters-234848

People can be bribed which is a crime


Quote:
I don't see anything wrong with friends winning tenders as along as the tendering process was fair and by the book.

Then you don't understand the meaning of conflict of interest. This is one of the issues holding Kenya back. If you award tenders to friends, they will likely get away with providing shoddy overpriced products.

And what book are you talking about? There is no book. There is no competitive bidding as far as I can see. If there was, there is no way a governors friend can win a contract. Such contracts would always go to big companies that can provide products cheaper through economies of scale.

Why for example should Nyokabi Muthama's company get a tender to provide K95 masks? Wouldn't it cheaper for KEMSA to source them directly from the manufacturer? Also KEMSA can enforce quality standards if they work directly with the manufacturer.

The constitution advocates for affirmative action and allows for women and youth to supply to the govt, if Nyokabi decides to hide under the shadow called Escobar its up to the tender committees to judge if they should or not otherwise the illegality is not being uhuru's sister but inflating prices

Quote:
The constitution does not deal with such laws it only gives parliament(National assembly and senate) the right to draft laws on processes and regulations.

Thats exactly the problem. Devolution should have included oversight. All devolution has done is to spread corruption from the centre to 50 different centres.

Oversight = Senate. Judge how they do their job on the ballot otherwise they have powers, dont you see the summons?

Quote:
EACCs job is to investigate anything corruption these institutions have been created and empowered in the constitution and given the security of tenure. Really EACC has everything they need to fight vice, its just that the constitution is not implemented. The judiciary has also failed but they are blaming the President for not hiring judges so really blame uhuru, he took the oath to implement the constitution and abide by it.




This is the Fire Brigade approach where you wait until the building is on fire before you douse it with water. Instead of this approach, we should prevent the corruption from happening through proper oversight. Instead of waiting for Waititu and others to irregularly award tenders, there should be oversight to prevent the corruption from happening. Oversight is far more efficient and far more cost effective than trying to use the ill-equipped judiciary or the EACC to fight corruption. It is more cost effective to prevent corruption from happening than to react to it


If everything is done according to the law there would be no problem, all these crimes come about by violating the law and EACC was built to deal with that
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#185 Posted : Tuesday, September 01, 2020 10:13:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
Quote:
People can be bribed which is a crime


In Kenya, Tender Committee is appointed by he county secretary who in turn reports to the governor

So when Waititu wants to award a contract to his daughter, he doesn't need to bribe anybody. He can simply appoint people who will do his bidding. Those who don't will be fired. Thats whats wrong with our system. Thats what I mean by NO OVERSIGHT.

Therefore these tender committees you keep talking about are useless. Its like asking a criminal to police himself.

Quote:
If everything is done according to the law there would be no problem, all these crimes come about by violating the law and EACC was built to deal with that


The bolded part is very funny. I am starting to wonder if you live in Kenya. Do you actually expect Kenyan politicians to obey the law? Kenyan politicians have been acting with impunity since 1963. I feel like I am reading the thoughts of a person who lives in Scandinavia where everything is done properly and everyone obeys the law.

Quote:
Oversight = Senate. Judge how they do their job on the ballot otherwise they have powers, dont you see the summons?

Again do you live in Kenya? The Kenyan judiciary is the most innefficient. And in my life I don't recall Kenyan politicians going to jail for corruption. It will never happen. The best way to address this issue is to put in place structures that will prevent governors from engaging in corruption. Its more cost efficient and more realistic.
murchr
#186 Posted : Wednesday, September 02, 2020 3:53:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
Quote:
People can be bribed which is a crime


In Kenya, Tender Committee is appointed by he county secretary who in turn reports to the governor

So when Waititu wants to award a contract to his daughter, he doesn't need to bribe anybody. He can simply appoint people who will do his bidding. Those who don't will be fired. Thats whats wrong with our system. Thats what I mean by NO OVERSIGHT.

Therefore these tender committees you keep talking about are useless. Its like asking a criminal to police himself.

Quote:
If everything is done according to the law there would be no problem, all these crimes come about by violating the law and EACC was built to deal with that


The bolded part is very funny. I am starting to wonder if you live in Kenya. Do you actually expect Kenyan politicians to obey the law? Kenyan politicians have been acting with impunity since 1963. I feel like I am reading the thoughts of a person who lives in Scandinavia where everything is done properly and everyone obeys the law.

