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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Seles83 wrote:iris wrote:Seles83 wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Seles83 wrote:I think the Jubilee government is not doing itself service in quantifying the ROI, the ROI on investment is actually high. Elements to consider:
- Increased new traffic (people) to coast, quantify consumer spending and new investments by public and private sector to harness the gains
False equivalency. Tourism to the coast could be just as high or higher if there was a good road. If one can drive from Nairobi (Kangemi/CBD/Langata) to Mombasa (CBD/Nyali/Bamburi) in 5 hours (100km/h) then who needs the hassle of going from Kangemi/CBD/Langata to Syokimau to Miritini to CBD/Nyali/Bamburi?
- The reduction of use of road transport hence less maintenance
Reduced maintenance for the road but surely the SGR also needs maintenance? Plus the old railway could have been rehabilitated at a fraction of the cost.
- Significant reduction of commuting time hence increased productivity and capital efficiencies
False equivalency. The only reason SGR is "attractive" is coz of the current state of the NBO-MSA road. Single lane most of the way with sections that are poorly designed or in bad shape e.g. Miritini to CBD.
-New efficiencies achieved through the learning of completion of such major project (easier to implement future projects)
I have no idea what that means.
-etc etc
We are already past 5%, and it is only going to increase once the utilization approaches over 80% and completion of the project.
Transporters/importers are being coerced in using SGR. Many prefer trucks which can deliver to the final destination.
Just have a look at Thika and try and quantify the gains. Clearly ROI of 80% is too little...Kenya is heading place, corruption is just slowly us down..
What most people seem to most is that they are always talking about the ideal situation, and completely miss the point completely. The new rail system is changing the Kenya Infrastructure landscape. A new dawn to Kenya, a big step to the true vision of Kenya!! I have reassigned to believe that corruption is part of Kenyan culture and not synonymous with leadership. It has become a way of life!! We see How long have we been learning to implement "future projects" and yet our bridges are still collapsing? Anyway @Seles83, you sound a little bit like Mutua when he was the GOK spokesman. One thing I have learned about critics is that they rarely spot any opportunities. Instead, they focus on what is obvious. Kenya is really growing, so get out of your comfort zone travel around Nairobi....You learn more by observing the movement of capital and investment rather than reading Newspaper or TV News. I always compare a place from where it was 5 yrs and 10 yrs ago and then imagine where it is going to be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs and 20 yrs time. Corruption will always be there (sadly part of the culture now) and Critics will always be louder. Is Kenya perfect nope, but it is it improving ...Oh Yes!! I have never met anyone who has really made tonnes of money or brought about major change by being pessimistic. Be a relentless optimistic and your mindset will change dramatically. We have many critics but few change agents!! That's a red herring argument. Whereas infrastructure is needed, the cost of it is important. Risk/Reward Ratio. White Elephants do not benefit society though they may benefit a few. This is not about "optimism" "optimists" "pessimism" or "pessimists" [the red herring]. This is about sensible numbers/financials. Let's look at ARM. Or KQ. The expansion was heavily funded by debt. ARM: Mr Positive Paunrana even managed to convince an "army of experts in London" to lose 50% of intrinsic value in one year! And it gets worse. KQ: The less said the better. Look up Project Mawingu. Dubai also went through a rough patch but it had a super-wealthy cousin in Abu Dhabi. AD is a large oil producer and its coffers were full after the last run-up in oil prices. Kenya: We need the infrastructure but paying 2x (corruption and incompetence) provides us a dismal ROE. You argued the SGR will increase tourism and trade BUT the same could have been done by rehabilitating the "old" railway [WB had a feasibility study] and expanding the Nairobi-Mombasa Road. As a country basis, we should not leave our heirs with crazy debts [vs the assets]. Sri Lanka gave up a significant port to the Chinese in exchange for a barely used airport. Blind optimism is easy BUT one has to be pragmatic and that means sometimes one misses out on a few opportunities. Personal investments are OK. Take the risk. If you lose YOUR money it is YOUR money. Kenya, on the other hand, belongs 45mn+ people (& future generations). We have to take risks but not at the low potential rewards for the risks. Well in... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/23/2014 Posts: 925
