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Demolition.com/ restoration of nairobi
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Regency is very different. It's not on a road reserve or reparian. The case of Regency was repossession of assets to recover stolen funds. Happens all over the world, US did the same for Bernie Madoff it's only that in Kenya the crooks walk free.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Masukuma, your logic doesn't apply to all the cases You can't compare laico with taj mall or that building near strathmore. The later two have huge negative impact on economy and environment respectively. For Weston I think land repossession with the buildings there in should be done with no compensation to the grabber If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,750 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Masukuma, your logic doesn't apply to all the cases You can't compare laico with taj mall or that building near strathmore. The later two have huge negative impact on economy and environment respectively. For Weston I think land repossession with the buildings there in should be done with no compensation to the grabber @masukuma raises valid points albeit in a condescending manner.. I would rather Weston be handed over to the government rather than pull it down.. Like in a national ceremony in full media glare.. So that we know it's back to its rightful owner, the people of Kenya. Same thing with what happened to KICC which had been taken over by KANU before Kibaki ordered it's resumption to the people of Kenya. I remember swimming in its water fountain with joy on that sweet day https://www.nation.co.ke...96302-lpqhcxz/index.html
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Regency is very different. It's not on a road reserve or reparian. The case of Regency was repossession of assets to recover stolen funds. Happens all over the world, US did the same for Bernie Madoff it's only that in Kenya the crooks walk free. yeah... sure... so road reserves and riparian systems are sacred right? dare anyone change a plan that was done in the 60s...the horror!!! as if people these days cannot do new plans! I think all the actions should be driven by arithmetics. Simple numbers because those are the only things that don't matter. Do we gain more as a system when we act a certain way or do we lose more. that's it! I am happy to hear someone say - we need to demolish that building (legal or illegal) AND expanding the road so that kenyans who go to work spend 10 minutes less on traffic, kenyans spend less on fuel as a system and this adds to quality of life that reduces load on our healthcare e.t.c. but knocking down a building just because it's illegal is acting like a zombie... Let's face it... land is a resource - no one built their own land (except the dutch). so use it and leave it there for your descendants. just demolishing illegal structures because they are 'illegal' means that your laws are not working for you. it's like hawkers or kiosks in a city - you should move them out when they become a burden to the whole system and not just for optics. You may not agree with me but from my vantage point - the guy at weston is no different from a dude who sets up a kibanda on a road reserve... there is land here... doing no one no good... why can't I make a buck out of it? Laws can and should change. We have by-laws in Nairobi that outlaw water harvesting... they may have been a good idea at the beginning... not so much now. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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masukuma wrote:2012 wrote:masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Regency is very different. It's not on a road reserve or reparian. The case of Regency was repossession of assets to recover stolen funds. Happens all over the world, US did the same for Bernie Madoff it's only that in Kenya the crooks walk free. yeah... sure... so road reserves and riparian systems are sacred right? dare anyone change a plan that was done in the 60s...the horror!!! as if people these days cannot do new plans! I think all the actions should be driven by arithmetics. Simple numbers because those are the only things that don't matter. Do we gain more as a system when we act a certain way or do we lose more. that's it! I am happy to hear someone say - we need to demolish that building (legal or illegal) AND expanding the road so that kenyans who go to work spend 10 minutes less on traffic, kenyans spend less on fuel as a system and this adds to quality of life that reduces load on our healthcare e.t.c. but knocking down a building just because it's illegal is acting like a zombie... Let's face it... land is a resource - no one built their own land (except the dutch). so use it and leave it there for your descendants. just demolishing illegal structures because they are 'illegal' means that your laws are not working for you. it's like hawkers or kiosks in a city - you should move them out when they become a burden to the whole system and not just for optics. You may not agree with me but from my vantage point - the guy at weston is no different from a dude who sets up a kibanda on a road reserve... there is land here... doing no one no good... why can't I make a buck out of it? Laws can and should change. We have by-laws in Nairobi that outlaw water harvesting... they may have been a good idea at the beginning... not so much now. So all the road side kiosks and street hawkers should come back? OK.