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Weekly debates by an Atheist
MugundaMan
#241 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:02:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Apricot wrote:

I appreciate your ontological approach to support your theistic beliefs. It is a clever approach but by half.
Wind or any other name you’d want to call it, is a force of nature and its speed, direction, temperature, dew point can all be characterized. Anyone with the right instruments and knowledge can replicate this.


But the philosopher (and perhaps the theist) will argue that all your empirical assumptions and presuppositions used to arrive at a characterization of wind are hopelessly flawed from the jump. For example, how will you measure the winds speed unless you (or society) has arbitrarily determined what the measurement unit of speed is? Which would logically lead to yet another arbitrary determination of more basic units of measurement such as a metre for example. But a metre looks like a kilometre from the perspective of an ant, and like a millimeter when viewed from the vantage point of a drone flying high above the ground, so there is a dogmatic arrogance in the scientific religion in decreeing (without proofLaughing out loudly ) the vantage point from which a metre becomes a metre!


Quote:
I don’t need to see wind to know it is there. So is magnetism, electricity, light, gravity, space, time and many other forms of nature that have amazed man. Don’t get me wrong, atheist do appreciate the numinous and the transcendent. What they don’t need is to go the extra yard to put a finger of God on it. That type of arrogance is left to the theist.


The interesting thing about most non-theists is that they do not see the log in their eyes as they point out the speck in the theists' eye (pun fully intended smile ) Like in this case, you accept that they do not need to see wind to know it is there, yet you are flabbergasted when the Christian tells you they do not need to see Jesus in the flesh to believe He is Lord and Saviour. How did you make the leap from not seeing wind with your eyes but knowing it exists? Of course by your own religious dogmas on scientific measurement right? Same thing for the Christian; for him, the heavens declare the handiwork of God, day by day, as you have already agreed - they evince the transcendent which amazes. It is plain as day to him that God created the cosmos, because God has progressively revealed himself to us from the beginning of time, and according to the Christian world view that I ascribe to, the evidence of his existence is so glaring that no human being has an excuse to deny Him. Look at a rainbow for example. The non-theist admires its beauty but denies that it was created by a divine being, yet cannot tell us who created it! And often mistakes describing it and its elements to explaining who made it. A better argument on your part would be to determine which God created all that we see, rather than sticking to dogmatic scientific measures of dubious origin as the only yardstick the non-theist approves of.


Quote:
I don’t get your attack on science and your claim that it is a religion! When I make a scientific claim, I make a hypothesis or a guess that can be tested. If evidence adduced supports my claim and anyone anywhere using the same set of conditions can replicate my claim, then my claim is accepted as a valid theory. Where is the religion in that? Science allows others to disprove its claim using evidence to the contrary. Does religion do that? You know very well it does not because it makes claims that are not falsifiable. They cannot be disproved!


Science IS a religion, complete with popes and preachers! In the immeasurable arrogance of the scientist, he arbitrarily creates a set of rules of inquiry, measurement and theory formulation (based, as I said earlier, on hopelessly flawed assumptions) that he then declares as fatwa to be obeyed by all! That is the WORST sort of religion. Who says the mighty God of the universe is explainable by feeble and flawed tools of science? When we theists give you OUR sets of rules to arrive at a knowledge of God, you arrogantly reject them!



Quote:
Claims such as Matthew 27:51 where souls of the dead were resurrected when Jesus died. Or that the sun can be stopped at midday so that Joshua can win war.
If you accept that I do not need to read any revealed text to know that killing my mother is wrong, how then do you make a jump (except by leap of faith) that God planted that conscience in my heart. For heavens sake (pun intended) how do you do that? Can these not mutually exclusive, or is it that one cannot operate without the other assertion?


First of all I am very glad that you actually read the Holy book smile , so clearly it is of some value even to the non-theist. The claims in the Bible above are precisely the "proof" of the divinity of the Christian God. So were the miracles, which contrary to your assertions, WERE documented in the extra-biblical record, but of course not in the empirical detail the non-theist craves! How do we make that leap? Well we trust in God's revealed Word (both the flesh that appeared and the book) which you have of course rejected because it does not conform to the dictates of your religion of Science.

