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Why I reject the BBI
Amores
#61 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:19:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
Lolest! wrote:
I don't see how Ruto would lose if these BB proposals are effected

He has campaigned for presidency- the directly elected one- and BB still has the same with executive power and with a PM that the president can fire

Away from the fixation with the executive, I think that part for counties is the biggest plus in this report. 35% allocation is mzuri sana. Central government needs to release all intra county roads to our devolved units


on allocation, can be good but the issue is on oversight . The only recommendation worth mentioning is where they say "Strengthen the office of the Auditor General, which should be devolved to oversee Counties’ accounts and to report them in an accessible and simple way"

The auditor general is doing this and reporting but the mouths are too full na kukula to notice!

This is why I think punguza mizigo was wanjiku sensitive
I am happy
Taurrus
#62 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:47:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 839
Location: Kite
Africans amaze me,how we go about solving our problems! The most important thing Punguza Mzigo is NOT mentioned anywhere in this BBI doc and almost everyone ni mzuri Sana, very sad.
Taurrus
#63 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:54:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 839
Location: Kite
Wacha losers be, ati it's all about taking care of losers ndio wasilete fujo! Watu wamedaganywa tena!
murchr
#64 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:35:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Another lie filled with fanfare. What a waste of resources.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Thitifini
#65 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:52:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
I still don't see the reasoning behind the PM and DPMs. They can just confuse governance like the CAS things.

Furthermore, it seems like a copy of Uganda's governance structure. Btw, I just learnt tge name of UG PM today. Already have forgotten it.

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
tycho
#66 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:52:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The methodology is incomplete. So far we only have a list of apparently random proposals that haven't been analyzed or tested by simulation. For example, the issue of 'morality' and 'culture' or a minister of religion...

A simple simulation of these ideas and even that of the PM leaves me wondering if this committee was in charge of creating a farce.

On the other hand I like the idealism and desire for greatness. The idea of being a global power is really welcome. The desire to build on traditional based knowledge is also great.

But on the whole, I think this presentation is raw and hurried. It doesn't even solve any of the problems it set out to resolve.

I can't back it as it is.
FRM2011
#67 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 9:16:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459

This is the link to the report.

https://www.bbi.go.ke

It is 156 pages.

I can't comment because I haven't read it.

I know none of the wazuans have read it.

Stop commenting until you read it.
aemathenge
#68 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 9:20:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Amores wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
I don't see how Ruto would lose if these BB proposals are effected

He has campaigned for presidency- the directly elected one- and BB still has the same with executive power and with a PM that the president can fire

Away from the fixation with the executive, I think that part for counties is the biggest plus in this report. 35% allocation is mzuri sana. Central government needs to release all intra county roads to our devolved units


on allocation, can be good but the issue is on oversight . The only recommendation worth mentioning is where they say "Strengthen the office of the Auditor General, which should be devolved to oversee Counties’ accounts and to report them in an accessible and simple way"

The auditor general is doing this and reporting but the mouths are too full na kukula to notice!


This is why I think punguza mizigo was wanjiku sensitive


I couldn't agree more.

As the cliche goes, things on the ground are different.

Take the following for example:

Quote:
The Treasury has singled out the 15 counties for punishment after they failed to clear pending bills in a circular issued on November 22.

The 15 are Narok, Machakos, Nairobi, Vihiga, Isiolo, Tana River, Migori, Tharaka Nithi, Bomet, Kirinyaga, Nandi, Mombasa, Kiambu, Garissa and Baringo counties.

The 15 failed to pay any of their pending bills between July and October occasioning the move by Treasury to stop their funds disbursements.

The Treasury has asked Parliament to approve its decision stopping the release of funds to 15 counties for failure to clear Sh22.71 billion in pending bills.

National Assembly Speaker Justin Muturi directed the Budget and Appropriations Committee (BAC) to speedily consider the request by the Treasury to freeze the transfer of funds from next month.

Business owners have accused national and county government departments of delaying payments to suppliers worth more than Sh150 billion, forcing them to cut back on operations, shed jobs and keep pay stagnant.


Source: https://www.businessdail...302-10j36sfz/index.html
Amores
#69 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:27:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
Thitifini wrote:
I still don't see the reasoning behind the PM and DPMs. They can just confuse governance like the CAS things.

Furthermore, it seems like a copy of Uganda's governance structure. Btw, I just learnt tge name of UG PM today. Already have forgotten it.


