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Thika Road Expansion was a Mistake
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Ephy wrote:By the time they think of a railway,the economic activities on thika road will have increased,then there will be more cars,people and goods..so a railway link is MANDATORY. Well said! Thika will grow and grow and grow. And soon, we will need 12 lanes at 50 Billion in 2015. If you build a rail network now, it becomes a viable option of travel for now and the future. Railways are dominant modes of travel in China and India, as in most developed countries. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,907
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@mukiha, kudos for radical thinking and restraint. @yekeyeke in a crass manner shows how emotive human beings are.
Hence a rational solution must be adapted to cater for aspirational needs of the citizens; even though in doing it, it may make the solution less effecient.
I agree with @simonkabz most though; the problem may be we are looking at an either/or situation. The Chinese are just doing a good job. If Sheltam had done the same with RVR, we'd be all the merrier.
And a little tax here, and a little subsidy there, would leave @yekeyeke and the rest of us with freedom of choice. @mukiha, we'd arrive at your decision, but we'd be left happy believing we are smart for arriving there.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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@mukiha, I see your point and it has merit but I disagree that it was a mistake. Road expansion on Kenyan pre-1960 roads (not only Thika rd.) is long overdue. Train and air transport should also come in but as alternative modes not to replace road transport. I think the emulate the SA model.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,582
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So who will give birth to (or from where)will these people who will make Thika "grow and grow and grow" come from? What of the real estate expansion will it drive Nairobi City rents up or down? if down what will happen to property prices? will they follow? I think the net effect will be a diffusion of sorts and general ease of traffic around Nairobi Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2008 Posts: 345
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All of you contributors who support railway are very very ignorant. The govenment did its reserch and i do not make any apologies for my contributions. 2nd world war is very relevant today. Why dont you read wikipedia to see my point na mwache mdomo mingi. someni hi link ama mkae. http://www.afdb.org/file...IKA-HIGHWAY-PROJECT.PDF Mukiha:- Here is the interstate link. Jisomee, Juamulia, Jijilie. http://en.wikipedia.org/...nterstate_Highway_System
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/6/2008 Posts: 632
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This is interesting to see the divergent views on infrastructure. I can support both views and what we need to understand both sides. This advantages are it will definitely create a lot of jobs during the construction and commissioning of the phases as well as the jobs that will spring up in the stations vicinity.People will also save time using the train as well as accident costs will be greatly reduced and not forgetting the effect it will have on the environment through less emissions..Other factors will be increment of the area's competitive edge and development of small and medium size enterprises. Now how safe will this trains be?, the affordability, frequency of trips, loss or personal space,overcrowding,reliability,incentives to stop using cars for the train, transport to and from the stations, parking at the station,frequency of trips,which would be the best route(feasibility vis a vis population) etc etc..I think when the govt was faced with all this IF's then i can see why they chose the "SAFER" option and expand the existing highway. What i know the govt has some serious smart lads lets give them the credit they deserve!! i am not saying the issues raised here are not valid just that it's important to look at both sides of the spectrum every once in a while and also let's not forget the govt usually has data/info that we may not usually have/understand!!
The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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yekeyeke, what is wrong with u? moving on a one way train can carry upto 25 carriages to the minimum. 100 per carriage makes it 2500 pple per trip. the maximum time to thika is 25 minutes. how about ten trains? in germany the most used modes are trains and bicycles. how abt that. LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 153 Location: FU
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You can't start running before you can walk.
Now Kenyans want railway lines.. Let us be serious here.
The problem with Kenya is poor infrastructure.
The most basic infrastructure is
1. Roads,
2. Telephones,
3. Sewage system, and
4. Water
Please before you start coming up with great ideas about railways, broadband access, vision 2030 cities, you need to fix these problems first.
who said people will move to thika road? will you live in an area with no water, no sewage system? If you do, don't complain.
While I agree that a railway line is a good thing, let us not forget the basic tenants of economics.
Without good roads, and I mean even donkey roads, you are going nowhere first.
So before you all start shouting "the gov't is stupid" ( a common kenyan habit), be glad that at long last you will have something the world can consider to be a ROAD.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2,436
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Plse, accept we are very poor in railway management! Let us not even consider other forms of mass-transportation systems! Like the maglev trains, trams,etc.we have far too many power black-outs taking place you dont want that to suddenly happen when your train is at 180km/h...
Didn't we stupidly give that useless S.African Roy Puffet - a guy with no proven expertise in large-scale projects, leave alone even railways itself - to turnround a moribund Kenya Railways (itself another failure)? How many NEW kms of railway network have we added after what the Indian coolies did in 19OOs? Zit it is.
And where are the locomotives for use on the railway line to come from, when every now and then the temptation is great to raid our railway museums and cajole the decaying steam machines back to the century-old tracks? We can't afford new locomotives engines - except 1 or 2, and then we repaint the carriages in new RVR livery and say we have a new railway line!
Truth is what we need are mass-transportation systems - but we have neither the financial nor management wherewithal to make it a reality. So lets us stick to roads, where our success varies from road to road.
Lets make long-life ones like the German autobahns, or learn the art of maintaining roads and nt wait till potholes to appear like we now do but not undertake the outrageously expensive ones like the 6-km Mbagathi Rd that cost in excess of KShs 90M per km and 2 yrs to complete.
Thika Rd carries abt 70,000 vehicles per day.
Of course expanding it is prudent when viewed from a long term planning horizon, and so long as those roundabouts - so called traffic islands which are the main cause of jams on Msa Rd-are not built. Then the contractors have to plan the construction well so that there is minimum interruption.
Methinks a road is better because it leads to development of many more feeder roads that link up to the main road compared to a railway one, thus ensuring accessibility & dev of surrounding regions.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/12/2007 Posts: 75
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I agree and disagree with Mukiha.
DISAGREE: For instance, Nairobi road network today was built when it had a population of less than 500K. Incidentally, the rail system was efficient . The population has since exploded to beyond 3M yet the road and rail network have largely remained unchanged, not to mention that the latter ceased to operate due to reasons I do not need to document.
Road network expansion, including housing, health, educational facilities etc. must move in tandem with population growth. If the population grows by 1M, the above services have to be expanded to cater for the growth.
AGREE: Investment in alternative modes of transport should be prioritised in equal measure. Rail system is much cheaper, both for passenger and cargo. For example, it costs less to transport a container from Mombasa to Nairobi on rail than a truck. Sorry to say, but a truck carrying one container is like a boda boda with one passenger. On a broader view, rather than going for bigger scale and better efficiency, smaller capacity has been embraced.
From experience, "park and ride" systems work if well managed. By improving the rail system, the need to use cars will diminish.
I regularly leave my car at home to take a mat to town cum other destinations because of heavy traffic, parking shortage etc. However, some close friends cannot contemplate how one can opt for public means.
The mindset of Kenyans will only change once they see it works.
I rest my case. The stone throwing can begin.
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Thika Road Expansion was a Mistake
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