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Suicide on the increase in middle-class Kenya
2012
#1 Posted : Friday, October 12, 2018 9:13:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I know depression is a disease, but I also think it is overstated as the only cause of suicide.

@Tycho, what's your take on depression? I'm curious.

BBI will solve it
:)
Tokyo
#2 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:08:08 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.
work to prosper
2012
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:02:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

BBI will solve it
:)
tycho
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:31:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
I know depression is a disease, but I also think it is overstated as the only cause of suicide.

@Tycho, what's your take on depression? I'm curious.


If I look at my mind, then I can say I've been depressed mostly because I haven't known who my true mother is/was. And since I tried to project on my biological mother and the world, qualities of my true mother which were too high for them, I found myself in a captivity of sorts. Slavery, drudgery, the list of de-motivators is high.

There's another aspect; this time, about the entity I call 'me'. I set some standards for myself, but I'm too weak to be able to live the thought. Only training can help... Oh, imagine the dynamics of training. Which training is this? Where's the trainer? You don't find one as easily. 'I'm a failure' you say. Let's call it the institutionalization of Babylon, in my mind.

The deepest aspect of 'the depression' is my alienation from the unconscious. I believe that if an individual can be receptive to the unconscious, then he/she has everything he/she needs. Knowing who your true mother and father are is the sweetest thing ever. Your days are full of joy, life is eternal!

In the end depression is a good thing and should be encouraged. If one is depressed, then that person is ready for enlightenment. Just don't give up!

Suicide appears as a way out some times. But in a knowable universe you discover that death is an illusion and killing yourself is self deception. An individual's mind can't be trusted! You need to control your mind, but not the other way round.

tycho
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:37:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


Most people don't even know who they are, how can they decide?

I can accept it when Socrates drinks the poison, but is it ethical for one who's yet to realize what she has or even where she is to make such a decision under self deception?

Socrates will drink hemlock because he knows it makes no difference, the non philosopher who doesn't know what he doesn't know, will drink it because he thinks it makes a difference when it doesn't. Or, even, without due diligence.

The standard for humanity is excellence @Tokyo, laws are for the promotion of it!
masukuma
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 11:45:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kayhara
#7 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 12:06:06 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,059
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

I have lost three friends to suicide, the first was from a disagreement with the parents trying too much to control their only son.
The second was from drugs a first timer trying out unga and somehow it told him to hang himself.
The third was in the KDF trauma issues which affect many of our boys in the army.
Families are putting pressure on young men in this hard economy I know many who have had to deal with depression by cutting everyone out, alcohol seems to be the last thing they go to for the depression so it's really hard to help.
Please ask for help. you will be surprised at how people actually care
To Each His Own
Lolest!
#8 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 12:41:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Angelica _ann
#9 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 12:44:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves


Just leave a nicely written suicide with a clear reason why. then the rest wont blame themselves.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
essyk
#10 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 1:45:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves


Exactly.
You live with guilt for the rest of your life asking you whether you could have done it different.
Was your approach wrong? Was there a way to stop it? Where were you when it happened? Why didn't you sense it?Why,why why is what you will take to your grave.
It's done.It's over.And you have to live with that forever.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Lolest!
#11 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 1:45:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves


Just leave a nicely written suicide with a clear reason why. then the rest wont blame themselves.

Shame aspect too for family
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
essyk
#12 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 1:54:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
@ Hi Angelica,

There is nothing like a nicely written suicide note.
I would rather they don't even write anything.Oh I would hate to read it.
At the time of committing suicide one is not in his right mind.
It takes a LOT of strength and emotions to contemplate and eventually do it.
But what saddens me is the fact that most suicidal people will not even talk about it.They only exhibit sysmptoms which we all take for granted.
Kaa ngumu, bora uhai,yet one is a boiling lava waitng to erupt.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
madollar
#13 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:21:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 2,038
Location: GA
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves


Just leave a nicely written suicide with a clear reason why. then the rest wont blame themselves.

In some communities you are flogged then buried at night that way those left behind wanabaki with no guilt
essyk
#14 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:43:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
The prob with some traditions is they faIl to reasonate with the current status of things.
Some traditions thrive very well where ignorance is rife.They will even produce the expected results because that's all that the mind/soul knows.I don't blame them.
You and I know that flogging the dead is plain silly.
It's very soothing however to imagine that it has any positive outcome on the living.So if it gives you peace and closure to flog the dead, go ahead and do so till they repent.eeew.
There are times when God winks.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Hmmmn
#15 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 6:46:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2018
Posts: 121
...

Depression and mental sickness is real...Sometimes you catch it sometimes you don’t...People shouldn’t feél guilty if someone does it...They probably weren’t the problem...No point in blaming oneself over someone else’s actions...
Ce n’est pas si grave...
Ryko
#16 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 8:28:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/27/2016
Posts: 274
Location: Pub
Angelica _ann wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?

Coz of those you leave behind spouse, parents, kids, siblings, friends

People are left blaming themselves


Just leave a nicely written suicide with a clear reason why. then the rest wont blame themselves.


I suport this, Watu wawache notice before suicide, now look others blaming the wife here

I work so I can afford the amount of alcohol required to continue going to work
Tokyo
#17 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 11:56:56 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
I respect their decisions if it doesn’t interfere with other people rights and freedom. We shall someday all depart . When and how is the only difference. Who will not ⁇
work to prosper
2012
#18 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 12:00:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?


As much as it's a personal decision, it deprives the world of your purpose and you leave innocent people behind being blamed and blaming themselves.

I say innocent because nobody is guilty of another person's suicide. It's not murder. Now, for this guy, mara it's the wife, mara the boss... I believe we're all capable of resolving whatever problems we have even by walking away.

BBI will solve it
:)
Hmmmn
#19 Posted : Sunday, October 14, 2018 2:21:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2018
Posts: 121
.
Ce n’est pas si grave...
masukuma
#20 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 12:44:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
masukuma wrote:
2012 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
People should be free to decide if to exit life under their own terms.


I don't know if I agree with that... valid all the same... But it's the most selfish act.

Why "selfish"?


As much as it's a personal decision, it deprives the world of your purpose and you leave innocent people behind being blamed and blaming themselves.

I say innocent because nobody is guilty of another person's suicide. It's not murder. Now, for this guy, mara it's the wife, mara the boss... I believe we're all capable of resolving whatever problems we have even by walking away.

What is your "purpose"? I think the whole "purpose" doctrine is wrong. you have no "purpose" other than what you apply yourself to. it's like a foot... capable of kicking ball... it's purpose is not "to kick the ball" but rather it's capable of kicking the ball. As the head is not "for heading the ball" but capable of "heading the ball". Purpose is in reality more to do with "suitability to doing something and actually doing it" as opposed to "being predestined to doing something".
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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