There are no DPMs


" The President shall be elected through universal suffrage. For a candidate to be declared the winner of the presidential election, he or she must win 50% + 1 of the presidential votesand at least 25% of the votes cast in each of more than half of the Counties, as is now the case. The President will remain the Head of State andGovernment,Commander-in-Chief,andbe the central symbol of national unity. He shall chair the Cabinet that compromises the Deputy President, the Prime Minister, and Cabinet Ministers. The Taskforce has called for the retaining of the present two-term limit of presidential terms"


There is a PM who is like a super CS. Doesn't address the winner takes it all issue which is what we were told we needed to address. I still believe a loser should accept and move on .

Then there is issue that even though the PM has to be approved by parliament, president can fire the PM. What a useless recommendation.

I have a feeling these guys sensed vile vitu ziko kwa ground ( people want the mzigo punguzwad)and edited the document.
I am happy
Lolest!
#70 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 12:47:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
FRM2011 wrote:

This is the link to the report.

https://www.bbi.go.ke

It is 156 pages.

I can't comment because I haven't read it.

I know none of the wazuans have read it.

Stop commenting until you read it.

Since you haven't read, none of us has readLaughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
kaka2za
#71 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 1:01:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
I don't get this 'winner takes all' talk.

So should a losing football teams earn one point while the winner gets two instead of all three?

What we need is equitable distribution of resources not sharing positions.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
FRM2011
#72 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:10:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Lolest! wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

This is the link to the report.

https://www.bbi.go.ke

It is 156 pages.

I can't comment because I haven't read it.

I know none of the wazuans have read it.

Stop commenting until you read it.

Since you haven't read, none of us has readLaughing out loudly


Outside cyberspace, I am the most politically active wazuan. @jagguernut went quiet after becoming an mp.

Today we were launching chungwa house.

Most wazuans are keyboard warriors who have never attended a political rally let alone sit at the dias.

To imagine any of them have sacrificed 3 hours to read the BBI report is being too gracious.
FRM2011
#73 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:16:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
kaka2za wrote:
I don't get this 'winner takes all' talk.

So should a losing football teams earn one point while the winner gets two instead of all three?

What we need is equitable distribution of resources not sharing positions.


The lamu governor got 60,000 votes. The government provides him with vehicles, security for his family and home and all the trappings of power.

Rao got 6M votes. The current constitution says he should go home. It is like telling those 6M voters to go to hell. Ruto will get at least 3M in 2022. BBI has proposed an office for the leader of opposition funded by the taxpayer. The millions who vote for the runner-up should feel their voice was heard.
harrydre
#74 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:27:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
Lolest! wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

This is the link to the report.

https://www.bbi.go.ke

It is 156 pages.

I can't comment because I haven't read it.

I know none of the wazuans have read it.

Stop commenting until you read it.

Since you haven't read, none of us has readLaughing out loudly


Baba will read it for us.
i.am.back!!!!
Wakanyugi
#75 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:28:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Why does Kenya's leadership initiatives have to be about political positioning and elections. Why can't we one day have a national dialogue to address Food security or universal healthcare or education for all, how about discussing unemployment and youth capacity building.

I am depressed, I hope this document never see the light of day. It has got no content for ordinary Kenyans.


This is a stich-up, similar to the one Moi tried with the Uhuru succession.

Apparently the solution to our'winner take all' governance problem is to allow the elite Houses a bite at the pie of leadership, preferably each in turn as they tend to fight when they are forced to share the trough. Last time it was the Kenyattas, this time it is the Odingas (the Mois are not considered of Royal enough blood, the Ruto's can only look on and salivate. Kenya kweli ina wenyewe). Unfortunately if Rao does not win President or PM with this arrangement, we shall be back to square zero.

I must say I am under-whelemed too. At least they have re-firmed the importance of a well funded opposition, including a shadow cabinet. That to me is the true solution to the winner take all problem.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#76 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:41:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Lolest! wrote:
I don't see how Ruto would lose if these BB proposals are effected

He has campaigned for presidency- the directly elected one- and BB still has the same with executive power and with a PM that the president can fire

Away from the fixation with the executive, I think that part for counties is the biggest plus in this report. 35% allocation is mzuri sana. Central government needs to release all intra county roads to our devolved units



35%, 50%, 120%...did anybody listen to Mudavadi?

Essentially what he said is 'it is the economy stupid.' If we can't figure out a way to make Counties revenue generating, rather than the cost centers they are today, there will be nothing to share. Federalism is expensive as Kenyans are beginning to learn. Vacuous commitments to address gender equity, fairness, historical injustice, marginalisation etc are all well and good as long as someone else is paying the bill. Our current crop of politicians would like us to believe that we can have it all. We can't. This where I relay miss Kibaki with all his weaknesses.