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:2012 wrote:masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Regency is very different. It's not on a road reserve or reparian. The case of Regency was repossession of assets to recover stolen funds. Happens all over the world, US did the same for Bernie Madoff it's only that in Kenya the crooks walk free. yeah... sure... so road reserves and riparian systems are sacred right? dare anyone change a plan that was done in the 60s...the horror!!! as if people these days cannot do new plans! I think all the actions should be driven by arithmetics. Simple numbers because those are the only things that don't matter. Do we gain more as a system when we act a certain way or do we lose more. that's it! I am happy to hear someone say - we need to demolish that building (legal or illegal) AND expanding the road so that kenyans who go to work spend 10 minutes less on traffic, kenyans spend less on fuel as a system and this adds to quality of life that reduces load on our healthcare e.t.c. but knocking down a building just because it's illegal is acting like a zombie... Let's face it... land is a resource - no one built their own land (except the dutch). so use it and leave it there for your descendants. just demolishing illegal structures because they are 'illegal' means that your laws are not working for you. it's like hawkers or kiosks in a city - you should move them out when they become a burden to the whole system and not just for optics. You may not agree with me but from my vantage point - the guy at weston is no different from a dude who sets up a kibanda on a road reserve... there is land here... doing no one no good... why can't I make a buck out of it? Laws can and should change. We have by-laws in Nairobi that outlaw water harvesting... they may have been a good idea at the beginning... not so much now. This sounds like an argument for argument's sake. Illegal structures will either be called out now or at a later time or years. The owners know the risk they are taking and hope they can make a profit before the axe falls. But the axe must fall.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/4/2008 Posts: 1,289 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Took this photo last week. Sad that @masukuma doesn't think that there is a problem with the location of that building. All those matatus should be stopping at the building to pick and drop passengers instead of clogging the road. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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hardwood wrote:Took this photo last week. Sad that @masukuma doesn't think that there is problem with the location of that building. All those matatus should be stopping at the building to pick and drop passengers instead of clogging the road. I like your Mercedes Benz...
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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2012 wrote:hardwood wrote:Took this photo last week. Sad that @masukuma doesn't think that there is a problem with the location of that building. All those matatus should be stopping at the building to pick and drop passengers instead of clogging the road. I like your Mercedes Benz... Thanks. 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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simonkabz wrote:quicksand wrote:simonkabz wrote:
Weston is on public land yes, but I think it is Airport land (Wilson).
I had a hunch, how about the GoK taking over some of these properties......for instance, bringing down Weston may not help anybody at all. How about handing it over to Wilson Airport and going hard after those who approved any document that led to the construction? It will still have the same effect as bringing it down anyway, but with zero real loss to the economy.
How does this sound ladies and genomen??
Giving time to the criminals to game the system ...as long as the hotel (and others) stand, the perpetrators will move heaven and earth to defeat justice...I remember reading somewhere about Alexander the Great razing Persepolis to the ground, a great good wealth went up in smoke and no one could understand his thinking, he seemed quite mad! His reasoning was quite simple, and it was that as long as it stood as a shining gem, it would always invite ambitious, greedy and marauding kings to try and conquer it...it brought perpetual war to the lands. This is an apt analogy. When the corrupt get too good at gaming the system, employing ill gotten wealth to tie the bureacracy and legal system in knots, only the blunt instruments work. These are blunt instruments manifesting. Let the illegal buildings be reduced to rubble. You have a good point Quicksand, but there is always a solution to everything. What would you think of demolishing the Grand regency for instance, or lets say, closing it down instead of taking possession? I believe taking legal possession is not impossible, and for safe, harmless properties only. Kenyans are very awake, informed, and very noisy, and therefore gaming the system to get back illegal property from the GoK after a highly publicized demolishing stint sounds nearly impossible and wouldn't escape a messy public backlash. I'll go with this. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Ngalaka wrote:simonkabz wrote:quicksand wrote:simonkabz wrote:
Weston is on public land yes, but I think it is Airport land (Wilson).
