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State of Poverty in Kenya
timbosho
#121 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 1:45:23 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2013
Posts: 34
murchr wrote:
I watched the Agri Cabinet secretary giving excuses on why the Galana irrigation project has failed and I just couldn't believe it. Blaming it on infrastructure yet it was clear that the road was in bad shape even b4 the project was launched. How i wish we had a fierce 3rd estate, some of these Cabinet secretaries need to be asked really hard questions.


Saa zingine ukiwa na time na umekaa chini, kafombe kameanza kufungua akili, story zimeisha, unajipata ukijiuliza enyewe what is wrong with us, not just Kenyans but Africans in general. All over Africa, the same game that has been taking place for centuries is still going on. In the times of our forefathers, our leaders gave away their land, ivory, gold and jewels, their brothers and sisters for manufactured goods like glass beads, whisky and guns. They did not work for unity amongst Africans to fight the colonialists, they preferred to be chiefs/kings of a small group of people and to steal from them than an ordinary raia in a larger united group. When we took over after colonialism we did not learn from our history but continued along the same lines, only replacing the white exploiter with the black exploiter. Now the black exploiter could eat from a larger grouping of people. We continued with maintaining divisions among people instead of building nations. We are still giving away our gold, minerals, land and business opportunities to foreigners cheaply, but it is ridiculous to even think of an African bank or business operating in those same foreign countries. Can you imagine Equity Bank in London? Can you imagine an African country setting up military bases in North America, Asia or Europe? Can you imagine KCC milk being sold in Paris? Ridiculous you say. But here in Kenya we have a British company printing Kenyan currency. A British military base in Nanyuki. West African countries import powdered milk from France and pour milk from their cows on the ground. Congo Brazzaville gave away a mountain of iron ore to an Israeli billionaire, while Israel is currently locking up Africans and deporting them back to Africa. Congo DRC is an even worse case, so many mineral resources and forest timber given away cheaply. Chad recently signed a deal to give away enough uranium to France to power its nuclear plants for years to come. Chinese companies building our roads and ports, which we pay for via higher taxation. Even the Africa Union headquarters in Addis was built and furnished by the Chinese. America has military bases all over Africa. How can this situation be acceptable to Africans? When will we finally stop fighting one another and look at the bigger picture? Is it because deep down we do not think of ourselves as equal to foreigners, we look down on ourselves?

We have internalised the label of being poor and backward but did not think through and internalise how we can overcome poverty and backwardness. With time, we just stopped trying to. We have implicitly accepted that we will always be poor, we do not need to learn to build our own roads and bridges, or plan our cities, or invest adequately and sensibly in our agriculture. We look to foreigners to solve the problems we face, not ourselves. We celebrate when we import billions of shillings of goods from America, but do not ask ourselves what have we sold to the Americans. Just the other day it went out that due to bad weather, 1.6 million Kenyan citizens are at risk of hunger. After 50 years of independence. Other countries with worse weather, complete deserts or frozen wastelands, do not have starving citizens but Kenya with all its land, relatively good climate, percentage of the population engaged in agriculture, access to agricultural research and best practise still has starving citizens. With no sense of shame an appeal for food aid goes out to foreign countries, and life resumed on its merry way in Kenya. Onto the next scam/political/tribal supremacy fight/scheme for the next election. Is that normal human behaviour?
I do not know if its innate in Africans as individuals or its a result of structural flaws in our political and economical setups, or both. I will leave that to wiser people to decide. But its a fact that we have largely maintained the same land tenure, political, economic structures we were left with by the colonialists, without asking ourselves if they are fit for us. We then made things worse by using our national institutions as a source of wealth and reward for political support.
For example Agriculture, has been the foundation on which wealth and industries have been built for many countries in the world. However, for agriculture to flourish and give life to industry, certain conditions have to be there that governments must provide, since private businesses will not since they are profit seeking, and these conditions initially are time consuming and loss making. Without fair land distribution, investment in rural infrastructure linking farms to markets, investment in providing cheap and efficient extension services and farm inputs, poverty and hunger will continue to stalk us. Politicians using the national institutions meant to create these conditions as a reward for political support blunts their effectiveness, cementing the hold of poverty in Africa.
Rollout
#122 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 4:05:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
I lost hope with Kenya after they voted for Uhuru and Ruto. I never in my naive mind thought Kenyans will ignore ICC case and vote for the two.
Tribalism is killing the country, the unfortunate part is the ruling elites mingle freely regarless of their tribal of origin; infact they laugh about how stupid poor kenyans are.

