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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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2012 wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:Bigchick wrote:2012 wrote:radio wrote:I've some prime plots in Nvs. For anyone interested, kindly drop me a mail I think the idea is for vendors to refuse to take cash and only accept bank transfers due to existing counterfeits. I would not accept cash. But I see many of these criminals using mpesa and purchasing construction materials in bulk to launder their loot. Mpesa has daily limits.Cannot launder lots of cash through this method. If had a billion or two to lauder I would be looking for a high cash business to 'invest' in, like a super market chain. But I think what Uhuru should have done is give a four week amnesty. Bring the money from under the matress, no questions asked, as long as you pay tax on it. It doesn't stop the DCI from using the information to go after suspected drug money cleaning etc. Meanwhile that KRA collection target problem? Solved. That kind of amnesty would create an artificial or real inflation that could take years to recover from or not recover at all. Unless the amnesty is to return the cash to CBK which is the same as letting the time lapse and stay with or burn the valueless papers. The reason they set October is to mitigate against the artificial inflation it might create if the amount is as huge as suggested in the media and social circles. Inflation is a risk we are taking even now. If the rumour that 250 birrion is hidden under mattress is true, expect the CBK to start tweaking interest rates shortly. The amnesty path at least fills up government coffers while we are at it. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Psst....i know a certain archbishop, chief, genero, komanda who might be game for such a deal. You have to seriously respect his wife though. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Wakanyugi wrote:Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Psst....i know a certain archbishop, chief, genero, komanda who might be game for such a deal. You have to seriously respect his wife though.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/22/2009 Posts: 2,449 Location: Africa
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From P Njoroge’s wall
After the president’s announcement on the Ksh 1000 note yesterday, we saw some arguing that the move won’t be successful because most of the cash being hoarded is in form of dollars, and those keeping in in form of Ksh will convert it to dollars within the 120 days given.
Well, today I decided to talk to someone who could provide expert analysis on the matter, and this was my take home:
The cash outside banks is 230 Billion and this is what the president wants to bring back to the formal economy or in the banking sector. As of June 2018, there were 210 million one thousand shilling notes in circulation valued at KShs 210 billion. This means majority of the notes both in and outside banks is of Ksh. 1,000 denomination and only 20 Billion is in other denominations and currency.
Foreign Exchange Reserves in Kenya increased to 11737.70 Million USD Million in February from 11387.20 Million USD in January of 2019. Thus to convert the Ksh 230,000,000,000 outside banks to dollars would require $2,300,000,000 or almost 20% of the total forex reserves. This CBK can't allow because the Ksh would decline to around Ksh 125 per dollar and given the dollars required to repay debt and exports, the economy would simply collapse given that Kenya is a net importer. Therefore government would not avail the dollars.
The dollars in the economy are very controlled so as to keep a stable exchange rate of between 95-105. And as stated above, because of the foreign debt repayment, the CBK cannot allow appreciation of the dollar, as every Ksh. 1 rise in exchange rate increases our debt by a huge margin.
So what is likely to happen is that we will see completion of more houses and purchase of assets at exaggerated prices i.e.cars, lands etc in the next four months. We can also expect inflation up to mid next year as effects of demonetization typically take 6-12 months.
All in all, this was a very necessary move. The money being hoarded needs to be injected back to the formal economy.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/8/2018 Posts: 507 Location: Nairobi
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Shak wrote:From P Njoroge’s wall
After the president’s announcement on the Ksh 1000 note yesterday, we saw some arguing that the move won’t be successful because most of the cash being hoarded is in form of dollars, and those keeping in in form of Ksh will convert it to dollars within the 120 days given.
Well, today I decided to talk to someone who could provide expert analysis on the matter, and this was my take home:
The cash outside banks is 230 Billion and this is what the president wants to bring back to the formal economy or in the banking sector. As of June 2018, there were 210 million one thousand shilling notes in circulation valued at KShs 210 billion. This means majority of the notes both in and outside banks is of Ksh. 1,000 denomination and only 20 Billion is in other denominations and currency.
