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Kenya has no Welders.
Mastermind
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 1,624
Location: Langley
Quote:
During the construction of Standard Gauge Railway, it emerged
that the Chinese contractor
needed to import labour for
welding because such skills
were not available locally.
This same scenario also
played out when Tullow Oil
pitched camp in Kenya.


https://www.businessdail...700636-4jy35h/index.html
If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
Much Know
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 9:14:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Am a locally highly trained graduate welder amongst many others, trained by American experts in arc welding, brazing, Oxy acetylene, tig, mig by welders who have worked in U.S. Navy, oil rigs, taught in American community colleges and professors engineers, with tenure in leading U.S. campuses, the technology sectors including jobs in Kenya are controlled by very fake engineers, can never bother, only performance will separate the chaff and the wheat eventually, engineers from Kenyan public unis starting with "the" are rewards for a good secondary school grade in KCSE its that simple, signing tenders only ndio kazi wanajua, they graduate without knowing what a ratchet is from personal experience, ukimuuliza hii ni nini? anazubaa na kutoroka akikutusi ati wewe na hio ni mambo "technical" don't you see the mess in kplc, buildings collapsing, poor planning, Chinese diploma engineers doing everything for us etc, take anything from Kenyan engineers commenting on technology as cartel controlled non sense.
A New Kenya
Fullykenyan
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 10:00:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 560
Location: Eastlando
I know of a german, who taught some kenyans, how to weld and since his boys are doing a good job, this man is eating life with a big spoon in kenya.
Kusadikika
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 11:36:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,702
I am not surprised. Welding is one of the most sort after skills in the industrialized world. Look at the skilled Occupation list of both Australia and Canada. Welding is always one of the professions they always have a shortage of and need to import from immigrants. Another highly sort after profession is Carpentry. So if you are looking for good welders and carpenters around, wale wamechanuka walienda kitambo.
Njunge
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 11:52:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
We do have welders in the country but most are Jua Kali artisans who have not done specialized welding apart from your kawaida spot welding of windows and doors (I am not sure that qualifies as weldingsmile ). Most of this foreign contractors will require welders who are coded (i.e regularly tested and certified by Lloyds of London or institutions that are permitted by Lloyds). ......There lies the problem. Such institutions are few in Africa. Actually, closest home, the one i know of is in Durban and is owned by Alsthom John Thompson. India and Phillipines have the best and cheapest pool of certified coded welders. As a matter of fact, most British and French companies working outside Europe prefer the Fillipinos. Very disciplined and hardworking lot save for language barrier and they don't come cheap.
Angelica _ann
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 07, 2018 11:56:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
This is the true picture. We killed tertiary colleges & converted them to universities. Case in point is Kenya Poly. In my village is Moi Institute of Technology - Kitere, which is now Rongo University. We reap what we sow!!!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Njunge
#7 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 12:03:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
Angelica _ann wrote:
This is the true picture. We killed tertiary colleges & converted them to universities. Case in point is Kenya Poly. In my village is Moi Institute of Technology - Kitere, which is now Rongo University. We reap what we saw!!!


True. Kenya Railways had the 2nd best foundry training section in the whole of Africa. It died and with it, the skills and all that potential. A buddy who trained in Foundry left Kenya due to low wages and went to US. He is running an own workshop that is doing jobs for BMW. Sema pesa!!
tycho
#8 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 4:21:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Historically, there has been a trend that appears to have worked against 'blue collar' jobs for most Kenyans of African descent.

We are a white collar people.

For example, even here in wazua, @Impunity being a welder is taken as a serious tease... We prefer the 'engineer'.

Perhaps if we wish to get to blue collar in our times we may need to look seriously into robotics. Maybe there we can get competitive bids and build a cadre of welders etc.
Njunge
#9 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:42:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
tycho wrote:
Historically, there has been a trend that appears to have worked against 'blue collar' jobs for most Kenyans of African descent.

We are a white collar people.

For example, even here in wazua, @Impunity being a welder is taken as a serious tease... We prefer the 'engineer'.

Perhaps if we wish to get to blue collar in our times we may need to look seriously into robotics. Maybe there we can get competitive bids and build a cadre of welders etc.


My experience is that welding robots have limitations and are mostly found in the confines of assembly plants where their work is mostly routine. Plant maintenance comes with unique requirements and thus you would still require plenty of human intervention. I still think that we will not run away from establishing serious trade skills training institutions. In the meantime, the few who have those skills from Technical Schools and Polytechics of yesterday, will continue being in demand and money will surely follow them.
Kusadikika
#10 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 2:50:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,702
tycho wrote:
Historically, there has been a trend that appears to have worked against 'blue collar' jobs for most Kenyans of African descent.

We are a white collar people.

For example, even here in wazua, @Impunity being a welder is taken as a serious tease... We prefer the 'engineer'.

