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Akirinyaga Secession from Agikuyu
Lolest!
#21 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 4:43:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?
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Wakanyugi
#22 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 4:51:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


The Gikuyu tribe is a fairly recent creation, a conglomeration of different people who arrived in the present day Nyeri Valley from different directions at different times.

Professor Godfrey Muriuki writes of several migration waves:

(i) One of the earliest, from the Coast, up the Tana and Athi, the Thagicu wave, traceable to present day Tanga in Tanzania.

(iii) One coming from the Kamba, the Ithanga wave, traceable to Mwing/Kitui area.

(iii) A more recent one from the Meru/Embu, the Meru/Mbeere wave, which created the Ndia (Kirinyaga) sub community.

(iv) A yet more recent wave (if you can call it that) is the massive migration of Laikipiak Masai into Northern Gikuyuland which followed the decimation of that clan in the Murijo civil war. Many Nyeri people have Gikuyunised Masai names as a result.

It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.

This too shall pass.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Lolest!
#23 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 5:04:48 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Wakanyugi wrote:
It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.


It's politics yes but a different type.

The need to be classified as a minority to access appointments..

A social/cultural need for their language to survive. If govt says mother tongue should be taught in primary schools, why should it be 'standard' Gikuyu?
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radiomast
#24 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 6:21:08 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen

kaka2za
#25 Posted : Friday, September 06, 2019 11:50:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen



That language is as close to Kikuyu as it is to any other Bantu language.It sounds more like kinyarwanda
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Wakanyugi
#26 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 1:02:09 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Lolest! wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
It is hard to argue for the Ndia/Kirinyaga as a separate tribe, except in the perpetual effort to splinter the massive Gema vote for political reasons. But then we hear similar arguments made about the Luyia and the Kalejin, mostly from people who have too much time on their hands.


It's politics yes but a different type.

The need to be classified as a minority to access appointments..


The benefits from ethnic fragmentation are so slim as to be virtually worthless. Before you can convince anyone that Kirinyagans are a minority deserving of special consideration, you would have to jump so many hoops as to be dizzy.

The better bet is the exact opposite strategy. Swelling the population of Kirinyaga County, by encouraging migration from elsewhere (the only demographic boosting option available in Central). Then you can demand all sorts of special considerations.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
masukuma
#27 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 12:47:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#28 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 1:28:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.

Listen


the most interesting thing that i noticed is that people think a group of people were "moving" in like large numbers and going somewhere. no... it's very similar to what people in mashambani do now... encroaching on others territory a family at a time. maybe wars, hunger and diseases speed up movement but generally - it's a family at a time deciding to live on the edge of where others live and their kids move further e.t.c. slowly over 10s, hundreds of years a new group shows up somewhere further. an influential person has a lisp and his children think thats how words are pronounced. a guy is unable to pronounce 'batu' but says 'watu' and newer kids think that's how it's pronounced. small changes over time accumulate to create a new group of people.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Njunge
#29 Posted : Saturday, September 07, 2019 8:18:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
radiomast wrote:
When Agikuyu left Mt Kilimanjaro perhaps around 1300 AD , they left behind a small group who are now know as Sonjo. There are 30,000 of them. Their language bears similarities to Gikuyu language.



Tried to listen to that and I am wondering if Sonjo and Segenju one and same. I in acted with a Segenju and by Jo's, those fellows are our cousins kapsa. My history is limited but the little I gathered is that Thagicu = Segenju.
kaka2za
#30 Posted : Sunday, September 08, 2019 5:28:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
hardwood wrote:
masukuma wrote:
interesting discussion... where did the Kikuyu originally come from? since the Kamba, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu and Akirinyaga once had a common heritage - what was the name of these people? the proto"Central" people.


From Congo, the kikuyu immigrated northwards from Mt Kilimanjaro/TZ area to the Mt kenya/aberdares area. The meru are said to have immigrated from the coast up the Tana river to Mt Kenya area and Nyambene hills.

Note that Kikuyus are the northernmost bantus in africa.



There are Bantus in Cameroon which seems to lie more to the North than Kenya.

Thought even Ugandan Bantus areas are generally more north than Kikuyu country

Leave alone across borders, aren't Bukusu lands notth of the equator?

The Meru, isn't their land north east of Kikuyu country?


There are Bantus in South Sudan and that is quite far north.


South Sudan? Who are the Bantus there?
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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