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US - China tariffs war
AlphDoti
#61 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:41:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
harrydre wrote:
2012 wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
This is a bluff, Trump thinks China will be bullied into submission, no!!!


This war is affecting the US more than China. Here are a few facts:

US is the largest exporter of Soy to China.

Chinese affordable products make up the biggest inventory in US supermarkets.

Chinese manufacture for majority of American companies with their cheap labour due to high technical government training. Just try watching Shark Tank.

Huawei is the largest technology company in the world and most of their technology is supplied to them by Silicon Valley, American firms. Huawei is also the second largest smart phone manufacturer with over 30 million phones sold this year so far and they all run on America's, Google owned Android system.

Other Chinese phone manufacturers eg Tecno, Oppo, Infinix, Xiaomi etc all use Android system outside China.

China is Apple biggest foreign consumer and and can't afford to lose it....
Nobody wins in a trade war. Today Trump pulled back on steel and aluminum tariffs after Mexico and Canada reteriated with agricultural tariffs. Trump farmers got hurt big time, started commiting suicides.

China has advantage as it's not a democracy. Try that shit with American farmer and he will be out of office 2020.

@2012, the other advantage Huawei has is the high Chinese population, over 1.2 billion who can be made to consume local products. Of course they will experience some revenue loss, but they can survive
tycho
#62 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:15:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The human mind is capable of complex systems thinking at the subconscious and unconscious levels. Conscious thinking can only achieve the same feat if it has simulators.

That the US govt has reversed some moves means that it isn't engaged in complex thinking, much as it is a super power with many great brains.

Therefore it is likely that it will lose in all these wars it is waging simultaneously since processing is only getting more intense.

And because other countries are playing black, then they are likely to find niches for serious counter attacks.

Kusadikika
#63 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:50:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
AlphDoti wrote:
harrydre wrote:
2012 wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
This is a bluff, Trump thinks China will be bullied into submission, no!!!


This war is affecting the US more than China. Here are a few facts:

US is the largest exporter of Soy to China.

Chinese affordable products make up the biggest inventory in US supermarkets.

Chinese manufacture for majority of American companies with their cheap labour due to high technical government training. Just try watching Shark Tank.

Huawei is the largest technology company in the world and most of their technology is supplied to them by Silicon Valley, American firms. Huawei is also the second largest smart phone manufacturer with over 30 million phones sold this year so far and they all run on America's, Google owned Android system.

Other Chinese phone manufacturers eg Tecno, Oppo, Infinix, Xiaomi etc all use Android system outside China.

China is Apple biggest foreign consumer and and can't afford to lose it....
Nobody wins in a trade war. Today Trump pulled back on steel and aluminum tariffs after Mexico and Canada reteriated with agricultural tariffs. Trump farmers got hurt big time, started commiting suicides.

China has advantage as it's not a democracy. Try that shit with American farmer and he will be out of office 2020.

@2012, the other advantage Huawei has is the high Chinese population, over 1.2 billion who can be made to consume local products. Of course they will experience some revenue loss, but they can survive


You must admit these Chinese have visionary leadership. From the get go they have a Chinese equivalent of every major Western company and where possible they have allowed the Chinese version to dominate in China. Baidu for Google, Alibaba for Amazon, Huawei for Ericson, Haier for GE, Reren and weibo for Facebook and twitter. And after making iphones for more than 10 years does anybody think Foxconn has not learnt anything about how Apple works?
murchr
#64 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:16:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
T-Bag
#65 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:37:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 510
murchr wrote:
Its all about 5G


spot on finally
I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
T-Bag
#66 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:45:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 510
T-Bag wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its all about 5G


spot on finally


Safcom was to "Huawei" 5G in Kenya after the launch of some TubeStar Base Stations.....are we affected by the ban through Vodafone too?
I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
Kusadikika
#67 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:50:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703


This might seem trivial but this interview is a testament to the difference in style between China and the US and who will come ahead in the standoff. This mzee instead of being worried and concerned when his daughter was arrested in Canada was actually happy because it helped raise the profile of Huawei and Chinese technology.