Quote:
The historicity of Jesus is in dispute. His celestial existence is not. Paul’s Jesus is not in doubt and neither is he falsifiable. He is revealed to him. Josephus mention of Jesus has nothing to do with his claimed divinity and it is minute. It is also believed to be a later accretion, like many others whose main goal is to show a historicity of Jesus.

ha ha ha ha ha ha! Excuse me for laughing here. You are in the extreme minority of scholars who actually disputes the historicity of Jesus! Even majority of your non-theist friends would not cast their lot with you on this. As I said earlier, a better argument would be to evaluate whether he was God or man. That he walked the earth is virtually irrefutable.

Quote:
The gospels contradict each other whether and when not doing so, they are growing the legend. No proof of the disciples or of Moses or of other characters in the bible can be adduced like that of Alexander the Greek or Pontius Pilate can be.


This is a complete fallacy. WHERE and HOW do the Gospels contradict each other. Please give us a few CONCRETE EXAMPLES of this so that we can take you seriously on this point. On Moses Vs Alexander; again, the non-theist always reverts to his arrogant cocoon of demanding proof on his own terms using his own bizarre sets of rules. Think of a bustling market in a moment in time. You and I may arrive at that market as historians to document what is going on in the market at the time. Your report may be an elaborate exposition on what fruits, vegetables and perhaps sundry species of rats that you find scampering around the market. Mine may involve a 30 page narrative on the 90 year old vendor I found at the first stall in the marker; his life history and recollections of how the market has changed over the years and so on. What makes your narrative superior to mine about the exact same market at the exact same point in history. No non-theist for example has come out to dispute the existence, accurately depicted in terms of their historical dates of relevance, of figures like the Pontius Pilate you mention, as recorded in the Biblical historical record! In fact a lot of historians in the recent past, have found the Bible to be invaluable in piecing together missing links on empires past (including the Persian empire you mention below) that the secular historical record had no clue about for thousands of years!


Quote:
There is plenty of similarity between Judeo-Christian belief and Zoroastrianism, Osiris, Anana, Romulus, etc and while the gods of these cultures are myths, that of Judeo-Christian has to be plugged into historicity. You fail to mention the role of the Greek (Hellenistic), Romans and Persian in the growth of what is today’s civilization. It is a large topic to cover.


The presence of a knockoff does not invalidate the authenticity of the authentic. Judaism for example, is antithetical to Christianity after the era of Christ, yet they claim to worship the same God. Islam too borrows heavily from the pre-Christian era. Some cultures believe an elephant is their god - that is their right. The Christian God says I am the one true God and there is none above me. I have showed you my Son - clothed in signs, deeds, wisdom and wonders the world has never seen to this day - whom you killed, yet in that death He will save you if only you believe in Him.

Belief is a choice. You can reject Him on your own terms or accept that you are sinful and need Him as Lord for Him to reconcile you with God eternally. Whose fault is it then if you wilfully reject Him and find out the hard way that everything you read in that Bible you choose to reject is true? Beyond the coffin, measuring the intensity, speed, characterization and dew point of flames in Hades in stubborn persistence at disproving God for eternity might not be a very fun recourse smile Shalom
AlphDoti
#242 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:51:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@MugundaMan you seem to be a smart man. However, there is something which I told your fellow Christian bros and sisters here before you came in, and that is do not call Jesus Christ a.s. God. He never said he is God. This is one of the reasons atheist find you guys really believing blindly.

How can you call a baby who was conceived by a woman God? He was born, cut umbilical cord, suckled his mothers breasts, ate, peed, pooped, slept, circumcised etc etc... How can you call him God when he himself tells you in your book "Our Father in heaven..." "I am going to my God, your God"...

Please bro use your brain a little bit (sorry I don't mean to offend)...
MugundaMan
#243 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:09:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
AlphDoti wrote:
@MugundaMan you seem to be a smart man. However, there is something which I told your fellow Christian bros and sisters here before you came in, and that is do not call Jesus Christ a.s. God. He never said he is God. This is one of the reasons atheist find you guys really believing blindly.

