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Building an apartment complex. Too good to be true?
Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm!  Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/15/2009 Posts: 359
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amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/15/2010 Posts: 454 Location: Nairobi
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shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? . I won't mind to get the best deal in the market. But do due deligence before signing-up. Ask for the projects they have completed in the recent past and talk to the owner or ask around. Then, consider working with them in phases such as, Up to foundation, then up to ground floor etc,etc. ....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? I always pay by phase as tinker has advised above. I think these guys are a scam. Ati 5 floors, three shops ground, 4 apartments per upper floor, including finishes for every single apartment, plumbing and electrical  Haiwezekani kabisa. I think these guys low ball the bid then when construction starts they say "pesa imeisha" and ask for more and more and more each stage. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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tinker wrote:shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? . I won't mind to get the best deal in the market. But do due deligence before signing-up. Ask for the projects they have completed in the recent past and talk to the owner or ask around. Then, consider working with them in phases such as, Up to foundation, then up to ground floor etc,etc. Great tips, thanks. My game plan is to get all approvals including change of user then build in stages. 1. Ground floor shops (stalls, small restaurant and small duka) and caretakers apartment 2. Connect water and stima and move into caretakers apartment. Construction accesss will be from back of the building. 3. Rent out home I am currently living in to turbo boost income so that construction keeps going without interruption each month. 4. Rent out stalls and shops for same reason as 3 above 5. As each floor completes, flood with tenants and repeat until complete 6. Roof will be for tanks and clothes lines and small playground area for kids. I plan to take no loans whatsoever, just finance from savings. Any suggestions, tweaks or tips to this plan? Thanks in advance.. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,097 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:tinker wrote:shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? . I won't mind to get the best deal in the market. But do due deligence before signing-up. Ask for the projects they have completed in the recent past and talk to the owner or ask around. Then, consider working with them in phases such as, Up to foundation, then up to ground floor etc,etc. Great tips, thanks. My game plan is to get all approvals including change of user then build in stages. 1. Ground floor shops (stalls, small restaurant and small duka) and caretakers apartment 2. Connect water and stima and move into caretakers apartment. Construction accesss will be from back of the building. 3. Rent out home I am currently living in to turbo boost income so that construction keeps going without interruption each month. 4. Rent out stalls and shops for same reason as 3 above 5. As each floor completes, flood with tenants and repeat until complete 6. Roof will be for tanks and clothes lines and small playground area for kids. I plan to take no loans whatsoever, just finance from savings. Any suggestions, tweaks or tips to this plan? Thanks in advance.. Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/15/2010 Posts: 454 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:tinker wrote:shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? . I won't mind to get the best deal in the market. But do due deligence before signing-up. Ask for the projects they have completed in the recent past and talk to the owner or ask around. Then, consider working with them in phases such as, Up to foundation, then up to ground floor etc,etc. Great tips, thanks. My game plan is to get all approvals including change of user then build in stages. 1. Ground floor shops (stalls, small restaurant and small duka) and caretakers apartment 2. Connect water and stima and move into caretakers apartment. Construction accesss will be from back of the building. 3. Rent out home I am currently living in to turbo boost income so that construction keeps going without interruption each month. 4. Rent out stalls and shops for same reason as 3 above 5. As each floor completes, flood with tenants and repeat until complete 6. Roof will be for tanks and clothes lines and small playground area for kids. I plan to take no loans whatsoever, just finance from savings. Any suggestions, tweaks or tips to this plan? Thanks in advance.. Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing? Uko sawa buda if you can finance apartment construction "non-stop" from your savings. Regarding occupying ground floor and other subsequent floor without roof means you have to deal with shutter leakages during rainy seasons and by extension paint wearing. ....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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tinker wrote:
Uko sawa buda if you can finance apartment construction "non-stop" from your savings.
Regarding occupying ground floor and other subsequent floor without roof means you have to deal with shutter leakages during rainy seasons and by extension paint wearing.
Noted with thanks Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/1/2007 Posts: 539 Location: Nakuru
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amorphous wrote:shocks wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. tell them to break down that cost and agree on specifications for the works. how are payment terms, are you paying upfront? I always pay by phase as tinker has advised above. I think these guys are a scam. Ati 5 floors, three shops ground, 4 apartments per upper floor, including finishes for every single apartment, plumbing and electrical Haiwezekani kabisa. I think these guys low ball the bid then when construction starts they say "pesa imeisha" and ask for more and more and more each stage. Was also thinking the same. Idea being once you commit to them, they will keep pulling surprises at every stage For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,097 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee.Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 671 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee. Woow!! 
Life is joy, death is peace, but the transition is very difficult.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee. Sithole manenos punda amecheka
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/25/2015 Posts: 839 Location: Kite
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newfarer wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee. Sithole manenos Such things don't happen where citizens are licensed to carry big Guns!
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/1/2019 Posts: 170 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee. And this is why I will never get into real estate development... happy to pay the premium and get completed units and live my life peacefully... without having to engage in monkey business
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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NewMoney wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Can you get an occupancy certificate while construction is ongoing?
Vituvingisana, This is Kenya. Whether you follow the rules or not. NCA and the County will always come for their pound of flesh. I am sure you have seen so many half finished apartment buildings fully occupied all over Kenya. At least I am going for all approvals. Others do not even bother. Be careful. These guys can come down hard. Yes bro. Hawa watu ni majambazi. Last time I complied kapsaa with every jot and tittle in the law thinking niko safe. Wapi? First the County guys came and carted off my fundis saying reflectors were not proper size na kadhalika. Then NCA guys drove in at top speed and shut the site down a few months later saying foremen was not on a properly balanced scaffold and was thus endangering his life and the life of others as well. You simply cannot win against jambazis, as you know. If they come and say the keying on your wall is not 100% straight huwezi jibu kitu. You already know what they want na hawatoki mpaka ulipe ushuru ndio wajitegemee. And this is why I will never get into real estate development... happy to pay the premium and get completed units and live my life peacefully... without having to engage in monkey business True but you will be paying double cost. My mistake was to refuse to pay the "upfront taxes" at the time of approvals as recommended by architect. Thats why they landed on me like a ton of bricks. Its like being stopped by a cop for no reason on the road. Will you stick to your super high moral principles and risk weekend ndani being munched by lice among beady eyed mahabusu or pay your due taxes and continue with your safari? This is Kenya, most people just want to avoid the inconvenience. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. Our in-house architect @A4architect had covered this topic of costs exhaustively a while back. His lower figure was 15K/sqm for basic finishes. It is possible your guys aren't wrong.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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FRM2011 wrote:amorphous wrote:Just got a quote from a contractor as follows: Plot size necessary for apartments : 1/8th Total plinth approx 1300 sqm 16 units of 2br @ 70 sqm each construction period: 50 weeks Total cost 15,600,000 meaning 12k per sqm! Is this possible or am I dealing with a con company The final design (wish I could upload) looks very nice! In fact if this is true I want to get started immediately. Our in-house architect @A4architect had covered this topic of costs exhaustively a while back. His lower figure was 15K/sqm for basic finishes. It is possible your guys aren't wrong. 15k and up per sqm makes more sense for extremely bare bones finishes. I was looking at medium level finishes thats why 12k per sqm is a ridiculous figure. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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 A small question. How do these owners of multiple flats dispose their waste given sewer line is a myth in much of the suburbs of Nairobi? Ordinary septic? I would imagine that would need an exhauster almost every week ama? I hope they do not dump their waste on the streets or nearby rivers! Age and family mellows us all over time
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