Foreign Exchange Reserves in Kenya increased to 11737.70 Million USD Million in February from 11387.20 Million USD in January of 2019. Thus to convert the Ksh 230,000,000,000 outside banks to dollars would require $2,300,000,000 or almost 20% of the total forex reserves. This CBK can't allow because the Ksh would decline to around Ksh 125 per dollar and given the dollars required to repay debt and exports, the economy would simply collapse given that Kenya is a net importer. Therefore government would not avail the dollars.
The dollars in the economy are very controlled so as to keep a stable exchange rate of between 95-105. And as stated above, because of the foreign debt repayment, the CBK cannot allow appreciation of the dollar, as every Ksh. 1 rise in exchange rate increases our debt by a huge margin.
So what is likely to happen is that we will see completion of more houses and purchase of assets at exaggerated prices i.e.cars, lands etc in the next four months. We can also expect inflation up to mid next year as effects of demonetization typically take 6-12 months.
All in all, this was a very necessary move. The money being hoarded needs to be injected back to the formal economy. Nyumba zote za Cytonn zitanunuliwa sasa 😂😂
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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FRM2011 wrote:Lolest! wrote:Old notes going nowhere. Omtata Mahakamani kesho mapema!! Lolest! wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Someone will be in court on Monday and because wakora judges are some of the biggest hoarders of cash bribes this move is likely to be quashed. Yep, they're making it easy for the judges. Kenyatta's KICC sculpture is on all the new notes Tomorrow morning CBK will release 100s of CIT vehicles with the new currency. From there, everything moves pretty fast. I suspect they didn't change the size of the currencies for ATM compatibility. BTW, Kenyans should know that no bank will exchange notes. YOU MUST DEPOSIT to an account. And withdraw new currency. By end of June, the old 1,000 note will be a rarity. Matatu touts, mama mbogas, mpesa girls start asking stupid questions like, "kwani hii yako haujabadilisha ?" can one withdraw say 10m legit money new currency and deposit the same in the same bank after a day or two in the old currency.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/9/2008 Posts: 2,824
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MPs now opposing....When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Lolest! wrote:Old notes going nowhere. Omtata Mahakamani kesho mapema!! Lolest! wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Someone will be in court on Monday and because wakora judges are some of the biggest hoarders of cash bribes this move is likely to be quashed. Yep, they're making it easy for the judges. Kenyatta's KICC sculpture is on all the new notes Tomorrow morning CBK will release 100s of CIT vehicles with the new currency. From there, everything moves pretty fast. I suspect they didn't change the size of the currencies for ATM compatibility. BTW, Kenyans should know that no bank will exchange notes. YOU MUST DEPOSIT to an account. And withdraw new currency. By end of June, the old 1,000 note will be a rarity. Matatu touts, mama mbogas, mpesa girls start asking stupid questions like, "kwani hii yako haujabadilisha ?" can one withdraw say 10m legit money new currency and deposit the same in the same bank after a day or two in the old currency. As per KYC policy, you will have to explain the source of your old 1000 notes....otherwise if you say "these are the notes I withdrew jana", then please return the new bills please,sio hizi mzee. Thank you. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Thitifini wrote:maka wrote:maka wrote:Thitifini wrote:Hehe, there's about 264million shillings of 1000 hard-notes in circulation as per CBK records.