How can you call a baby who was conceived by a woman God? He was born, cut umbilical cord, suckled his mothers breasts, ate, peed, pooped, slept, circumcised etc etc... How can you call him God when he himself tells you in your book "Our Father in heaven..." "I am going to my God, your God"...

Please bro use your brain a little bit (sorry I don't mean to offend)...


Are you sure? smile
He has said it over and over and over again in His Word. Should I dish out the proof?
AlphDoti
#244 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:46:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
@MugundaMan you seem to be a smart man. However, there is something which I told your fellow Christian bros and sisters here before you came in, and that is do not call Jesus Christ a.s. God. He never said he is God. This is one of the reasons atheist find you guys really believing blindly.

How can you call a baby who was conceived by a woman God? He was born, cut umbilical cord, suckled his mothers breasts, ate, peed, pooped, slept, circumcised etc etc... How can you call him God when he himself tells you in your book "Our Father in heaven..." "I am going to my God, your God"...

Please bro use your brain a little bit (sorry I don't mean to offend)...

Are you sure? smile
He has said it over and over and over again in His Word. Should I dish out the proof?

I think you are new here, you joined just this year 2018 and you coming with guns blazing. We have discussed these things at length way back in 2013. I don't think it is necessary to repeat unless you have additional information. First check out what was discussed before and if you find it unsatisfactory, respond on that thread. Let us leave this one to Atheist.

1. Start here

2. Also here

3. What Muslims believe about Jesus Christ peace be upon him click here
Lolest!
#245 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 10:03:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
@MugundaMan you seem to be a smart man. However, there is something which I told your fellow Christian bros and sisters here before you came in, and that is do not call Jesus Christ a.s. God. He never said he is God. This is one of the reasons atheist find you guys really believing blindly.

How can you call a baby who was conceived by a woman God? He was born, cut umbilical cord, suckled his mothers breasts, ate, peed, pooped, slept, circumcised etc etc... How can you call him God when he himself tells you in your book "Our Father in heaven..." "I am going to my God, your God"...

Please bro use your brain a little bit (sorry I don't mean to offend)...

Use your brain too and stop following that Arab conman Muhammad!!
John 10
Quote:
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 20

Quote:
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#246 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 10:48:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
@MugundaMan you seem to be a smart man. However, there is something which I told your fellow Christian bros and sisters here before you came in, and that is do not call Jesus Christ a.s. God. He never said he is God. This is one of the reasons atheist find you guys really believing blindly.

How can you call a baby who was conceived by a woman God? He was born, cut umbilical cord, suckled his mothers breasts, ate, peed, pooped, slept, circumcised etc etc... How can you call him God when he himself tells you in your book "Our Father in heaven..." "I am going to my God, your God"...

Please bro use your brain a little bit (sorry I don't mean to offend)...

Use your brain too and stop following that Arab conman Muhammad!!

John 10
Quote:
...31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”


John 20
Quote:
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

You know we've been there before, where you have tried all these tricks before, but I will not tire to show you.

First you must understand the old Jewish culture where people were given "Godly" names and this confuses Christians who try to define the deity of Jesus a.s. Take for example Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim, plural to El); you are all sons of the Most High.'" Brother @lonest, "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim" which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used in Isaiah 9:6. Note "gods" is several "EL"s. So for someone to be called "god" or "God" in your Bible would not make him GOD Almighty Himself, the Creator or YAHWEH, or Jehovah. Also for your information, anybody who is a "Son of GOD" according to your Bible is actually "god" or "God".

As for doubting Thomas who said "My Lord and my God" to Jesus a.s. Reflect back when God told Moses a.s. "I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: Aaron and of the Believers" (Exodus 7:1). So "GOD" in the Bible also means master, leader, priest. Therefore, the doubting Thomas' statement didn't suggest that Jesus was his Creator. And Jesus being called "God" doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty. He is just another mere "God" like the rest of the believing creations as David a.s.
said "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" (Psalm 82:6)

I hope that clarifies the confusion.
2012
#247 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:08:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Without God, life has no meaning.

That's my simple position.

You cannot explain even one thing in this world otherwise.