I had a hunch, how about the GoK taking over some of these properties......for instance, bringing down Weston may not help anybody at all. How about handing it over to Wilson Airport and going hard after those who approved any document that led to the construction? It will still have the same effect as bringing it down anyway, but with zero real loss to the economy.
How does this sound ladies and genomen??
Giving time to the criminals to game the system ...as long as the hotel (and others) stand, the perpetrators will move heaven and earth to defeat justice...I remember reading somewhere about Alexander the Great razing Persepolis to the ground, a great good wealth went up in smoke and no one could understand his thinking, he seemed quite mad! His reasoning was quite simple, and it was that as long as it stood as a shining gem, it would always invite ambitious, greedy and marauding kings to try and conquer it...it brought perpetual war to the lands. This is an apt analogy. When the corrupt get too good at gaming the system, employing ill gotten wealth to tie the bureacracy and legal system in knots, only the blunt instruments work. These are blunt instruments manifesting. Let the illegal buildings be reduced to rubble. You have a good point Quicksand, but there is always a solution to everything. What would you think of demolishing the Grand regency for instance, or lets say, closing it down instead of taking possession? I believe taking legal possession is not impossible, and for safe, harmless properties only. Kenyans are very awake, informed, and very noisy, and therefore gaming the system to get back illegal property from the GoK after a highly publicized demolishing stint sounds nearly impossible and wouldn't escape a messy public backlash. I'll go with this. I still don't get how you can take "legal possession" of an illegal structure. The stones, cement, chuma etc. on that land still belongs to the builder. It will still come back to haunt you. And by government possessing it, does it stop being a road reserve or reparian land? The permanent option is to demolish and let the 'owner' go to court. Here is a hypothetical, If you own land and after years you go back and find a house erected on it, what would you do to solve the problem permanently assuming you don't want to sell the land? You can't buy the illegal house on your land and you can't occupy it either.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,750 Location: nairobi
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2012 wrote:Ngalaka wrote:simonkabz wrote:quicksand wrote:simonkabz wrote:
Weston is on public land yes, but I think it is Airport land (Wilson).
I had a hunch, how about the GoK taking over some of these properties......for instance, bringing down Weston may not help anybody at all. How about handing it over to Wilson Airport and going hard after those who approved any document that led to the construction? It will still have the same effect as bringing it down anyway, but with zero real loss to the economy.
How does this sound ladies and genomen??
Giving time to the criminals to game the system ...as long as the hotel (and others) stand, the perpetrators will move heaven and earth to defeat justice...I remember reading somewhere about Alexander the Great razing Persepolis to the ground, a great good wealth went up in smoke and no one could understand his thinking, he seemed quite mad! His reasoning was quite simple, and it was that as long as it stood as a shining gem, it would always invite ambitious, greedy and marauding kings to try and conquer it...it brought perpetual war to the lands. This is an apt analogy. When the corrupt get too good at gaming the system, employing ill gotten wealth to tie the bureacracy and legal system in knots, only the blunt instruments work. These are blunt instruments manifesting. Let the illegal buildings be reduced to rubble. You have a good point Quicksand, but there is always a solution to everything. What would you think of demolishing the Grand regency for instance, or lets say, closing it down instead of taking possession? I believe taking legal possession is not impossible, and for safe, harmless properties only. Kenyans are very awake, informed, and very noisy, and therefore gaming the system to get back illegal property from the GoK after a highly publicized demolishing stint sounds nearly impossible and wouldn't escape a messy public backlash. I'll go with this. I still don't get how you can take "legal possession" of an illegal structure. The stones, cement, chuma etc. on that land still belongs to the builder. It will still come back to haunt you. And by government possessing it, does it stop being a road reserve or reparian land? The permanent option is to demolish and let the 'owner' go to court. Here is a hypothetical, If you own land and after years you go back and find a house erected on it, what would you do to solve the problem permanently assuming you don't want to sell the land? You can't buy the illegal house on your land and you can't occupy it either. Using your example, it's possible to get paid by the person who has built on your land.. At market rate