murchr
#123 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:58:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
There are countries where when it rains, people get busy with their phones taking pictures and clips because its such a phenomenon but trust me, the taps never run dry. Here, even when its super hot it can still rain. And all the time we keep blaming the rains for all crop failure. We'll blame the rains for destroying roads when we don't think of the drainage of water paths during planning, and still blame them when it floods our roads yet we are still the ones who litter and clog the drainage..
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
timbosho
#124 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:34:06 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/23/2013
Posts: 34
murchr wrote:
There are countries where when it rains, people get busy with their phones taking pictures and clips because its such a phenomenon but trust me, the taps never run dry. Here, even when its super hot it can still rain. And all the time we keep blaming the rains for all crop failure. We'll blame the rains for destroying roads when we don't think of the drainage of water paths during planning, and still blame them when it floods our roads yet we are still the ones who litter and clog the drainage..


What is really disturbing is that majority of people seem happy with the current status quo. We spend 4 hours in jam per weekday. We do not have water or power. After 50 years of independence, only 20% of Kenyans are connected to the power grid. After 50 years of independence, no one is concerned with the fact that 1.6 million fellow citizens are at risk of hunger. Or that practically all of our institutions of government are irredeemably corrupted. What people are paying attention to is elections, digital tv, thongs in parliament and other side shows. And the same applies to almost every African country. Is it a coping mechanism to run away from the many problems that need solving or is it plain dumbness? Does anyone think of the state of the Africa will we hand over to our children?
murchr
#125 Posted : Monday, May 25, 2015 7:56:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Muriel
#126 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2015 8:34:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 3,142
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Will this not be one more reason, besides many others, why they will keep on postponing 'development'?
Swenani
#127 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:52:55 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Which part exactly, coz I'm yet to see the land apart from the barracks land which is used for army training
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
kiash
#128 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2015 12:10:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 951
Location: Nyumbani
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


You forgot Kapedo and some parts of N Eastern. Kapedo is beautiful , looks like some plains in those sides of Laikipia towards Samburu yet the two places are quite different.Is there a National park near those sides? The solution will come when people will stop saying such and such a place belongs to a certain community.After that , people will move out and go to such areas and developpement will follow.Its a long way and poverty will take time to eradicate. Get the Turkanas and Pokot to sit and agree that they can live anywhere.Hope the peace "Laughing out loudly vans" helicopters will be a start.
murchr
#129 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:44:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
kiash wrote:
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


You forgot Kapedo and some parts of N Eastern. Kapedo is beautiful , looks like some plains in those sides of Laikipia towards Samburu yet the two places are quite different.Is there a National park near those sides? The solution will come when people will stop saying such and such a place belongs to a certain community.After that , people will move out and go to such areas and developpement will follow.Its a long way and poverty will take time to eradicate. Get the Turkanas and Pokot to sit and agree that they can live anywhere.Hope the peace "Laughing out loudly vans" helicopters will be a start.


@Swenani wachana na barracks the small farms that belong to poor people that lie idle with nothing growing.

@Kiash, the "belonging to whatever tribe" shouldn't be an issue. If those who lead those counties agree on the kind of life they would want their residents to live, so much can happen. I mean, strictly make sure that kids go to school<--cut the levels of illiteracy, kids are immunized<--eliminate diseases, observe management of land as a resource eg not over graze, plant trees to control floods, etc. If such basic stuff can be forcefully enforced then poverty can be eradicated. Model Rwanda

To eliminate slums, make those collecting rent to pay a levy for that land, if it becomes expensive living in slums, people will move.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
murchr
#130 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:27:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980


Kweli we are poor
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
essyk
#131 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:34:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
murchr wrote:


Kweli we are poor


I don't believe this.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
murchr
#132 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:47:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
essyk wrote:
murchr wrote:


Kweli we are poor


I don't believe this.


essyk count yourself lucky that you have 1m in your account...there are few like you
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
hardwood
#133 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 8:29:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
.
radiomast
#134 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 9:22:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


I dont know about Eldy for sure. But a lot of land in Kenya is held by speculators. Kenyans obsession with buying land is too much. Land Speculation is bad for the economy. I would suggest that gava starts to take drastic action like charging steep property taxes on all idle land except family land.
Mike Ock
#135 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:26:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
murchr wrote:


Kweli we are poor


Only 70k people make over 100k per month, so this tallies with that figure somewhat. Even if you factor in jua kali guys and street hustlers etc etc, I don't think inaweza pita 300k people. If you have made it in this Kenya, thank your lucky stars and hold on tight to that opportunity.
tom_boy
#136 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:59:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Only the rich can afford to argue like this. Surely you have no comprehension of the financial state of majority of Kenyans. They lack basic food and you are saying let them eat cake. Wewe ni hiyo rika ya UK eti, " gazetti ni za kufunga nyama"
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
tycho
#137 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:01:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Having a million shillings in a bank account doesn't make one rich or wealthy.