Can you imagine the kind of hue and cry that would be unleashed on the world if Ivanka was arrested? The Chinese are about winning in the long haul and the big picture. That mentality is the same as Ho Chi Minhs "You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it." that led to the US losing the Vietnam war.

murchr
#68 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:56:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
T-Bag wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
murchr wrote:
Its all about 5G


spot on finally


Safcom was to "Huawei" 5G in Kenya after the launch of some TubeStar Base Stations.....are we affected by the ban through Vodafone too?


Bob said Safaricom is not driven by what Trump says.

“Our policy as a company is not gonna be driven by Donald Trump. Donald Trump can drive some other stuff but we will make independent decisions,” he said.

“Do we think that Huawei is a very competent service provider? Yes absolutely. Do we have fights with them? Yes, but they have been a very competent and very close partner of ours over many years and I hope will continue to be so.”
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
2012
#69 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:31:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
harrydre wrote:
2012 wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
This is a bluff, Trump thinks China will be bullied into submission, no!!!


This war is affecting the US more than China. Here are a few facts:

US is the largest exporter of Soy to China.

Chinese affordable products make up the biggest inventory in US supermarkets.

Chinese manufacture for majority of American companies with their cheap labour due to high technical government training. Just try watching Shark Tank.

Huawei is the largest technology company in the world and most of their technology is supplied to them by Silicon Valley, American firms. Huawei is also the second largest smart phone manufacturer with over 30 million phones sold this year so far and they all run on America's, Google owned Android system.

Other Chinese phone manufacturers eg Tecno, Oppo, Infinix, Xiaomi etc all use Android system outside China.

China is Apple biggest foreign consumer and and can't afford to lose it....
Nobody wins in a trade war. Today Trump pulled back on steel and aluminum tariffs after Mexico and Canada reteriated with agricultural tariffs. Trump farmers got hurt big time, started commiting suicides.

China has advantage as it's not a democracy. Try that shit with American farmer and he will be out of office 2020.

@2012, the other advantage Huawei has is the high Chinese population, over 1.2 billion who can be made to consume local products. Of course they will experience some revenue loss, but they can survive


Very true. In China, what the government says goes without question. They have also invested heavily all over the world including in Trumpland. Most countries cannot do without China but they've bee doing pretty well without US.

BBI will solve it
:)
madhaquer
#70 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 9:41:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
The US has relies on brainwashing and propaganda. Beyond it's military might, this is it's second greatest strength.
For years China has resisted this propaganda and westernization of it's citizens and maintained a closed culture, this is a strength.
kingfisher
#71 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:15:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
2012 wrote:
kingfisher wrote:
2012 wrote:
Apparently, future versions of Huawei smartphones hat run on Android will also lose access to popular services including the Google Play Store and Gmail and YouTube apps.

Looks like Huawei is a major target for Trump here...


Are you saying Huawei can not come up with an OS like android? Google will lose in this.

But this is just a proxy war, main target is Iran. That's why Moscow is very quiet, waiting for the real war. US need to try and weaken Beijing economically before they venture into Tehran so that they will be confronting Moscow only. But I doubt it will work...


I'm sure they already have an OS in place. But it makes one wonder which company is really under government control, Huawei or Google?

I think it's now a danger for any business to solely rely on Google or any American product. Even Samsung, Moto and others should worry about using a system that is controlled by the US government.


Trump may have started killing google without intention... All those apps on google play store can be replicated on Chingchong play store when smartphones start being churned out on chingchong OS
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
kingfisher
#72 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:35:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824


If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
kingfisher
#73 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:46:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
Rollout wrote:
murchr wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
murchr wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
Rollout wrote:
hardwood wrote:
2012 wrote:
murchr wrote:
Google is now being controlled by the US government same crime that Trump is accusing Huawei of. Not good at all.


If China banns Apple, Apple would lose 30% of their business.


China should shut Apple manufacturing factories which are all located in china and cripple apple 100%.


Shutting down Apple Manufacturing facilities will not happen because it will be the beginning of the end of China communist party. The ripple effect will lead to collapse of the GOV and the ruling elites know that.

1. There will be immediate mass unemployment associated with Apple factories closure

2. It will signal other foreign manufactures that its time to open shops in other East Asia countries leading to a ripple and graduate shift of production by other companies to other countries creating a compounding long term increase unemployment.

