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Ken Okoth,MP Kibra..It shall be well
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:You should understand the importance of those cultural practices (cleansing and wife inheritance) before dismissing them.
After a woman's husband dies, she must engage in sexual intercourse without a condom with a “cleanser,” often a non-relative of the deceased husband, to remove the impurity she is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband. A condom is not used because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during intercourse. The Luo believe that the death of a husband confers impurity upon the widow and restricts her from participating fully in certain social events. Sexual ritual is thus performed to cleanse her and fully reintegrate her into normal community life.
After a widow has been “cleansed,” she is expected to be inherited by a man, traditionally an in-law. Inheritance is important in that the designated male assumes responsibility for the social and economic support of a widow upon the death of her husband.
For a young widow with children, inheritance by a brother or cousin to the husband allows for continued support by her husband’s extended family. Widows without children or with few children are expected by the extended family to bear children, particularly sons, who would continue the lineage of the deceased husband.
Also many women are widowed young, and fulfillment of sexual desire is a major reason for being inherited.
Aside from the initial cleansing ritual, widows, as well as married women, are expected to observe other sexual norms common in the Luo community. For example, they are expected to engage in sexual intercourse during the establishment of a home; during agricultural cycles such as tilling the land, planting, and harvesting; and when participating in the funeral or marriage ceremonies of some relatives. In each of these cases, a widow must find a sexual partner to help her fulfill these required rites. Fulfilling these sexual rituals often means engaging in sex without a condom, because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during sexual intercourse . Women engage in these practices to conform to societal norms or because they are compelled to do so by their husbands’ families, their own families, or the belief that engaging in the tradition will ensure that they or their children will not be ostracized or face illness or other misfortunes (chira).
If a woman does not have a resident partner with whom she can carry out ritual sexual practices, she is expected to look for a man with whom to observe the sexual ritual. An inherited widow can observe this ritual with the inheritor when such occasions arise, but a widow who is not inherited has to seek another man with whom to observe the sexual rituals.
As you can see those practices are important to ensure the welfare of the woman in luo society. What you have written is very good. But as i told you earlier, the same elders didn't guide their son accordingly while he was still alive. Kwani the Elder's council is only useful in death. If theyw ere serious, they would have helped thier 'son' while he was alive to perform prior sites and have a house/home. By the way i am talking from a point of knowlge and see this things in my many villages. Okoth is not the 1st and last married Luo to die without a home. But their are prior rituals performed before we get into the inheritance point which comes much later. Your Elders need to be whipped properly. The elders believed that Ken was still a young man who had time to build a home in the village. But now that tragedy had occurred they had to play their role by giving advice on the way forward. So don't blame the wazee for doing their job. Also I believe that this cremation issue put into disarray the rites that should have happened before, during and after interment. Could this be why cremation was chosen, despite it being basically unknown in the community? As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead. Hizo zingine ni kelele. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Angelica _ann wrote:
As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.
Hizo zingine ni kelele.
A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:
As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.
Hizo zingine ni kelele.
A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal. Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:
As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.
Hizo zingine ni kelele.
A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal. Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously. Elders are knowledgeable in all matters touching on the community and individuals - right from an individuals birth to after his or her death. In the current case, they have only referred to the relevant kipengele in that katiba. If you dont like some contents of that katiba the way to go is ask for a referendum to review hicho vipengele, not rebuking the elders for reading the kipengele to you.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:
As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.
Hizo zingine ni kelele.
A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal. Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously. Elders are knowledgeable in all matters touching on the community and individuals - right from an individuals birth to after his or her death. In the current case, they have only referred to the relevant kipengele in that katiba. If you dont like some contents of that katiba the way to go is ask for a referendum to review hicho vipengele, not rebuking the elders for reading the kipengele to you. There in lies the reason why they FAILED miserably. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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hardwood wrote:Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community.... This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
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Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community.... This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!! What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'? Please translate for Wazooo larger community. John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Spikes wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community.... This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!! What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'? Please translate for Wazooo larger community. @Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
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Angelica _ann wrote:Spikes wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community.... This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!! What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'? Please translate for Wazooo larger community. @Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!! John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Spikes wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:Spikes wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:hardwood wrote:Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community.... This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!! What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'? Please translate for Wazooo larger community. @Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!! She's called them "selfish elders", and she is wrong in her assessment.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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I 100% fully agree with hardwood If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 2,038 Location: GA
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Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Political seats should not be hereditary. What has this okoth brother done for the people and whats his vision to deserve the seat?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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AlphDoti wrote:Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies. Baba may give it to Sifuna. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Gathige wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies. Baba may give it to Sifuna. Baba should take the seat himuselefu. We need him in parliament.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Can't you say anything unless you mention Baba? NOTE: I do not pitch for or against. Just concerned about the obsession of some people
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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AlphDoti wrote:You cannot say anything unless you mention Baba? NOTE: I do not pitch for or against. Just concerned about the obsession of some people Baba= Kibra, Kibra=Baba. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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MacDonald Mariga??? I agree, that was a suave move by JP. It places them right in the Kibra eating table. 60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Ken Okoth,MP Kibra..It shall be well
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