BBI will solve it
:)
MugundaMan
#248 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:21:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Alphdoti, the reason you have been deceived is because you do not understand the nature and form of the Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As well as the nature and form of Jesus (both fully God and fully man) and how the two concepts interrelate. When Christ left majesty on high and humbled himself by putting on flesh to be in obedience to God the Father here on earth, He was by all means fully human, subjecting Himself to God the Father while He was in the flesh. All attributions of Him being Son in obedience regard this human phase. In fact Scripture talks of Him being equal to God but not using it to His own advantage while on earth. If you miss this critical point you completely miss the boat and not even the son of Ishmael and his specious arguments will save you from Abbadon with denials of Christ as God.



hamburglar
#249 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:22:24 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887
2012 wrote:
Without God, life has no meaning.

That's my simple position.

You cannot explain even one thing in this world otherwise.


My life has plenty of meaning and I don’t have a god in it. Life is what you make it, you can decide to live a meaningless life with or without god and vice versa.
AlphDoti
#250 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:36:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
Alphdoti, the reason you have been deceived is because you do not understand the nature and form of the Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As well as the nature and form of Jesus (both fully God and fully man) and how the two concepts interrelate... In fact Scripture talks of Him being equal to God but not using it to His own advantage while on earth.

Ati fully God and fully man? Does that statement make sense to you? I told you no wonder you make the atheist just laugh at you! In fact your Bible says in Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man... neither the son of man"

Ati which scripture talks about Jesus a.s. being equal to God? Can you share even a single unambiguous statement in that scripture where Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself said that "I'm God" or "worship me". I will give you first verse from your Bible which completely destroys your thinking: (1). Jesus says in John 14:28: "My father is greater than I."
MugundaMan
#251 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 12:56:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
AlphDoti wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Alphdoti, the reason you have been deceived is because you do not understand the nature and form of the Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As well as the nature and form of Jesus (both fully God and fully man) and how the two concepts interrelate... In fact Scripture talks of Him being equal to God but not using it to His own advantage while on earth.

Ati fully God and fully man? Does that statement make sense to you? I told you no wonder you make the atheist just laugh at you! In fact your Bible says in Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man... neither the son of man"

Ati which scripture talks about Jesus a.s. being equal to God? Can you share even a single unambiguous statement in that scripture where Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself said that "I'm God" or "worship me". I will give you first verse from your Bible which completely destroys your thinking: (1). Jesus says in John 14:28: "My father is greater than I."


Again, as I said if you cannot understand how Christ was fully man (Hebrews 4:15-16, Romans 5:18-19, John 1:14, 1 Timothy 2:5 + several more) and fully God ( John 1:1, John 20:28, John 8:57 and several more ) the boat has completely passed you by. Quoting Old Testament Scripture out of context is a favourite of the Ishmaelites. In fact your arguments are more bizarre than the atheists because you quote our Scripture that you do not understand - and out of context at that - in defending your own religion, instead of telling us from your own religious texts (verses and chapters) where and why (according to you) Jesus is not God. At least the atheist rejects all theism and is very confident therein. Taking that verse in Numbers out of context to make your bizarre claim is like someone reading Leviticus and wondering why Christians today do not sacrifice goats and rams for the remission of sins :). That's also why you Ishmaelites do not eat pork, and wonder why Christians do not preclude it in their diet despite it being forbidden in the Old Testament context Laughing out loudly, But I am sure even this simple fact will not make sense to you. I however am very glad that you take time to study God's Word. That you have rejected it puzzles me, but that is your eternal right smile
Lolest!
#252 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 2:20:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Worshipper_Muhammad wrote:
You know we've been there before, where you have tried all these tricks before, but I will not tire to show you.
You are the master of tricks. You can start referring to threads where you think you managed to confuse people.Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

First you must understand the old Jewish culture where people were given "Godly" names and this confuses Christians who try to define the deity of Jesus a.s. Take for example Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim, plural to El); you are all sons of the Most High.'" Brother @lonest, "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim" which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used in Isaiah 9:6. Note "gods" is several "EL"s. So for someone to be called "god" or "God" in your Bible would not make him GOD Almighty Himself, the Creator or YAHWEH, or Jehovah. Also for your information, anybody who is a "Son of GOD" according to your Bible is actually "god" or "God".