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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hardwood wrote:masukuma wrote:2012 wrote:masukuma wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:kaka2za wrote:aemathenge wrote:masukuma wrote:once you are done with political statements, poems, warnings and other related gimmicks - you will still need to face the fact that Kenya has a huge issue with capital in general. some of the capital destroyed there was stolen from public coffers, some borrowed from banks e.t.c. that's capital that cannot be transferred anywhere. for a country that is always walking around with begging bowls - you surely have an interesting way of looking at capital in general. Suddenly, you have my attention, and I come in peace. The Republic of Kenya has numerous structures that have come up where they should not have as a result of "corruption". So many resources have gone into such structures. I would love to understand your opinion of the infamous Westone Hotel. There is the rightful owner of the piece of land on which the business stands. There is a development plan that the rightful owner had drawn up, the school or an extension of Wilson Airport, I do not recall. In your opinion, should the structures that house the hotel come down if the "correct" plan is an extension of Wilson Airport? Should the structures be turned into boarding, administrative and lecture halls for the primary school and may be extended into a secondary school if the rightful owner is the Department of Education? Or should the hotel be handed over to the Ministry of Tourism via Utalii Hotel as a training facility? Should the "current" owner of Weston Hotel receive compensation for the structures he has put up? In the "compensation" part of the above question, I reference the "Waitiki" Saga at the Coast where Mzee Waitiki was compensated for the loss of his "piece" of land invaded by squatters. Go ahead. Prove the brainchild behind Operation Green Suny the idiots they are. Give us your opinion of the manner in which the Weston Hotel File should be handled without destroying Capital. At this rate,there might suggestions that convicts should not be jailed but should instead be allowed to work for government since jailing them would destroy capital. I am talking about the jail term here. Yes. The piece of land is stolen. Yes. The "thief" at his own expense, has put up a hotel on the stolen piece of land. Yes. The "rightful" Government Department has "re-possed" its piece of land. Yes. The "re-possed" piece of land has "a structure" put upon it. The question now becomes: Should the rightful owner pull down the structures on its newly re-possed piece of land or use the structure for other purposes? For Tajj Mall, it stands on a road and a pipeline. As such, the structure must come down to give way to for the rightful road re-modeling and give access to the pipeline. What about Weston? How about separating the thief from the structure. Punish the thief yes. What should your tax money be better used for? Destroying the structure or converting it into an economic or quasi-government institution such as a Hotel Training Institution? Pray do tell. My fren, you can't chase birds away and leave their nests intact. apparently you can!! You laico regency can! it's not like you are a rich country with lots of buildings can awash with capital.... trying to think hard on where all the excess capital will go to... are you? just because you drive around and are used to seeing things around you and thinking this is normal -don't ever forget that you are in a poor 3rd world and indebted country. yes... there are worse countries to be in and in the same breath there are much nicer countries to be in. getting rich has everything to do with keeping more than you eat/destroy - simple good old math. right now we are in a frenzy... a well intentioned frenzy. if you stole public land - it should be taken from you. we all agree on that! so no more "Going forward someone will think twice before they grab public land" <-- yes... this would occur whether you destroyed the property or not... just like grand/laico regency. Regency is very different. It's not on a road reserve or reparian. The case of Regency was repossession of assets to recover stolen funds. Happens all over the world, US did the same for Bernie Madoff it's only that in Kenya the crooks walk free. yeah... sure... so road reserves and riparian systems are sacred right? dare anyone change a plan that was done in the 60s...the horror!!! as if people these days cannot do new plans! I think all the actions should be driven by arithmetics. Simple numbers because those are the only things that don't matter. Do we gain more as a system when we act a certain way or do we lose more. that's it! I am happy to hear someone say - we need to demolish that building (legal or illegal) AND expanding the road so that kenyans who go to work spend 10 minutes less on traffic, kenyans spend less on fuel as a system and this adds to quality of life that reduces load on our healthcare e.t.c. but knocking down a building just because it's illegal is acting like a zombie... Let's face it... land is a resource - no one built their own land (except the dutch). so use it and leave it there for your descendants. just demolishing illegal structures because they are 'illegal' means that your laws are not working for you. it's like hawkers or kiosks in a city - you should move them out when they become a burden to the whole system and not just for optics. You may not agree with me but from my vantage point - the guy at weston is no different from a dude who sets up a kibanda on a road reserve... there is land here... doing no one no good... why can't I make a buck out of it? Laws can and should change. We have by-laws in Nairobi that outlaw water harvesting... they may have been a good idea at the beginning... not so much now. So all the road side kiosks and street hawkers should come back? OK. no... did I say that?... can you read what I wrote after the part you highlighted in red ama literacy ended at "in a city"? kama kawaida hyperboling everything... my underlying message is simple. Think numbers! Forget silly proverbs about nests... silly laws that can be changed. Be driven by numbers not just destroying stuff because "it's ILLEGAL"... the same minds that defined what is illegal can decide to think harder and determine what needs to be done about it. some lame brain will still look at this and say... BUT IT'S ILLEGAL... and will completely refuse to move from that point... like laws made by man are natural laws like the Newton's laws or laws of thermodynamics or the law of conservation of energy. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:2012 wrote:Ngalaka wrote:simonkabz wrote:quicksand wrote:simonkabz wrote:
Weston is on public land yes, but I think it is Airport land (Wilson).
