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Billionaires shouldn't exist
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:2012 wrote:In my opinion, billionaires should exist. There should be no limit set on human achievement. Granted, there are thieves and rogue elements in society but these people exist through all segments, the poor steal each others chicken while the reach rob each other of tenders, business and our taxes. But I think the greatest achievers should be well rewarded else we will kill the concept of human endeavor for people who have the biggest dreams to aspire to, the likes of John D. Rockefeller and many others today. There are always ethical, social and even temporal limits to human achievement. In this case let's consider the ethical limits. It is wrong for governments to favor a few people at the expense of the many who are deceived that they are the powers behind government. Consider contexts where children are the pickpockets of choice, why do we not say that we shouldn't limit their expertise? Ok, let's forget the crooks who get wealth they haven't worked for. Now my believe is that for you to be extremely wealthy, self-made, then you either do it in one of two ways, you own a product or service that people really want or you manipulate the system ie find loopholes in the system and manipulate. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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tycho wrote:The sad thing is that we may have forgotten that all these billions happen in a political context that assumes equality of rights and sovereignty, and that is guided by 'the promise of politics' where diversity of interests finds a fair division of costs and benefits. To state that I insist on strictly equal division of resources, is to misunderstand my position. My idea is more on fair division given truly autonomous choice. And by autonomous choice I mean all calculated options that a human may take to optimize between the unconscious and the conscious. I am speaking as a humanist. https://www.theguardian....e-capitalists-communism
Good article. However, the author conveniently ignores the fact that democratic socialism in Western Europe is/was only tenable when the British and French colonized Africa. The average British and French worker has always led an above-average lifestyle due to exploitation of Africa colonies and pseudo-colonies. In his book titled "Animal Farm", George Orwell toys with the idea of an equitable society but also concedes that in social democratic systems there must exist a first among equals or if you like, there must exist a leader/leaders/ruling class/politics. The leaders must wield power to be able to lead and thus the hoarding and accumulation/control of capital.The hierarchical structure of human social systems and to greater extent Mammalia social systems ensures that there can never be equality. e.g., the Male lion will always eat first and will eat the choice parts of a Buffalo e.g., the liver, the tender loins etc. Personally, i don't see a resolution in the near future to the problem you have raised in this thread. In my view, capitalism still has a long way to go before it evolves to something else. The concept of Matthew effect still holds. Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@2012, I'd like to hazard the following assertion: It is impossible to be a billionaire by simply providing what people need at a price, and without taking advantage of loopholes in government and society.
On the other hand, I'd like you to share some names of billionaires who break this rule.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Fyatu, I understand that elitist theories exist. In fact if you probe you'll find thinkers who say that these elites are either 'Lions' or 'Jackals'. These titles tell you the kind of attitudes exist regarding power and social relations. They are based on fear and cunning. Both of which are immoral if we are to consider each individual being at their best or optimal.
If we track the population growth of educated individuals per body politic over a span of say 100 years, will we arrive at the conclusion that the number of elites has been constant? The more the elites, the more systems are required to change. History is witness that the world wasn't born 'capitalist'.
Elitist theories also talk about different kinds of elites in a society. Not all elites are billionaires. By the Renaissance period, it was common knowledge that nobility wasn't even conferred by wealth, but rather by virtue.
In my opinion, what is happening is that most of us have never expected that the world can change so drastically while they are still alive. The sad news is that most of the knowledge we are carrying has already gone bad, stay with it longer, and you'll rot with it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:@2012, I'd like to hazard the following assertion: It is impossible to be a billionaire by simply providing what people need at a price, and without taking advantage of loopholes in government and society.
On the other hand, I'd like you to share some names of billionaires who break this rule. A few from the top of my head, Oprah Winfrey, J.K. Rowling Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Kenyan: Narendra Raval, SK. Macharia. All I'm saying is that the thought of us or our children believing that you cannot make your dreams come true through honest means would be sad. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:tycho wrote:@2012, I'd like to hazard the following assertion: It is impossible to be a billionaire by simply providing what people need at a price, and without taking advantage of loopholes in government and society.