Jesus actually set himself apart from everybody else in John 10.
Quote:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

As for doubting Thomas who said "My Lord and my God" to Jesus a.s. Reflect back when God told Moses a.s. "I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: Aaron and of the Believers" (Exodus 7:1). So "GOD" in the Bible also means master, leader, priest. Therefore, the doubting Thomas' statement didn't suggest that Jesus was his Creator. And Jesus being called "God" doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty. He is just another mere "God" like the rest of the believing creations as David a.s.
said "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" (Psalm 82:6)
Suffice it to say even if Jesus had said he is God, the prophet of Satan(Muhammad) would still have made you believe Jesus' deity was no different from "master"./

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#253 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 3:00:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
Worshipper_Muhammad

You keep recycling scams since 2014! You were answered here already...
guru267 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad.

So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves??

Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#254 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 3:49:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Religion is very tricky.

Suppose an alien came to earth and without prejudice was sat through christian beliefs, then Islam beliefs, then Hindu, Jewry etc. whom would he believe to the exclusion of all others.

We are christian/Muslim/Hindu because we were raised in the geographic spheres of this religions. So as we defend our religions with zeal, spare a thought for your (hypothetical self) if Hinduism had colonized you and not Islam or MzunguLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

I would recommend all read about other religions that you do not subscribe to and you will be shocked at the similarities with your own. Chances are upto 85%,of the religious dogma is pretty much similar (good vs evil)regardless of religion.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
AlphDoti
#255 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 3:52:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Alphdoti, the reason you have been deceived is because you do not understand the nature and form of the Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). As well as the nature and form of Jesus (both fully God and fully man) and how the two concepts interrelate... In fact Scripture talks of Him being equal to God but not using it to His own advantage while on earth.

Ati fully God and fully man? Does that statement make sense to you? I told you no wonder you make the atheist just laugh at you! In fact your Bible says in Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man... neither the son of man"

Ati which scripture talks about Jesus a.s. being equal to God? Can you share even a single unambiguous statement in that scripture where Jesus Christ (pbuh) himself said that "I'm God" or "worship me". I will give you first verse from your Bible which completely destroys your thinking: (1). Jesus says in John 14:28: "My father is greater than I."

...you quote our Scripture that you do not understand - and out of context at that - in defending your own religion, instead of telling us from your own religious texts (verses and chapters) where and why (according to you) Jesus is not God. At least the atheist rejects all theism and is very confident therein. Taking that verse in Numbers out of context to make your bizarre claim is like someone reading Leviticus and wondering why Christians today do not sacrifice goats and rams for the remission of sins :). That's also why you Ishmaelites do not eat pork, and wonder why Christians do not preclude it in their diet despite it being forbidden in the Old Testament context Laughing out loudly, But I am sure even this simple fact will not make sense to you. I however am very glad that you take time to study God's Word. That you have rejected it puzzles me, but that is your eternal right smile

1. I tell you about my religious text: the true teachings of all prophets, including Jesus peace be upon him: "(Oh Allah) You alone we worship, you alone we ask for help." Quran 1:4. Say (O Muslims), "We believe in God and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted." (Quran 2:136)

2. Why we don't eat pork? (i). Deuteronomy 14:3-8 - "...The pig is unclean; ...it does not chew the cud, you are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses." (ii). Matthew 5:17-18 that Jesus said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets."

3. What am I saying: To bear witness that there's non to be worshipped except the creator, Almighty God. Moses (Peace be upon him) said "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.", Consistent with the first of Ten Commandments given to Moses. Jesus (peace be upon him) said the greatest of the commandment is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one", consistent with the first of Ten Commandments.
hamburglar
#256 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:03:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Religion is very tricky.

Suppose an alien came to earth and without prejudice was sat through christian beliefs, then Islam beliefs, then Hindu, Jewry etc. whom would he believe to the exclusion of all others.