Quote:
Oversight = Senate. Judge how they do their job on the ballot otherwise they have powers, dont you see the summons?

Again do you live in Kenya? The Kenyan judiciary is the most innefficient. And in my life I don't recall Kenyan politicians going to jail for corruption. It will never happen. The best way to address this issue is to put in place structures that will prevent governors from engaging in corruption. Its more cost efficient and more realistic.




You say Kenyan politicians cannot obey the law, what more structures would make them do? We elect them so really we are the problem. No amount of money spent to polish the constitution- big agenda is to add positions for themselves- can finish corruption yet we as Kenyans cant even stop at the traffic lights.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#187 Posted : Wednesday, September 02, 2020 7:10:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:


You say Kenyan politicians cannot obey the law, what more structures would make them do? We elect them so really we are the problem. No amount of money spent to polish the constitution- big agenda is to add positions for themselves- can finish corruption yet we as Kenyans cant even stop at the traffic lights.


I explained this in a previous post which I am guessing you did not read. So let me repeat my proposal.

Funds should be disbursed only when certain criteria has been met. There needs to be One National INDEPENDENT REVIEW BOARD not 50 different county tender committees.
If a governor wants to initiate a project the following must happen

1. Governor submits proposal to board
2. Board reviews proposal for feasibility, business need and social need
3. If Board approves project, Governor publishes proposal and accepts public bids and selects bidder
4. Board reviews the bid to ensure technical competence and to ensure the costs are appropriate
5. Board disburses funds


Its a very simple process. It will prevent governor from giving tenders to his wife or kids. It will eliminate frivolous projects. And there will be no need for court cases. Similar processes are used in the private sector and by various governments across the world. I don't understand why Kenya cannot adopt a similar process.

I highlighted the word INDEPENDENT because those County tender committees you spoke of are not independent. They basically report to the governor.

In this proposal, the governor will have no choice but to follow the proper procedure. If he doesn't then he doesn't get any funds
murchr
#188 Posted : Wednesday, September 02, 2020 8:43:03 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:


You say Kenyan politicians cannot obey the law, what more structures would make them do? We elect them so really we are the problem. No amount of money spent to polish the constitution- big agenda is to add positions for themselves- can finish corruption yet we as Kenyans cant even stop at the traffic lights.


I explained this in a previous post which I am guessing you did not read. So let me repeat my proposal.

Funds should be disbursed only when certain criteria has been met. There needs to be One National INDEPENDENT REVIEW BOARD not 50 different county tender committees.
If a governor wants to initiate a project the following must happen

1. Governor submits proposal to board
2. Board reviews proposal for feasibility, business need and social need
3. If Board approves project, Governor publishes proposal and accepts public bids and selects bidder
4. Board reviews the bid to ensure technical competence and to ensure the costs are appropriate
5. Board disburses funds


Its a very simple process. It will prevent governor from giving tenders to his wife or kids. It will eliminate frivolous projects. And there will be no need for court cases. Similar processes are used in the private sector and by various governments across the world. I don't understand why Kenya cannot adopt a similar process.

I highlighted the word INDEPENDENT because those County tender committees you spoke of are not independent. They basically report to the governor.

In this proposal, the governor will have no choice but to follow the proper procedure. If he doesn't then he doesn't get any funds



Who will select who sits on this board?

We currently have boards that is Senate and County Assemblies that give approvals to all county initiatives. Just like the way the Finance minister tables his budget in parliament, the county finance officer does the same in county assemblies and MCAS give approval, also note an independent body in the name of comptroller of budgets will also have a look. When the project is complete and independent office established by the constitution known as the Auditor General, comes in, classifys these projects in terms of whether they were a waste of money or they were actually developmental. If they wasted money a report is made to the "board" aka MCAs and they will choose whether to impeach the gov or take him to senate. The senate does what it does.