I had a hunch, how about the GoK taking over some of these properties......for instance, bringing down Weston may not help anybody at all. How about handing it over to Wilson Airport and going hard after those who approved any document that led to the construction? It will still have the same effect as bringing it down anyway, but with zero real loss to the economy.
How does this sound ladies and genomen??
Giving time to the criminals to game the system ...as long as the hotel (and others) stand, the perpetrators will move heaven and earth to defeat justice...I remember reading somewhere about Alexander the Great razing Persepolis to the ground, a great good wealth went up in smoke and no one could understand his thinking, he seemed quite mad! His reasoning was quite simple, and it was that as long as it stood as a shining gem, it would always invite ambitious, greedy and marauding kings to try and conquer it...it brought perpetual war to the lands. This is an apt analogy. When the corrupt get too good at gaming the system, employing ill gotten wealth to tie the bureacracy and legal system in knots, only the blunt instruments work. These are blunt instruments manifesting. Let the illegal buildings be reduced to rubble. You have a good point Quicksand, but there is always a solution to everything. What would you think of demolishing the Grand regency for instance, or lets say, closing it down instead of taking possession? I believe taking legal possession is not impossible, and for safe, harmless properties only. Kenyans are very awake, informed, and very noisy, and therefore gaming the system to get back illegal property from the GoK after a highly publicized demolishing stint sounds nearly impossible and wouldn't escape a messy public backlash. I'll go with this. I still don't get how you can take "legal possession" of an illegal structure. The stones, cement, chuma etc. on that land still belongs to the builder. It will still come back to haunt you. And by government possessing it, does it stop being a road reserve or reparian land? The permanent option is to demolish and let the 'owner' go to court. Here is a hypothetical, If you own land and after years you go back and find a house erected on it, what would you do to solve the problem permanently assuming you don't want to sell the land? You can't buy the illegal house on your land and you can't occupy it either. Using your example, it's possible to get paid by the person who has built on your land.. At market rate Ok, another hypothetical. You are 10 sons, you inherit 22 acres, you decide each gets 2 acres and you leave 2 for the road that connects you all. You leave it for a whike. An idiot ones and builds some settlements on the road. What would you do? You know, Taj Mall could look huge to all of us because it's beyond most of our visions but it's not even a drop in the ocean for the government.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/15/2010 Posts: 455 Location: Nairobi
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In this era of demolitions, how far away from Kenya Power lines should one call a safe distance to build a commercial property. Am talking about Sub-station transmission lines [not homes distribution lines]. ....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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tinker wrote:In this era of demolitions, how far away from Kenya Power lines should one call a safe distance to build a commercial property.
Am talking about Sub-station transmission lines [not homes distribution lines]. KETRACO paid a friend of mine an easement fee for 30 metres width right of way for transmission line to pass through his farm. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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This is wrong. Especially when we have tall buildings like the Warwick center next to the US embassy and the UN. FYI The UN Hq in NY is surrounded by humongous buildings. The US, UN and GoK should compensate the hotel owner.
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