3. China need technology and they are learning by having apple and other companies in their country.

With high unemployment the economy will slow down and the party will loose support from the masses

My thoughts exactly. China is in no position to bully any western country. All its manufacturing and all its market is in the west. Now that the west has seen that China is trying to show that its growing some balls. Manufacturing wil soon be moving to other Asian countries like Vietnam Thailand and Indonesia . Taiwan is also another destination.


That will be a long shot. Manufacturing is not just building factories, you will have to train those workers to be as efficient as those of the country you are leaving so I do not see any company making that kind of move.

These companies also want to sell to the 1B chinese population so leaving also implies leaving behind that market that they will find no where else.

That's why Walmart has alerted their customers to expect higher prices

Currently, Trump hasnt slapped tariffs on Apple products but if he imposes it on the rest of the items then the prices of Apple phones is bound to go up


The 1b market you are talking about is only made up of peasants. That's not the target market for Americans or EU. They will move elsewhere very fast. They will gamble and create efficiency elsewhere. I once saw on tv how Boeing constructed a factory from scratch and started making planes. If Africa had the right infrastructure like power and ports .. they could move here too we also have a 1b population(market)



You are a joke.

The Chinese middle class comprises of 420million people - That is more than the entire population of America.

McKinsey predicts 75% of the urban population will be termed as middle class in 2022.



The U.S. has taken the path of —deregulation, anti-labor laws, free trade, privatization, slashing social services, and letting banks run wild on speculation. The purpose was to enrich the top 1% by cutting labor costs through offshoring, and other programs.

China did the opposite—it built up manufacturing, continued to heavily regulate the economy and plan for it, maintained a nationalized financial system, and has been implementing retirement and healthcare benefits for its people.

The results speak for themselves



Boeing building a factory from scratch involved money expertise and labor no? Where else has Boeing operated. I know they opened a plant in China in December even with the tariff noise.

Note companies will always take the easy way out. Pass that extra bill to the consumer. If anything, China will manipulate the Yuan


Tesla



One thing you don't understand is that majority/all manufacturing done in China by foreign companies are basically assembly lines, not high-tech manufacturing. These manufacturing are not done by trained engineers, they are done by cheap, not educated, Chinese population. You are basically trained to clue things together. It takes a week or so to train these kinds of labor. Apple for instant does all the design work in California and ship parts and Chips from other US based high tech manufactures to China for assembly.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Who brain washed you brother?
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
AlphDoti
#74 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:39:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
kingfisher wrote:

If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.

And with the current pressure, this will be accelerated faster!
gk
#75 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:53:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 488
The only loser in the long run here is the US.
As M7 said recently wrt the spat with Rwanda, "you can't stop people from trading; they will find a way around the restrictions".

Trump is only charting the way for other countries and businesses to be less reliant on the US.

From Iran to Venezuela to Cuba to North Korea to Russia to China...when you pick a such plentiful plate of enemies,its only a matter before you choke on something.
Much Know
#76 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:24:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
kingfisher wrote:


If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.

Simple, Government cannot be "innovators" and "entrepreneurs", China copies everything and will always lag behind, and it's 8% not 16% and it's copied technology which others care less about like some basic transistors and memory chips with kidogo power. Probably Kenya will move ahead of China, a small country like Israel controls and contributes more to technology than China and will continue to do so forever...even Kenya may leap frog China. What original technology do you use yourself that has originated in China?, copying and developing technology are different things. In the 2020 you are talking about China will be struggling to 'copy' the self driving cars, artificial intelligence and mapping software being developed in other countries, the smart phone market BTW is headed to stagnation and sales are dropping, watu wameshamaliza kulia hapo. BTW i use huawei, i use quality ingco chinese tools in my workshop just as Kenyans we had to settle for SGR because of poverty and ignorance not out of choice e.t.c but i would rather use bosch, makita, Dewalt, craftsman e.t.c they at times copy well and give a good bargain but that's mostly it.
A New Kenya
TNT
#77 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:59:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 206
Much Know wrote:
kingfisher wrote:


If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.