We are christian/Muslim/Hindu because we were raised in the geographic spheres of this religions. So as we defend our religions with zeal, spare a thought for your (hypothetical self) if Hinduism had colonized you and not Islam or MzunguLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

I would recommend all read about other religions that you do not subscribe to and you will be shocked at the similarities with your own. Chances are upto 85%,of the religious dogma is pretty much similar (good vs evil)regardless of religion.


Well said. We are all born atheists. Theists are simply a product of their environment.
AlphDoti
#257 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:10:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
deleted
AlphDoti
#258 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:13:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
hamburglar wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Religion is very tricky.

Suppose an alien came to earth and without prejudice was sat through christian beliefs, then Islam beliefs, then Hindu, Jewry etc. whom would he believe to the exclusion of all others.

We are christian/Muslim/Hindu because we were raised in the geographic spheres of this religions. So as we defend our religions with zeal, spare a thought for your (hypothetical self) if Hinduism had colonized you and not Islam or MzunguLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

I would recommend all read about other religions that you do not subscribe to and you will be shocked at the similarities with your own. Chances are upto 85%,of the religious dogma is pretty much similar (good vs evil)regardless of religion.

Well said. We are all born atheists. Theists are simply a product of their environment.

@obi, it is not tricky. Suppose using your example, the person studying is of sound mind, and understands English, clearly he can tell the difference between two persons: (1). a baby, who was born, breastfed, peed, pooped, slept, prayed etc etc from (2). the one who created his mother, the sun, the moon, the stars, the one who created the food person 1 ate... How is it difficult to tell who is the God Almighty?

@hamburglar, it is the other way round. Remember I wrote here (the last paragraph) that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Hindu, or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So before the age of puberty, that baby is innocent. But when he grows up, he needs to study and correct wrong perceptions taught by his parents.
Apricot
#259 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:16:18 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
[quote=Apricot]

Quote:
The gospels contradict each other whether and when not doing so, they are growing the legend. No proof of the disciples or of Moses or of other characters in the bible can be adduced like that of Alexander the Greek or Pontius Pilate can be.


This is a complete fallacy. WHERE and HOW do the Gospels contradict each other. Please give us a few CONCRETE EXAMPLES of this so that we can take you seriously on this point.


If you care to listen to Professor Bart Ehrman, he lists dozens of contradictions in the bible. And Bart does not even consider himself a non-theist. I will find time to respond to your other assertions.

Bible contradictions
First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
AlphDoti
#260 Posted : Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:41:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
You know we've been there before, where you have tried all these tricks before, but I will not tire to show you.

First you must understand the old Jewish culture where people were given "Godly" names and this confuses Christians who try to define the deity of Jesus a.s. Take for example Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim, plural to El); you are all sons of the Most High.'" Brother @lonest, "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim" which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used in Isaiah 9:6. Note "gods" is several "EL"s. So for someone to be called "god" or "God" in your Bible would not make him GOD Almighty Himself, the Creator or YAHWEH, or Jehovah. Also for your information, anybody who is a "Son of GOD" according to your Bible is actually "god" or "God".

As for doubting Thomas who said "My Lord and my God" to Jesus a.s. Reflect back when God told Moses a.s. "I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: Aaron and of the Believers" (Exodus 7:1). So "GOD" in the Bible also means master, leader, priest. Therefore, the doubting Thomas' statement didn't suggest that Jesus was his Creator. And Jesus being called "God" doesn't mean that he is GOD Almighty. He is just another mere "God" like the rest of the believing creations as David a.s.
said "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" (Psalm 82:6)

You are the master of tricks. You can start referring to threads where you think you managed to confuse people.Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Jesus actually set himself apart from everybody else in John 10.
Quote:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.


Suffice it to say even if Jesus had said he is God, the prophet of Satan(Muhammad) would still have made you believe Jesus' deity was no different from "master"./

1. I stand by what I write.

2. Jesus answers you here 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods..."' John 10:34. Nowhere did Jesus ever claim to be "Almighty God" or "God". In fact the words of Jesus "My Father is greater than all." John 10:29

3. You are clearly jealous of Islam, that is why you can't sleep peacefully until you have hurled an insult towards Muhammad pbuh and his believers! It is he who asked Muslims to worship only the creator of the heavens and earth... the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Does Satan asks people to worship God Almighty alone?
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