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Akirinyaga Secession from Agikuyu
Lolest!
#21 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 4:43:49 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Wakanyugi
#22 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 4:51:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


The Gikuyu tribe is a fairly recent creation, a conglomeration of different people who arrived in the present day Nyeri Valley from different directions at different times.

Professor Godfrey Muriuki writes of several migration waves:

(i) One of the earliest, from the Coast, up the Tana and Athi, the Thagicu wave, traceable to present day Tanga in Tanzania.

(iii) One coming from the Kamba, the Ithanga wave, traceable to Mwing/Kitui area.

(iii) A more recent one from the Meru/Embu, the Meru/Mbeere wave, which created the Ndia (Kirinyaga) sub community.

(iv) A yet more recent wave (if you can call it that) is the massive migration of Laikipiak Masai into Northern Gikuyuland which followed the decimation of that clan in the Murijo civil war. Many Nyeri people have Gikuyunised Masai names as a result.

It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.

This too shall pass.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Lolest!
#23 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 5:04:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Wakanyugi wrote:
It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.


It's politics yes but a different type.

The need to be classified as a minority to access appointments..

A social/cultural need for their language to survive. If govt says mother tongue should be taught in primary schools, why should it be 'standard' Gikuyu?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
radiomast
#24 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 6:21:08 PM
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Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen

kaka2za
#25 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 11:50:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen



That language is as close to Kikuyu as it is to any other Bantu language.It sounds more like kinyarwanda
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Wakanyugi
#26 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 1:02:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Lolest! wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.


It's politics yes but a different type.

The need to be classified as a minority to access appointments..


The benefits from ethnic fragmentation are so slim as to be virtually worthless. Before you can convince anyone that Kirinyagans are a minority deserving of special consideration, you would have to jump so many hoops as to be dizzy.

The better bet is the exact opposite strategy. Swelling the population of Kirinyaga County, by encouraging migration from elsewhere (the only demographic boosting option available in Central). Then you can demand all sorts of special considerations.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
masukuma
#27 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 12:47:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#28 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 1:28:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen


the most interesting thing that i noticed is that people think a group of people were "moving" in like large numbers and going somewhere. no... it's very similar to what people in mashambani do now... encroaching on others territory a family at a time. maybe wars, hunger and diseases speed up movement but generally - it's a family at a time deciding to live on the edge of where others live and their kids move further e.t.c. slowly over 10s, hundreds of years a new group shows up somewhere further. an influential person has a lisp and his children think thats how words are pronounced. a guy is unable to pronounce 'batu' but says 'watu' and newer kids think that's how it's pronounced. small changes over time accumulate to create a new group of people.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Njunge
#29 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 8:18:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.



Tried to listen to that and I am wondering if Sonjo and Segenju one and same. I in acted with a Segenju and by Jo's, those fellows are our cousins kapsa. My history is limited but the little I gathered is that Thagicu = Segenju.
kaka2za
#30 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 5:28:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
2012
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 8:28:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
A group of Kirinyaga elders have moved to court seeking to have Kirinyaga people(Akirinyaga) recognized as Kenya's 45th tribe and not Kikuyus.

Fair enough, I say. I always wondered why when discussing who Kikuyus are and their original homelands, we only hear of Murang'a, Nyeri & Kiambu.


As much as I don't care much about tribe I know this is a bad move for them politically. Their intermarriage with Kikuyus has reduced their numbers significantly but maybe they could join GEMA as GEMAK.

BBI will solve it
:)
Gathige
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 1:36:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
kaka2za
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 3:40:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.


All those except the Azande are Eastern Nilotic speakers. Azande have mixed ancestry and their language is Congo-Niger;neither Bantu nor Nilotic.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#34 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 4:02:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.


All those except the Azande are Eastern Nilotic speakers. Azande have mixed ancestry and their language is Congo-Niger;neither Bantu nor Nilotic.

Boss... Bantu is a branch of "Congo-Niger"

All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#35 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 5:07:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.


All those except the Azande are Eastern Nilotic speakers. Azande have mixed ancestry and their language is Congo-Niger;neither Bantu nor Nilotic.

Boss... Bantu is a branch of "Congo-Niger"



True. Bantus are a branch of Congo-Niger but not all under that large grouping are Bantus. As earlier stated the Zande have mixed ancestry. Generally ,Bantus avoid Northern areas probably because there are hotter.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#36 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 7:12:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.


All those except the Azande are Eastern Nilotic speakers. Azande have mixed ancestry and their language is Congo-Niger;neither Bantu nor Nilotic.

Boss... Bantu is a branch of "Congo-Niger"



True. Bantus are a branch of Congo-Niger but not all under that large grouping are Bantus. As earlier stated the Zande have mixed ancestry. Generally ,Bantus avoid Northern areas probably because there are hotter.

nope... they couldn't break through the nilotic belt!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#37 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 1:32:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?


The Bantus are Mob in South Sudan. They include the Zande, Bari speakers ( Kuku, Kakwa, Bari , Baka, Baranda etc). Mostly spread accross the Equatorial regions ( except those bordering Northern Kenya and Rift Valley tip who are more of the cushiness) The Zandes look like Kikuyus and lighter than the rest.


All those except the Azande are Eastern Nilotic speakers. Azande have mixed ancestry and their language is Congo-Niger;neither Bantu nor Nilotic.

Boss... Bantu is a branch of "Congo-Niger"



True. Bantus are a branch of Congo-Niger but not all under that large grouping are Bantus. As earlier stated the Zande have mixed ancestry. Generally ,Bantus avoid Northern areas probably because there are hotter.

nope... they couldn't break through the nilotic belt!


Really? Kikuyus managed to displace Maasais from most areas in present Central Province /Central Rift while Kisiis managed to break the Nilotic belt in Nyanza and South Rift.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
radiomast
#38 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 4:40:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
kaka2za wrote:


Really? Kikuyus managed to displace Maasais from most areas in present Central Province /Central Rift while Kisiis managed to break the Nilotic belt in Nyanza and South Rift.


Kisiis were already in Nyanza before Luos arrived. I am not sure what you mean by saying Kisiis broke the nilotic belt in South Rift.
Wakanyugi
#39 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 4:51:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
radiomast wrote:
kaka2za wrote:


Really? Kikuyus managed to displace Maasais from most areas in present Central Province /Central Rift while Kisiis managed to break the Nilotic belt in Nyanza and South Rift.


Kisiis were already in Nyanza before Luos arrived. I am not sure what you mean by saying Kisiis broke the nilotic belt in South Rift.



Not quite. For more than 100 years, the Masai protected the hinterland of East Africa from Ottoman and Arabic slave raiders. The thing that did the Masai in were a) riderpest and b) the Masai themselves, through internecine civil war.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Sansa
#40 Posted : Monday, September 09, 2019 5:31:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 344
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen



I don't know how you guys are hearing kikuyu here. It sounds closer to meru mixed with sound I hear from maasai.
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