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Punguza Mizigo Bill
Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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FRM2011 wrote:Is @maka still active on wazua ?
Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.
The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.
It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.
We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse! That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Is @maka still active on wazua ?
Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.
The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.
It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.
We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse! That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far Thanks for he clarification. It's a pity really. It seems he doesn't understand this is a political process. I have seen a legal advisory in ODM circles ( I am still active there). The sweetener to MCAs to replace CDF with ward development fund is not possible legally. The CDF had to rebrand to NG-CDF to survive post-devolution. Counties can create WDF and some have even started. But not from the national government budget.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Is @maka still active on wazua ?
Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.
The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.
It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.
We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse! That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far It will have to be appreciated that there is another effort at referendum that is parallel to Aukot's. There will have to be some horse trading and rationalization. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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My theory has come to pass. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/1/2009 Posts: 1,883
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FRM2011 wrote:limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Is @maka still active on wazua ?
Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.
The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.
It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.
We still dont have a substantive referendum law, hence will have to rely on the (quite) deficient provisions in the katiba. That means, once the signatures are verified by IEBC, the bill can't be amended, and would have to go all the way. If you change any clause then you have to go back to the 1m who supported the initiative and ask them to endorse! That's where we fault aukot and chebukati. Aukot should have involved more stakeholders during the drafting of the bill. I find it very cunning of him to include sweeteners for MCA's just so they can pass the bill. Its like burying our heads in the sand. Chebukati on the other hand should have refused to take it forward to counties unless we have a substantive law on referendum. Sadly, I don't it will go far Thanks for he clarification. It's a pity really. It seems he doesn't understand this is a political process. I have seen a legal advisory in ODM circles ( I am still active there). The sweetener to MCAs to replace CDF with ward development fund is not possible legally.The CDF had to rebrand to NG-CDF to survive post-devolution. Counties can create WDF and some have even started. But not from the national government budget. you realise that if the constitution is amended to provide that then it would be very legal? you can't get any more legal that a constitutional provision. who is this mis-advising odm on such?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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I think such drastic changes in the system of representation should be more consultative. If you don't consult widely and lobby for political support then you might not go far with this kind of initiative. There are already questions as to whether IEBC is properly constituted to preside over this. The courts might have to decide.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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It was a very clever move to target the backing of the MCAs. If it's passed by 24 county assemblies, Parliament will have no say in the matter.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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it may go through. https://www.standardmedi...dy-won-referendum-race.
either way we are damned.whether MCA or MPs they will just enrich themselves and their selves.kila mtu achunge mzigo wake.we first need a societal change of attitude to corruption punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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limanika wrote:How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt I know 1 person who signed. He told me that it was an online process
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Lolest! wrote:limanika wrote:How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt I know 1 person who signed. He told me that it was an online process eukot alicheza ball ya chini.he is a clever fellow and may win as others make noise punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:limanika wrote:How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt I know 1 person who signed. He told me that it was an online process I don't doubt its authenticity because I would have signed it myself if I'd received or known about it.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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2012 wrote:Lolest! wrote:limanika wrote:How can 1.2m signatures be collected and nobody I know signed up? Where was the signing done? I Never heard of a desk in my ward or constituency to sign up. At least for BBI we know they're visiting all counties. And the main issue, how exactly did IEBC verify and confirm that the signatures are valid? By the way, from where I sit, increasing money to counties and creating WDF is not the solution. Infact this will lead to entrenchment of corruption that has already now been devolved from central govt I know 1 person who signed. He told me that it was an online process I don't doubt its authenticity because I would have signed it myself if I'd received or known about it. OK, but how did IEBC confirm the signature (and all others) are genuine? Do they have a depository of all signatures?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Is @maka still active on wazua ?
Would want to know whether the county assemblies or parliament can amend the bill as presented. Or approve some sections and reject others.
The proposal on fighting corruption is not a bad one. It gives the DPP powers to operationalize chapter 6 of the constitution. He will have powers to ask anyone mentioned adversely by the auditor General, PAC or PIC to vacate office immediately.
It also expands the definition of corruption to instances where the public does not get value for money.
Article 257 Sub article (8) and (9).... The bill cannot be changed. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Aniiita, anita wangu, bebelielieee… ...now you know...  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Impunity wrote:Aniiita, anita wangu, bebelielieee… ...now you know... It was for gender balance manenos to comply with new katiba.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2018 Posts: 564 Location: Britain
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When virtually all politicians gang up against Aukot's Bill, just know that this must be a good bill which is pro- Wanjiku and anti-selfish/useless politicians.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/9/2008 Posts: 2,824
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limanika wrote:I think such drastic changes in the system of representation should be more consultative. If you don't consult widely and lobby for political support then you might not go far with this kind of initiative. There are already questions as to whether IEBC is properly constituted to preside over this. The courts might have to decide. Who was to be consulted? ODM? Jubilee? Wiper? Hacha hiyo story. They are doing theirs called BBI lt them bring it on when ready. Punguza mzigo will go all the way.... When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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