Perhaps if we wish to get to blue collar in our times we may need to look seriously into robotics. Maybe there we can get competitive bids and build a cadre of welders etc.


Unfortunately this is very true. The settler wazungus who settled in Kenya came from the upper classes in England and they taught us tabia za high class without the resources to support the same tabias. Poor Kenyans got aspirations to live in large houses, do no manual labour and be attended to by servants. How many Kenyans today even lowly middle class have a house with a "servants quarters"? Even a guy in shags with 1 acre has a separate shack that is "nyumba ya mtu wa kazi". Kazi(manual labour) is something dirty that is beneath anybody with a proper education. All fundis are despised because most fundis are the ones who did not make it to study at Colleges and Universities. This is very unfortunate because it shows in the quality of workmanship everywhere from buildings to furniture.
tycho
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 6:09:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Njunge wrote:
tycho wrote:
Historically, there has been a trend that appears to have worked against 'blue collar' jobs for most Kenyans of African descent.

We are a white collar people.

For example, even here in wazua, @Impunity being a welder is taken as a serious tease... We prefer the 'engineer'.

Perhaps if we wish to get to blue collar in our times we may need to look seriously into robotics. Maybe there we can get competitive bids and build a cadre of welders etc.


My experience is that welding robots have limitations and are mostly found in the confines of assembly plants where their work is mostly routine. Plant maintenance comes with unique requirements and thus you would still require plenty of human intervention. I still think that we will not run away from establishing serious trade skills training institutions. In the meantime, the few who have those skills from Technical Schools and Polytechics of yesterday, will continue being in demand and money will surely follow them.


I mean to say that I believe that these technical courses need an industry that can sustain them and in my opinion, the robotics industry can do the trick. Upon some thought I coined the 'Intelligence based Objects Industry'.

Firstly, a country like Kenya appears to have advantages in demographic capital compared to countries like even Germany.

The jua kali sector can be merged with the strong IT and the science based disciplines. It is possible to have such economic reforms that allow distributed manufacture and training - read revamped 'village' polytechnics.

BTW, we are now moving into economies that will tend to require continuous education for all citizens, even for post retirement populations. Sustainability ita toka wapi?
Njunge
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 6:22:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
tycho wrote:
[quote=Njunge][quote=tycho]
I mean to say that I believe that these technical courses need an industry that can sustain them and in my opinion, the robotics industry can do the trick. Upon some thought I coined the 'Intelligence based Objects Industry'.

Firstly, a country like Kenya appears to have advantages in demographic capital compared to countries like even Germany.

The jua kali sector can be merged with the strong IT and the science based disciplines. It is possible to have such economic reforms that allow distributed manufacture and training - read revamped 'village' polytechnics.

BTW, we are now moving into economies that will tend to require continuous education for all citizens, even for post retirement populations. Sustainability ita toka wapi?


I get you. Suppose, for a start, we stopped importing just about everything? ( I guess Kenya is the biggest importer of toothpicks). Industries would flourish, i believe and so would skills requirements. Naturally, we would have to adapt and i am sure Kenyans are good at that. Look at SA. Their industries are jealously protected. Kenya??.I won't be surprised if we are China's biggest dumping ground in Africa.
Sansa
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 6:33:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 344
Much Know wrote:
Am a locally highly trained graduate welder amongst many others, trained by American experts in arc welding, brazing, Oxy acetylene, tig, mig by welders who have worked in U.S. Navy, oil rigs, taught in American community colleges and professors engineers, with tenure in leading U.S. campuses, the technology sectors including jobs in Kenya are controlled by very fake engineers, can never bother, only performance will separate the chaff and the wheat eventually, engineers from Kenyan public unis starting with "the" are rewards for a good secondary school grade in KCSE its that simple, signing tenders only ndio kazi wanajua, they graduate without knowing what a ratchet is from personal experience, ukimuuliza hii ni nini? anazubaa na kutoroka akikutusi ati wewe na hio ni mambo "technical" don't you see the mess in kplc, buildings collapsing, poor planning, Chinese diploma engineers doing everything for us etc, take anything from Kenyan engineers commenting on technology as cartel controlled non sense.


Some punctuation would have made that an easier read.
tycho
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 6:44:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Quote:


Suppose, for a start, we stopped importing just about everything? ( I guess Kenya is the biggest importer of toothpicks). Industries would flourish, i believe and so would skills requirements. Naturally, we would have to adapt and i am sure Kenyans are good at that. Look at SA. Their industries are jealously protected. Kenya??.I won't be surprised if we are China's biggest dumping ground in Africa.


My view is that economies are sustainable when there is inter-dependence. We need to export and import, just like other countries.

So where we're not competitive, even if on toothpicks, we avoid.

