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Ken Okoth,MP Kibra..It shall be well
Angelica _ann
#241 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 12:43:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
You should understand the importance of those cultural practices (cleansing and wife inheritance) before dismissing them.

After a woman's husband dies, she must engage in sexual intercourse without a condom with a “cleanser,” often a non-relative of the deceased husband, to remove the impurity she is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband. A condom is not used because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during intercourse. The Luo believe that the death of a husband confers impurity upon the widow and restricts her from participating fully in certain social events. Sexual ritual is thus performed to cleanse her and fully reintegrate her into normal community life.

After a widow has been “cleansed,” she is expected to be inherited by a man, traditionally an in-law. Inheritance is important in that the designated male assumes responsibility for the social and economic support of a widow upon the death of her husband.

For a young widow with children, inheritance by a brother or cousin to the husband allows for continued support by her husband’s extended family. Widows without children or with few children are expected by the extended family to bear children, particularly sons, who would continue the lineage of the deceased husband.

Also many women are widowed young, and fulfillment of sexual desire is a major reason for being inherited.

Aside from the initial cleansing ritual, widows, as well as married women, are expected to observe other sexual norms common in the Luo community. For example, they are expected to engage in sexual intercourse during the establishment of a home; during agricultural cycles such as tilling the land, planting, and harvesting; and when participating in the funeral or marriage ceremonies of some relatives. In each of these cases, a widow must find a sexual partner to help her fulfill these required rites. Fulfilling these sexual rituals often means engaging in sex without a condom, because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during sexual intercourse . Women engage in these practices to conform to societal norms or because they are compelled to do so by their husbands’ families, their own families, or the belief that engaging in the tradition will ensure that they or their children will not be ostracized or face illness or other misfortunes (chira).

If a woman does not have a resident partner with whom she can carry out ritual sexual practices, she is expected to look for a man with whom to observe the sexual ritual. An inherited widow can observe this ritual with the inheritor when such occasions arise, but a widow who is not inherited has to seek another man with whom to observe the sexual rituals.

As you can see those practices are important to ensure the welfare of the woman in luo society.


What you have written is very good. But as i told you earlier, the same elders didn't guide their son accordingly while he was still alive. Kwani the Elder's council is only useful in death. If theyw ere serious, they would have helped thier 'son' while he was alive to perform prior sites and have a house/home.

By the way i am talking from a point of knowlge and see this things in my many villages. Okoth is not the 1st and last married Luo to die without a home. But their are prior rituals performed before we get into the inheritance point which comes much later.

Your Elders need to be whipped properly.


The elders believed that Ken was still a young man who had time to build a home in the village. But now that tragedy had occurred they had to play their role by giving advice on the way forward. So don't blame the wazee for doing their job.

Also I believe that this cremation issue put into disarray the rites that should have happened before, during and after interment. Could this be why cremation was chosen, despite it being basically unknown in the community?


As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.

Hizo zingine ni kelele.

In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#242 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 1:53:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:


As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.

Hizo zingine ni kelele.



A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal.
Angelica _ann
#243 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 2:29:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:


As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.

Hizo zingine ni kelele.



A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal.


Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#244 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 2:49:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:


As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.

Hizo zingine ni kelele.



A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal.


Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously.


Elders are knowledgeable in all matters touching on the community and individuals - right from an individuals birth to after his or her death. In the current case, they have only referred to the relevant kipengele in that katiba. If you dont like some contents of that katiba the way to go is ask for a referendum to review hicho vipengele, not rebuking the elders for reading the kipengele to you.
Angelica _ann
#245 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 3:12:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:


As i had indicated earlier, the your so called 'Elders' were not there when Okoth was alive and therefore their advice becomes useless and irrelevant when Okoth is dead.

Hizo zingine ni kelele.



A man or woman does not exist in isolation. They are part of the larger community which is governed by traditions and customs, and no one knows about those societal matters better than the elders. Therefore elders, not just luo ones, have a duty to remind members of their communities on the correct procedures to follow during events such as deaths, marriages, initiations etc. Or should we also fault our judges when they remind us what our laws and katiba say regarding the procedures to follow when certain events occur? The luo elders are just telling you what the "luo katiba" says, its nothing personal.


Luo katiba doesn't start at death, thanks. You must be a wholesome elder. Let your Elders grow up and take there role seriously.


Elders are knowledgeable in all matters touching on the community and individuals - right from an individuals birth to after his or her death. In the current case, they have only referred to the relevant kipengele in that katiba. If you dont like some contents of that katiba the way to go is ask for a referendum to review hicho vipengele, not rebuking the elders for reading the kipengele to you.


There in lies the reason why they FAILED miserably.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#246 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 4:12:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....


Angelica _ann
#247 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 5:11:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....




This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Spikes
#248 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 11:47:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....




This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!!

What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'?
Please translate for Wazooo larger community.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Angelica _ann
#249 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2019 12:16:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....




This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!!

What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'?
Please translate for Wazooo larger community.


@Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Spikes
#250 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2019 1:15:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Angelica _ann wrote:
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....




This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!!

What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'?
Please translate for Wazooo larger community.


@Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!!

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Applause Applause Applause
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
hardwood
#251 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2019 9:09:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Spikes wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Heshimu wazee. They mean well for the community....




This to be are not Elders but Jodong aich!!!

What do you mean by 'Jadong aich'?
Please translate for Wazooo larger community.


@Hardwood, the spokesman for the elders can translate!!!!

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Applause Applause Applause


She's called them "selfish elders", and she is wrong in her assessment.
Swenani
#252 Posted : Wednesday, August 07, 2019 10:45:45 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
I 100% fully agree with hardwood
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
madollar
#253 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 5:10:21 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 2,038
Location: GA
Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation

Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji

The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.
hardwood
#254 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 10:41:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
madollar wrote:
Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation

Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji

The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.


Political seats should not be hereditary. What has this okoth brother done for the people and whats his vision to deserve the seat?
AlphDoti
#255 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 11:39:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
madollar wrote:
Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation

Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji

The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.

Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies.
Gathige
#256 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 2:20:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
AlphDoti wrote:
madollar wrote:
Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation

Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji

The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.

Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies.



Baba may give it to Sifuna.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
hardwood
#257 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 2:30:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Gathige wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
madollar wrote:
Was this a paid crowd ama the okoth family are politically done after the cremation

Ken Okoth’s brother booed off by hostile crowd in Kamukunji

The youth kept shouting “Toka hapo, toka kabisa!” making it impossible for Imran to address the crowd.

Politics is rough game, possibly paid crowd. By the way who else is the (wo)man to beat for Kibra seat? I think Imran qualifies.



Baba may give it to Sifuna.


Baba should take the seat himuselefu. We need him in parliament.
AlphDoti
#258 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 2:51:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Can't you say anything unless you mention Baba? smile

NOTE: I do not pitch for or against. Just concerned about the obsession of some people
Gathige
#259 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 2:54:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
AlphDoti wrote:
You cannot say anything unless you mention Baba? smile

NOTE: I do not pitch for or against. Just concerned about the obsession of some people


Baba= Kibra, Kibra=Baba.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
Thitifini
#260 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2019 8:39:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
MacDonald Mariga??? I agree, that was a suave move by JP. It places them right in the Kibra eating table.

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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