Most of it should be legit cash with mwananchi. So don't expect much wind from this. Really? Boss it's 232 Billion of the 1000 shillings notes.... 42% of the total currency in circulation.... So its 232 million notes... I stand corrected. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Interesting. The church could actually be the best vehicle to launder cash in Kenya, probably even better than a foundation or a betting company/casino.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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I'm very sceptical. Of course the lack of trust in our government to oversee this process doesn't help either. But I believe they know where all these money is, they know under whose 'matresses' because these are not monies people just withdraw over the counters in sacks like Kabura(who is still roaming free), this is money that is withdrawn with cars and trucks from strong rooms. So wawache kiswahili miingi... I'm also beginning to doubt if that 'fake' cash that was recovered in Barclays was really fake... BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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TNT wrote:Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Interesting. The church could actually be the best vehicle to launder cash in Kenya, probably even better than a foundation or a betting company/casino. @TNT, In Money Laundering, you clean the cash and its gets back to you as legit. In a mchango, the illegit passes to the church and it becomes legit but the launder losses it. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2009 Posts: 206
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Gathige wrote:TNT wrote:Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Interesting. The church could actually be the best vehicle to launder cash in Kenya, probably even better than a foundation or a betting company/casino. @TNT, In Money Laundering, you clean the cash and its gets back to you as legit. In a mchango, the illegit passes to the church and it becomes legit but the launder losses it. And how difficult is it to start, buy or control (corrupt) a church in Kenya?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Simon Mbugua (MP) & Okiya Omtatah have already moved to court separately to block the issuance of new notes
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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TNT wrote:Gathige wrote:TNT wrote:Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Interesting. The church could actually be the best vehicle to launder cash in Kenya, probably even better than a foundation or a betting company/casino. @TNT, In Money Laundering, you clean the cash and its gets back to you as legit. In a mchango, the illegit passes to the church and it becomes legit but the launder losses it. And how difficult is it to start, buy or control (corrupt) a church in Kenya? Interesting point @TNT. Who'd even verify it's a church? You could register Kanisa la Fimbo ya Musa, deposit pesa kidogo then claim there was a mega fundraising
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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TNT wrote:Kusadikika wrote:What is to prevent someone doing church harambees for the next 15 weekends and giving 300 million at each harambee. Bishop and congregation are present and they participate in Harambee. Is there any legal requirement for congregation to declare where they got church harambee money? Do they even have to declare how much they give? I am sure a pastor will be quick to preach "do not let what the right hand know what the left hand is doing" scripture.
Now the church has the money. Bishop shows up with 3000 million cash at a bank and declares "ni mchango wa kanisa". All legit. Which bank will be the first to refuse to bank for a church. Once in the system church goes on a spending spree buying real estate and building apartments and townhouses. Interesting. The church could actually be the best vehicle to launder cash in Kenya, probably even better than a foundation or a betting company/casino. @TNT, In Money Laundering, you clean the cash and its gets back to you as legit. In a mchango, the illegit passes to the church and it becomes legit but the launder losses it. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2018 Posts: 564 Location: Britain
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Lolest! wrote:Simon Mbugua (MP) & Okiya Omtatah have already moved to court separately to block the issuance of new notes Whereas Okiya is doing it out of service to humanity, we all know who Simon Mbugua represents. Kanukeee!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 921
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Queen wrote:Lolest! wrote:Simon Mbugua (MP) & Okiya Omtatah have already moved to court separately to block the issuance of new notes Whereas Okiya is doing it out of service to humanity, we all know who Simon Mbugua represents. Kanukeee! They may succeed in stopping the issuance of new notes but can they stop de~legalizing of the 1K note?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,702
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Njunge wrote:Queen wrote:Lolest! wrote:Simon Mbugua (MP) & Okiya Omtatah have already moved to court separately to block the issuance of new notes Whereas Okiya is doing it out of service to humanity, we all know who Simon Mbugua represents. Kanukeee! They may succeed in stopping the issuance of new notes but can they stop de~legalizing of the 1K note? I believe the new notes have already been issued so if the judge maintains status quo it means it is easier to obtain judgement against demonetizing the old notes. I can also foresee many cases of ukora coming in. Imagine a case of biashara people who sell things on credit. You give goods and the guy pays a few months later. The writing on all notes new or old reads "legal tender for 1000 shillings." Someone owes you 1 million and then on October 15th he comes and gives you your 1 million in old notes. If he is conniving enough he can film the entire exchange coming into your office and putting 1 million cash on the table and then leaving. Of course you will be protesting and saying this is not legit. He leaves the money with you and runs away and says, "take me to court, I have paid your money." Of course cases are not determined on the spot so there will be a case in court for years in which you claim you gave the man goods worth 1 million and he never paid you. He will say he actually paid you. He will claim he does not manufacture money and only uses the legal tender issued by CBK. The notes he gave you back were legal tender. There is no expiration date written on the note etc etc.
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