But where we have a strong hand we play hard. From there we can gain advantages that may give us more say in international affairs.
Much Know
#15 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 7:21:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,548
Sansa wrote:
Much Know wrote:
Am a locally highly trained graduate welder amongst many others, trained by American experts in arc welding, brazing, Oxy acetylene, tig, mig by welders who have worked in U.S. Navy, oil rigs, taught in American community colleges and professors engineers, with tenure in leading U.S. campuses, the technology sectors including jobs in Kenya are controlled by very fake engineers, can never bother, only performance will separate the chaff and the wheat eventually, engineers from Kenyan public unis starting with "the" are rewards for a good secondary school grade in KCSE its that simple, signing tenders only ndio kazi wanajua, they graduate without knowing what a ratchet is from personal experience, ukimuuliza hii ni nini? anazubaa na kutoroka akikutusi ati wewe na hio ni mambo "technical" don't you see the mess in kplc, buildings collapsing, poor planning, Chinese diploma engineers doing everything for us etc, take anything from Kenyan engineers commenting on technology as cartel controlled non sense.


Some punctuation would have made that an easier read.

Had taken a little wine, Anxious Anxious Anxious Anxious as you can see, my post was almost midnight, will do my best next time. Also note: We were paying almost 10shillings for a single a few words on the mobile platform a few months back, even here space has value,ku-save nayo!!!
A New Kenya
thuks
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 7:28:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
Someone tag serkali, thought i had wandered from the green section Laughing out loudly
I care!
Kusadikika
#17 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 7:38:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,702
Njunge wrote:
tycho wrote:
[quote=Njunge][quote=tycho]
I mean to say that I believe that these technical courses need an industry that can sustain them and in my opinion, the robotics industry can do the trick. Upon some thought I coined the 'Intelligence based Objects Industry'.

Firstly, a country like Kenya appears to have advantages in demographic capital compared to countries like even Germany.

The jua kali sector can be merged with the strong IT and the science based disciplines. It is possible to have such economic reforms that allow distributed manufacture and training - read revamped 'village' polytechnics.

BTW, we are now moving into economies that will tend to require continuous education for all citizens, even for post retirement populations. Sustainability ita toka wapi?


I get you. Suppose, for a start, we stopped importing just about everything? ( I guess Kenya is the biggest importer of toothpicks). Industries would flourish, i believe and so would skills requirements. Naturally, we would have to adapt and i am sure Kenyans are good at that. Look at SA. Their industries are jealously protected. Kenya??.I won't be surprised if we are China's biggest dumping ground in Africa.


Guka, I think stopping importation would not be a solution because people would just make do with another substandard substitute. In my opinion the best way would be the setting up, implementation and enforcement of standards. In Kenya anybody who wants to build anything builds the way he wants and makes changes along the way as he or she sees fit. Contrast this with developed countries where there are set standards for everything. It is not just that you must have the building plan approved but that when you start to build it there are standards for materials and even processes that have to be followed. There is even a standard for how many misumaris you pigilia when setting the trusses of a roof.

The standards we set do not have to be as stringent as the ones in Western Countries but we can set our and ensure they are followed. This would create a lot of jobs as improvements are made to existing structures to meet standards and new developments are built to acceptable standards.

Standards in built structures would create employment because even though you can import fixtures someone has to physically set it to standard. For example you can have standards for installation of solar power fixtures even when you are importing all the equipment and still create a thriving industry in solar power installation.
Njunge
#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:06:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 921
Kusadikika wrote:
[quote=Njunge][quote=tycho][quote=Njunge][quote=tycho]


Controlled importation maybe?. Forget our standards (If we have any). In late 2016, i hunted for a certified scaffolding supervisor and technician the country over and i could not get any but wherever i go in the country, i see buildings coming up and erected scaffolds.....and then we get shocked when buildings in this country come down on their ownPray
Thitifini
#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:46:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
I'd blame this on commercialization
of thinking in the civil service.

Example, you will find the Planning & Economic Secretary of Kenya spending 80% of his time in foreign trips raking in per diems, leaving junior economists to do the country plans and policies.

The juniors grow up waiting for promotions so they can do the foreign trips (and build Runda mansions like their former seniors) leaving their new juniors to do the work.

At the end no coherent country plan as no senior did any mentorship to juniors.

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
murchr
#20 Posted : Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:00:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Thitifini wrote:
I'd blame this on commercialization
of thinking in the civil service.

Example, you will find the Planning & Economic Secretary of Kenya spending 80% of his time in foreign trips raking in per diems, leaving junior economists to do the country plans and policies.

The juniors grow up waiting for promotions so they can do the foreign trips (and build Runda mansions like their former seniors) leaving their new juniors to do the work.

At the end no coherent country plan as no senior did any mentorship to juniors.


So how do welders come in here?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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