Simple, Government cannot be "innovators" and "entrepreneurs", China copies everything and will always lag behind, and it's 8% not 16% and it's copied technology which others care less about like some basic transistors and memory chips with kidogo power. Probably Kenya will move ahead of China, a small country like Israel controls and contributes more to technology than China and will continue to do so forever...even Kenya may leap frog China. What original technology do you use yourself that has originated in China?, copying and developing technology are different things. In the 2020 you are talking about China will be struggling to 'copy' the self driving cars, artificial intelligence and mapping software being developed in other countries, the smart phone market BTW is headed to stagnation and sales are dropping, watu wameshamaliza kulia hapo. BTW i use huawei, i use quality ingco chinese tools in my workshop just as Kenyans we had to settle for SGR because of poverty and ignorance not out of choice e.t.c but i would rather use bosch, makita, Dewalt, craftsman e.t.c they at times copy well and give a good bargain but that's mostly it.


Currently, China is well ahead of the U.S. in 5G tech (the tech that will power IoT), and that's why the U.S. has resulted to strong arm tactics to try and force China to the negotiation table. At the same time, China is gaining rapidly on the U.S. in terms of other tech. For example, the biggest consumer drone company today is Chinese DJI, and based on the tech tournaments that DJI organizes, Chinese universities are, actually, ahead of U.S. universities on the front, too. When it comes to smartphones, only Samsung is ahead of Huawei.
2012
#78 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:59:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
US has temporarily lifted the ban on Huawei. I wonder why...

BBI will solve it
:)
gk
#79 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:07:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 488
TNT wrote:
Much Know wrote:
kingfisher wrote:


If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.

Simple, Government cannot be "innovators" and "entrepreneurs", China copies everything and will always lag behind, and it's 8% not 16% and it's copied technology which others care less about like some basic transistors and memory chips with kidogo power. Probably Kenya will move ahead of China, a small country like Israel controls and contributes more to technology than China and will continue to do so forever...even Kenya may leap frog China. What original technology do you use yourself that has originated in China?, copying and developing technology are different things. In the 2020 you are talking about China will be struggling to 'copy' the self driving cars, artificial intelligence and mapping software being developed in other countries, the smart phone market BTW is headed to stagnation and sales are dropping, watu wameshamaliza kulia hapo. BTW i use huawei, i use quality ingco chinese tools in my workshop just as Kenyans we had to settle for SGR because of poverty and ignorance not out of choice e.t.c but i would rather use bosch, makita, Dewalt, craftsman e.t.c they at times copy well and give a good bargain but that's mostly it.


Currently, China is well ahead of the U.S. in 5G tech (the tech that will power IoT), and that's why the U.S. has resulted to strong arm tactics to try and force China to the negotiation table. At the same time, China is gaining rapidly on the U.S. in terms of other tech. For example, the biggest consumer drone company today is Chinese DJI, and based on the tech tournaments that DJI organizes, Chinese universities are, actually, ahead of U.S. universities on the front, too. When it comes to smartphones, only Samsung is ahead of Huawei.


And it's quite smart of the Chinese to copy. That's how, largely, they have managed to close the industrial gap with the West within record time. R&D is very expensive and there's no case for reinventing the wheel.
And there's evidence they are getting ahead in certain areas. Huawei is a case study.

kingfisher
#80 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:12:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
Much Know wrote:
kingfisher wrote:


If they are doing 16% now, what makes you imagine they cant do 100% in a few years and start exporting? If they had purposed to do 40% by 2020, now that someone is stepping on their toes what do you expect? This will be accelerated and the current suppliers will be the losers in 2 or so years.

Simple, Government cannot be "innovators" and "entrepreneurs", China copies everything and will always lag behind, and it's 8% not 16% and it's copied technology which others care less about like some basic transistors and memory chips with kidogo power. Probably Kenya will move ahead of China, a small country like Israel controls and contributes more to technology than China and will continue to do so forever...even Kenya may leap frog China. What original technology do you use yourself that has originated in China?, copying and developing technology are different things. In the 2020 you are talking about China will be struggling to 'copy' the self driving cars, artificial intelligence and mapping software being developed in other countries, the smart phone market BTW is headed to stagnation and sales are dropping, watu wameshamaliza kulia hapo. BTW i use huawei, i use quality ingco chinese tools in my workshop just as Kenyans we had to settle for SGR because of poverty and ignorance not out of choice e.t.c but i would rather use bosch, makita, Dewalt, craftsman e.t.c they at times copy well and give a good bargain but that's mostly it.


If that war the case then why then all this worry by the americanos?
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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