So if the board members we elect by ourselves cannot do the job, who will the selected board members work for?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#189 Posted : Wednesday, September 02, 2020 10:06:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:


We currently have boards that is Senate and County Assemblies that give approvals to all county initiatives. Just like the way the Finance minister tables his budget in parliament, the county finance officer does the same in county assemblies and MCAS give approval, also note an independent body in the name of comptroller of budgets will also have a look. When the project is complete and independent office established by the constitution known as the Auditor General, comes in, classifys these projects in terms of whether they were a waste of money or they were actually developmental. If they wasted money a report is made to the "board" aka MCAs and they will choose whether to impeach the gov or take him to senate. The senate does what it does.

So if the board members we elect by ourselves cannot do the job, who will the selected board members work for?



You can't possibly be serious. If there is already as much oversight as you are claiming, then how the heck does Waititu end up giving his own daughter a contract for millions? Did he bribe all those people you named: Finance Officer, Auditor General, MCAs . How did Okoth Obado pocket millions in counrt money? Clearly there is no oversight.

The problem with people like you is that you seem to trust elected officials. I don't. Politicians by their nature cannot be relied on for any kind of oversight. Many are poorly educated. Most are corrupt. In kenya today, everyone who runs for elected office runs because there is plenty of money to be made. Not because they are qualified or are eager to make the country better. Yet people like you keep thinking that politicians will solve our issues.

If it were up to me I would propose the creation of a scaled down version of the National Audit Office (NAO) that exists in the UK and is responsible for auditing public finances. It could be staffed by real technocrats, people with corporate experience and appropriate credentials. This was established as far back as 500 years ago. Here were are in 2020 and Mwafrika still has not seen the need for such an institution. Instead of creating institutions and structures that make us better, we instead invest heavily in paying senators, MCAs, governors and former presidents hefty salaries. These are the reasons Africa is a sheet-hole.

An NAO type organization would save a lot of money. All that money the govt wastes in useless court cases. And again it would require a president who genuinely wants to fight corruption.
murchr
#190 Posted : Wednesday, September 02, 2020 10:49:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:


We currently have boards that is Senate and County Assemblies that give approvals to all county initiatives. Just like the way the Finance minister tables his budget in parliament, the county finance officer does the same in county assemblies and MCAS give approval, also note an independent body in the name of comptroller of budgets will also have a look. When the project is complete and independent office established by the constitution known as the Auditor General, comes in, classifys these projects in terms of whether they were a waste of money or they were actually developmental. If they wasted money a report is made to the "board" aka MCAs and they will choose whether to impeach the gov or take him to senate. The senate does what it does.

So if the board members we elect by ourselves cannot do the job, who will the selected board members work for?



You can't possibly be serious. If there is already as much oversight as you are claiming, then how the heck does Waititu end up giving his own daughter a contract for millions? Did he bribe all those people you named: Finance Officer, Auditor General, MCAs . How did Okoth Obado pocket millions in counrt money? Clearly there is no oversight.

The problem with people like you is that you seem to trust elected officials. I don't. Politicians by their nature cannot be relied on for any kind of oversight. Many are poorly educated. Most are corrupt. In kenya today, everyone who runs for elected office runs because there is plenty of money to be made. Not because they are qualified or are eager to make the country better. Yet people like you keep thinking that politicians will solve our issues.

If it were up to me I would propose the creation of a scaled down version of the National Audit Office (NAO) that exists in the UK and is responsible for auditing public finances. It could be staffed by real technocrats, people with corporate experience and appropriate credentials. This was established as far back as 500 years ago. Here were are in 2020 and Mwafrika still has not seen the need for such an institution. Instead of creating institutions and structures that make us better, we instead invest heavily in paying senators, MCAs, governors and former presidents hefty salaries. These are the reasons Africa is a sheet-hole.

An NAO type organization would save a lot of money. All that money the govt wastes in useless court cases. And again it would require a president who genuinely wants to fight corruption.



What you are talking about already exists. There's nothing new. As to why Waititu is giving contracts to his daughter..who told you anything would stop a thief? That contract was not awarded to a girl called Waititu's daughter but Waititu's daughter hiding under some curtain, a very sophisticated company with experience, it took investigations to unravel who the directors are.

You need to deal with the morality of the country first, nothing can stop a Kenyan thief

http://kenyalaw.org:8181/exist/kenyalex/actview.xql?actid=No.%2034%20of%202015
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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