I wish they has spent the 10B on an economic commission instead of this mutual feel good repeat crap.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
murchr
#77 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 4:16:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Amores wrote:
Thitifini wrote:
I still don't see the reasoning behind the PM and DPMs. They can just confuse governance like the CAS things.

Furthermore, it seems like a copy of Uganda's governance structure. Btw, I just learnt tge name of UG PM today. Already have forgotten it.


There are no DPMs


" The President shall be elected through universal suffrage. For a candidate to be declared the winner of the presidential election, he or she must win 50% + 1 of the presidential votesand at least 25% of the votes cast in each of more than half of the Counties, as is now the case. The President will remain the Head of State andGovernment,Commander-in-Chief,andbe the central symbol of national unity. He shall chair the Cabinet that compromises the Deputy President, the Prime Minister, and Cabinet Ministers. The Taskforce has called for the retaining of the present two-term limit of presidential terms"


There is a PM who is like a super CS. Doesn't address the winner takes it all issue which is what we were told we needed to address. I still believe a loser should accept and move on .

Then there is issue that even though the PM has to be approved by parliament, president can fire the PM. What a useless recommendation.

I have a feeling these guys sensed vile vitu ziko kwa ground ( people want the mzigo punguzwad)and edited the document.



There are no DPMs but I was hanging out with muheshimiwas yesterday and one mentioned that he will push for it. Apparently, the leader of opposition cannot be a stand alone candidate yet he had a running mate during the election. The process is just a political process sharing positions tu. Wanjiku aendelee kusyaga meno.

Ruto should oppose this thing and we run with it. Am beginning to think Uhuru is totally useless
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tom_boy
#78 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 4:22:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
murchr wrote:
Amores wrote:
Thitifini wrote:
I still don't see the reasoning behind the PM and DPMs. They can just confuse governance like the CAS things.

Furthermore, it seems like a copy of Uganda's governance structure. Btw, I just learnt tge name of UG PM today. Already have forgotten it.


There are no DPMs


" The President shall be elected through universal suffrage. For a candidate to be declared the winner of the presidential election, he or she must win 50% + 1 of the presidential votesand at least 25% of the votes cast in each of more than half of the Counties, as is now the case. The President will remain the Head of State andGovernment,Commander-in-Chief,andbe the central symbol of national unity. He shall chair the Cabinet that compromises the Deputy President, the Prime Minister, and Cabinet Ministers. The Taskforce has called for the retaining of the present two-term limit of presidential terms"


There is a PM who is like a super CS. Doesn't address the winner takes it all issue which is what we were told we needed to address. I still believe a loser should accept and move on .

Then there is issue that even though the PM has to be approved by parliament, president can fire the PM. What a useless recommendation.

I have a feeling these guys sensed vile vitu ziko kwa ground ( people want the mzigo punguzwad)and edited the document.



There are no DPMs but I was hanging out with muheshimiwas yesterday and one mentioned that he will push for it. Apparently, the leader of opposition cannot be a stand alone candidate yet he had a running mate during the election. The process is just a political process sharing positions tu. Wanjiku aendelee kusyaga meno.

Ruto should oppose this thing and we run with it. Am beginning to think Uhuru is totally useless



Uhuru has always been totally useless. Even this BBI is totally useless. The cartels are the leaders themselves, hii yote ni kutufunga macho
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
murchr
#79 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 4:24:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
We copied the American version of constitution, where the loser goes home. Can you imagine if Hillary Clinton would be pushing to be in govt because she feels that the election showrd she has a "constituency"? The only problem with the political class is that they believe life should revolve around them,Kenya can only prosper if they are well catered for with power.

I did not hear any mention of Wanjiku apart from that she dies when politicians fight
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
murchr
#80 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 4:33:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
FRM2011 wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
I don't get this 'winner takes all' talk.

So should a losing football teams earn one point while the winner gets two instead of all three?

What we need is equitable distribution of resources not sharing positions.


The lamu governor got 60,000 votes. The government provides him with vehicles, security for his family and home and all the trappings of power.

Rao got 6M votes. The current constitution says he should go home. It is like telling those 6M voters to go to hell. Ruto will get at least 3M in 2022. BBI has proposed an office for the leader of opposition funded by the taxpayer. The millions who vote for the runner-up should feel their voice was heard.



Hillary Clinton got more votes than Trump but she obeyed the constitution went home and doesn't disturb anyone. Baba should do the same, the 6m can vote otherwise in subsequent elections. We need to take a loss as an opportunity to reevaluate and realign. Its not a right to be elected, its the choice of the people to elect or not to
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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