On the other hand, I'd like you to share some names of billionaires who break this rule. A few from the top of my head, Oprah Winfrey, J.K. Rowling Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Kenyan: Narendra Raval, SK. Macharia. All I'm saying is that the thought of us or our children believing that you cannot make your dreams come true through honest means would be sad. Please check out some from this list or else dispute Mazzucato's claim. But I want to simplify the evidence to this list. That will take some days, but no haste.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I am back, @2012 First, to my surprise, my odds of being a billionaire are higher than I expected. I was groomed since childhood, I passed adolescence with my script safe, by 25 I had laid the foundations of 'my greatness'. And I am in more agreement with my father  There are only a few moves to go, and inshallah, I am likely to join the billionaires club. But still on the other hand, I am convinced that being of an exclusive economic class and having more wealth than others is immoral and unethical. For this I will turn to Dienes's idea of 'Psychological wealth' and Plato's Republic as key evidence along with other aspects of reason and truth, and of course, the general trend in history. Moreover, my assertion that billionairehood entails crookedness, of price and social responsibility stands.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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My investigation has used the ULES - Unsupervised Learning and Exhaustive Search method. This is a method entailing following key words to find relevant text. Doing quantitative and qualitative analyses increases the chain of investigation through emergent questions and leads. This is repeated till the search is exhausted by going through all result pages, and both pro and anti positions are sufficiently presented.
I have also conducted interviews on entrepreneur friends - though probably not extensively enough.
Then the drudgery of tabulation, synthesis - Bloom's treatment - and then iterative application of the different thinking and experimentation styles. In this case mental experiments abound.
I started with Rowling, then went for Oprah. I then sought Vimal Shah and Tabitha Karanja. After that I went back to Zuckerberg ...
There is previous research by Jonathan Wai which saved me plenty of time. I then used the same method above for the great scientists. I looked at the chain from Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Schrödinger and Feynman among others. (I should check on the women too - I know Ada, and several ladies but I need to check again of course).
After processing using the formulae above I went back for the billionaires. I looked at Kenya, S.A, Egypt, Nigeria. Then Britain, Japan, and Jamaica. The rest were dealt with sufficiently by Wai.
In all this I was looking for several things, but of immediate relevance is if each of these individuals violated pricing and social justice.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The main argument given for the validity of the billionaire class is given by Gregory Mankiw, a Havard prof who wrote 'In defence of the 1%'.
In this paper, Mankiw posits that billionaires earn their money justly from their respective marginal productivity.
Firstly, marginal productivity isn't easily and objectively determined. For example a book written by Rowling under a pseudonym won't be priced the same way if the name Rowling is on the cover.
Besides, does marginal productivity increase or decrease with time? Do prices reflect expected change accordingly? In my estimation MP is supposed to decrease, other factors held constant.
Again, accumulation of wealth necessarily means the use of surplus value for capital investment. Where does surplus value arise if all are paid 'by their deserts?'
Some of the answers to these questions are given by Didier Jacobs of Oxfam, in his 'Extreme wealth is unmerited'. In this work we are shown the ladder that makes for the billionaire class. The ladder is made of crime, cronyism, inheritance, monopoly, globalization and technology. In this case, the higher you go, the more the crime is sanitized.
For instance, Mankiw alludes to the unequal distribution of wealth in the US since 1970 due to uneven skills development. But think of how these skills are researched on and distributed within a population. The rich take their children to elite schools and prescribe lesser education for the masses. Just like in our new CBC curriculum.
The social organization needed to prop the mythology of price and economics is steeped in falsehood and false promises.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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I expect to join the billionaire class sometime in my life by making something useful that a lot of people will enjoy. I see no immorality in it. What's the difference between that and Eliud Kipchoge's record? Both involve a high discipline, lots of self sacrifice and creating a lot more value not just for yourself and others. If you don't want to dream big, give the floor to those who are daring enough to go and make it happen.
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