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Reasoning makes us human
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tycho
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 10:49:00 AM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
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Location: Nairobi
Reasoning is so difficult, yet it is the single thing that makes us human and divine.

Most people are hardly human. Maybe the living dead.
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tom_boy
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 11:26:36 AM
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
tycho wrote:
Reasoning is so difficult, yet it is the single thing that makes us human and divine.

Most people are hardly human. Maybe the living dead.


EVery person reasons. One reasons that the other has no reasoning. There is no arbitrator in reasoning.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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tycho
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 12:02:14 PM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Reasoning is so difficult, yet it is the single thing that makes us human and divine.

Most people are hardly human. Maybe the living dead.


EVery person reasons. One reasons that the other has no reasoning. There is no arbitrator in reasoning.


I define reason as the conscious and deliberate control of the basic elements of life with the aim of sustaining the self.

From this definition we realize that in order for one to reason he/she needs:

1. To know the self
2. To know the basic elements
3. To have have a technique for controlling the basic elements
4. To continuously apply the technique

These are hidden things. Most people don't have the requirements. Therefore not everyone reasons.

I think it another matter about how ideas come to mind,and how we tend to weigh them. In fact, a person often gets an idea and spends the rest of the time either justifying or repressing it.

Even for me, reasoning is a very difficult task.
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tycho
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 12:23:32 PM
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Joined: 7/1/2011
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Location: Nairobi
@tom_boy,

If all people reason, but there's no agreed definition or measurement of reason, how is it possible for you to know that everyone reasons?
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tom_boy
#5 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 4:02:42 PM
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
tycho wrote:
@tom_boy,

If all people reason, but there's no agreed definition or measurement of reason, how is it possible for you to know that everyone reasons?


Because reasoning is what seperates human from animal. As a collective, a human is an animal that reasons.


They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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tom_boy
#6 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 4:14:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
tycho wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Reasoning is so difficult, yet it is the single thing that makes us human and divine.

Most people are hardly human. Maybe the living dead.


EVery person reasons. One reasons that the other has no reasoning. There is no arbitrator in reasoning.


I define reason as the conscious and deliberate control of the basic elements of life with the aim of sustaining the self.

From this definition we realize that in order for one to reason he/she needs:

1. To know the self
2. To know the basic elements
3. To have have a technique for controlling the basic elements
4. To continuously apply the technique

These are hidden things. Most people don't have the requirements. Therefore not everyone reasons.

I think it another matter about how ideas come to mind,and how we tend to weigh them. In fact, a person often gets an idea and spends the rest of the time either justifying or repressing it.

Even for me, reasoning is a very difficult task.



All individual human behaviour is geared towards gratifying the self. Animal behaviour is primarily to gratify primal instincts:hunger, self preservation, procreation.

For humans, reasoning lends itself to satisfaction of emotional and psychological needs which are personal and unique. These " hidden" needs supercede the primal needs.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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tom_boy
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 04, 2019 4:22:42 PM
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Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Can an individual reason without having the ability to articulate his reasoning?
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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tycho
#8 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2019 4:33:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
tycho wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
tycho wrote:
Reasoning is so difficult, yet it is the single thing that makes us human and divine.

Most people are hardly human. Maybe the living dead.


EVery person reasons. One reasons that the other has no reasoning. There is no arbitrator in reasoning.


I define reason as the conscious and deliberate control of the basic elements of life with the aim of sustaining the self.

From this definition we realize that in order for one to reason he/she needs:

1. To know the self
2. To know the basic elements
3. To have have a technique for controlling the basic elements
4. To continuously apply the technique

These are hidden things. Most people don't have the requirements. Therefore not everyone reasons.

I think it another matter about how ideas come to mind,and how we tend to weigh them. In fact, a person often gets an idea and spends the rest of the time either justifying or repressing it.

Even for me, reasoning is a very difficult task.



All individual human behaviour is geared towards gratifying the self. Animal behaviour is primarily to gratify primal instincts:hunger, self preservation, procreation.

For humans, reasoning lends itself to satisfaction of emotional and psychological needs which are personal and unique. These " hidden" needs supercede the primal needs.


I have studied at least two animals in my life: goats and cats, and I can say that even these have a self concept. I have plenty of examples to prove this and perhaps we may be able to set up experiments to explore this matter.

Reasoning is about collective needs that are common to a human settlement. Humans have the own unique psycho-physiological structure that is not in ants for example. Or even bees. Take the example of colony collapse disorder. In this case, humans have the capacity to self heal its settlement. Bees haven't shown such a capacity. Or even ants haven't shown the capacity to return to the old colony after being colonized by other ants.

If we took your explanation on reason as true then a quick test on cats and goats would show that they too have unique emotional and psychological experiences and they often come with creative solutions to them that are also unique.
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tycho
#9 Posted : Monday, May 06, 2019 4:35:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
Can an individual reason without having the ability to articulate his reasoning?


No. Reason is always a matter of conscious articulation. Reason is the foundation of language as we know it.
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