Poverty isn't always a state of mind.
murchr
#138 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:19:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
tom_boy wrote:
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Only the rich can afford to argue like this. Surely you have no comprehension of the financial state of majority of Kenyans. They lack basic food and you are saying let them eat cake. Wewe ni hiyo rika ya UK eti, " gazetti ni za kufunga nyama"



I am a CAPITALIST and I believe strongly that the "Serikali saidia mentality" is what holds us back. Now stop attacking my personality and spew out your intelligence. Is a farmer with 2acres of land poor?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Kusadikika
#139 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:44:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
murchr wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Only the rich can afford to argue like this. Surely you have no comprehension of the financial state of majority of Kenyans. They lack basic food and you are saying let them eat cake. Wewe ni hiyo rika ya UK eti, " gazetti ni za kufunga nyama"



I am a CAPITALIST and I believe strongly that the "Serikali saidia mentality" is what holds us back. Now stop attacking my personality and spew out your intelligence. Is a farmer with 2acres of land poor?


No, you are not a capitalist. In fact you are more Stalinist than capitalist. The fundamental principle of capitalism is freedom of the individual person to do as he wishes and not to be compelled to do anything. If a man has 2 acres and he determines that his best use for it is to provide a place to sleep and a toilet to relieve himself then that is his choice. A true capitalist would not want the government in any way to compel the man to do anything other than what he wishes for himself for as long as it is not illegal.

Stalin on the other hand believed in maendeleo. In fact there is no leader in any part of the world who has done as much maendeleo as Stalin. Maendeleo at any cost. The maendeleo was more important than the people and they were forced to industrialize wapende wasipende.

As a capitalist your worry should be your own wealth or poverty not the poverty or wealth of other people. The moment you desire that other people should be compelled to do something you cease to be a capitalist.
murchr
#140 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:57:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kusadikika wrote:
murchr wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
murchr wrote:
Since poverty is a state of mind, what would happen if the govt took drastic measures to change the mindset of a people? eg Why should there be poor people in western Kenya yet these poor people hold fertile land that can grow crops of all types? If the govt imposed a tax levy on all land holders, Inc those with less than 2 acres .. wouldn't these fellas be forced to lease this land for cash which they can use to improve their social welfare? If you drive from Kitale to Eld, there's so much idle land which i believe is being hoarded.

Those who have lived in the west, you know that the local Govt has a say on what kind of housing is approved on certain locales. If you dont take care of your house it is condemned and sold out. If such a remedy was imposed on our people (of course politics will play against this) don't you think the social conditions of a people would improve? All the glitter we see out there has been forced. Just like it is in Rwanda..on the grass thatched houses.


Only the rich can afford to argue like this. Surely you have no comprehension of the financial state of majority of Kenyans. They lack basic food and you are saying let them eat cake. Wewe ni hiyo rika ya UK eti, " gazetti ni za kufunga nyama"



I am a CAPITALIST and I believe strongly that the "Serikali saidia mentality" is what holds us back. Now stop attacking my personality and spew out your intelligence. Is a farmer with 2acres of land poor?


No, you are not a capitalist. In fact you are more Stalinist than capitalist. The fundamental principle of capitalism is freedom of the individual person to do as he wishes and not to be compelled to do anything. If a man has 2 acres and he determines that his best use for it is to provide a place to sleep and a toilet to relieve himself then that is his choice. A true capitalist would not want the government in any way to compel the man to do anything other than what he wishes for himself for as long as it is not illegal.

Stalin on the other hand believed in maendeleo. In fact there is no leader in any part of the world who has done as much maendeleo as Stalin. Maendeleo at any cost. The maendeleo was more important than the people and they were forced to industrialize wapende wasipende.

As a capitalist your worry should be your own wealth or poverty not the poverty or wealth of other people. The moment you desire that other people should be compelled to do something you cease to be a capitalist.



Show me a capitalist govt that doesnt offer incentives (incl tax) to its citizens, show me a capitalist who would sit and shit on his land and i'll wire 10K right now.

In a capitalist system, those with capital invest their money in production in order to make more money. If you are not
an owner you are just labor, a commodity. Labor is an expense to owners, and owners will always seek to minimize expenses in order to maximize profits. That's why i always tell you companies do not exist to employ but to make profit so the sour headlines of retrenchment will be on for a while.

Stalin was a socialist
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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