@Wendz

I hear you ma’am.

Thanks for advancing an issues oriented debate and keeping it fairly civil, an increasingly diminishing attribute here.

Having said that, I hasten to add that whereas I appreciate the import of your sentiments, I still think what I postulated in my earlier post still stands;
That there are only a few REAL contentious issues which can be sorted out fairly easily if the will existed.
Other fringe contentions advanced by 0.002% of the population can be put on the ice for now.

Giving excuses of fear of an avalanche of demands to deny genuinely aggrieved Kenyans an opportunity to have their strongly felt REAL issues addressed is to be headstrong and uncompromising.

My point on dividing the country down the middle was probably taken out of context.
I meant to say that A constitution to govern us ought to muster a near universal acceptance.
Having one passed by a low threshold as this one seems headed to is not good for serious society.
I hence proposed the small sacrifice to nip that imminent wrong in the bud, by allowing a short time out to caucus and widen the acceptance scope.

I hope we agree that once this set of laws pass, amendments won’t be coming any time soon given the high threshold set to do so.

That the desired amendments didn’t see the light of day in parliament is a matter to be blamed on the political class.

We are all aware that passage/amendment of any major law is always negotiated outside parlimant and agreed upon beforehand, - so that the tabling of the same on the floor of the house is a mere formality to give it the stamp of legislature.

This was arranged for - Naivasha - and we all remember with disdain the shenanigans that followed!!

Having failed in their duty for which we pay through the nose, they unashamedly went ahead to ask us to pass the laws anyway regardless of the flaws that they had pointed out!

I hate to accept mediocrity especially when I am pay an arm and a leg for the service.

@Wendz

Keep the earlier tempo and shun any effort that takes this discussion in the wrong direction.

First things first I cant speak for Ruto.
I dont care which side of the divide he is, nor do I know for sure what his issues are.
However I know that politicians are perpectual turn coats and if one were to keep their faith on them then they had better be ready for frequent dissapointments.

Raila for one, and curiously his faithful followers (including those in wazua) were for a Parliamentary system but conveniently shifted ground, ostensibly to avert a waterloo.

http://www.wazua.co.ke/f...osts&t=5766&p=2

My position is informed of the issues I raised and I can only substantiate on those.

I hope you are where you are not because of a politician but because of your own convictions!

Again dont make important decisions on the basis of how you relate with so and so.

Ruto could make another about turn today to join the yes camp! I wouldnt be moved and I hope thats not a strong enough reason for you to quit the yes camp either.

I have not seen Rutos name in the draft or current constitution, neither is Mois, Koigis, kibakis, railas name inside the constitution. Naming people and then proceeding to make remarks based on the character of some personality as if it carries some weight on the debate bears a somewhat unqualified reasoning! Why not stick to the issues?

@Funnyguy,

So true.

Even with the best of constitutions if you elect a demagogue you reap demagoguery.
You elect a typical African strong man, you get shafted around.
The Germans elected Hitler, they never saw what hit them!

In the US under the same constitution they experience two contrasting leadership styles - Bush - limiting civil liberties as well as practicing torture - water boarding et al.
He even tried his hand in some kind of Cowboy adventurism in Iraq - using fraud that he was hunting weapons of mass destruction.
Important as it is to have, too much faith in the new constitution is sheer folly.
Under our current set of laws Moi did what he did.

Under the same frame work Kibaki has exercised amazing tolerance and spurred economic improvement as well as accommodating and sponsoring a culture of civil liberties that flourishes.

This teaches us that it is not so much the constitution but the cultures inculcated in people and the choice of leadership they pick.
That’s why in my previous post I have sought to disabuse people of the view that the coming of the new constitution is a panacea of sorts.

After all is said and done, I want Kenya to have a new constitution, and so pronto, but I know better than expect that it’s the saviour to sort out all our problems.

The road to the new constitution however ought to be as inclusive as possible to give Kenyans a ownership feeling as well as make them at ease with the way they are governed.

@B.Timer: My point on dividing the country down the middle was probably taken out of context.
I meant to say that A constitution to govern us ought to muster a near universal acceptance.
Having one passed by a low threshold as this one seems headed to is not good for serious society.
I hence proposed the small sacrifice to nip that imminent wrong in the bud, by allowing a short time out to caucus and widen the acceptance scope.


I love how Wazuans are issues oriented, seriously its a rare forum. However, we must be alert to the political dimensions which significantly shape the whole debate. Thats why I don't shy from naming names, after all the whole affair is political and cannot be debated in isolation. Having said that:

My take on this:


This has been used by church leaders and "watermelons", this is hypocrisy of the highest order. Not even the church itself has this "near universal" agreement even on the "holy book itself" there are over 50 versions of the Bible, a million sects and denominations etc. We must not be blind to the politics of the whole debate.

The NO team simply does not care about the peoples' welfare even as they posture themselves as pointing out the defects of the Draft law. They simply look at their personal positions after August 4th. Watch this space after Aug 4th, I don't foresee any of the busy bodies agitating for the amendments they so loudly agitate for.

@Mtufunny,lets not be too cynical because leadership will evolve if and when the requisite institutions are in place. Lets give credit where its due we must appreciate that this government has gone one step better than the KANU regime, we have a draft and the political will to push it through.