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Kenya Airways staff to get Sh1.4bn shares freehttps://www.nation.co.ke...9556-7lkvoxz/index.html
 Don't expect the stock to rise for too long. “You can get in way more trouble with a good idea than a bad idea, because you forget that the good idea has limits.” - Ben Graham
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,215 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... EVERYBODY makes money at KQ but the shareholders! 1.4bn = ESOP for Employees 105mn+ for Ngunze Interest for Banks Taxes for GoK Boeing Tenderpreneurs Juices = cash for Kimani Rugendo Shareholders?  Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... EVERYBODY makes money at KQ but the shareholders! 1.4bn = ESOP for Employees 105mn+ for Ngunze Interest for Banks Taxes for GoK Boeing Tenderpreneurs Juices = cash for Kimani Rugendo Shareholders? Our day is fast approaching. Lets revisit on 22.06.2018
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/
There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. True. Tugange yajayo
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/9/2007 Posts: 288 Location: OZ
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The Executive pay/package is part of global larger issue. Switzerland tried to legislate but failed. The biggest problem of KQ is that it's government entity and prone to government interference. Good, in terms of bailout and bad in terms of tough managerial decisions. More monies, more problems...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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Seles83 wrote:The Executive pay/package is part of global larger issue. Switzerland tried to legislate but failed.
The biggest problem of KQ is that it's government entity and prone to government interference. Good, in terms of bailout and bad in terms of tough managerial decisions.
Tugange yajayo
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,215 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,763 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? Concentrate on deciding whether to sell Unga shares, ya KQ tuwachie!
COOP 255,000 ABP 15.85; IMH 5,000 ABP 35.55; KQ 604,200 ABP 6.96; MTN 23,800 ABP 5.20
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? The consultancy did not last for long. A few months and he was out. Remember the figures quoted by the media are gross, after tax should be less.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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Severence pay would apply to a permanent staff being retrenched and is based on the number of years worked?And I hope he paid his taxes.. obiero wrote:Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,215 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? Concentrate on deciding whether to sell Unga shares, ya KQ tuwachie! Unfortunately, I am a 1/45,000,000 owner (GoK) of a large % this piece of poo. Then I am a partial owner of some banks which lent good money to this piece of poo. I am also a partial owner of some banks that have shares in KQLC that owns a 30% piece of this stinking pile of poo. Finally, I am 1/45,000,000 owner of JKIA which will be given to this puerile piece of poo. I am actually rooting for this pile of poo to become profitable! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,215 Location: Nairobi
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ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? The consultancy did not last for long. A few months and he was out. Remember the figures quoted by the media are gross, after tax should be less. Regardless how long the consultancy lasted for, why was he fired [paid his termination dues] and then hired back as a consultant INSTEAD of remaining on the payroll while completing his assignment? Taxes are a given. The cost to KQ was 105mn regardless of what was sent to KRA. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/29/2016 Posts: 898 Location: Nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:Impunity wrote:ArrestedDev wrote:obiero wrote:maka wrote:[quote=obiero]Ngunze walked away with KES 105,000,000 as severance pay from a loss making entity Plus another 23 or is it 25m for the period he remained.... Balaa! But atleast the share is on another mini-rally https://live.mystocks.co.ke/[/quote] There was no other option than to pay him out. The consultancy thing was just to appease him, he knew how the loans were acquired since Alex and Naikuni left. MJ is a brilliant executive. Your remember he made a U-turn and announced Ngunze will leave. This is history for now which should never be repeated. What kind of shit is this severance pay?If as an employee your contract is not renewed then you get a severance lumpsome pay? How was 105M calcuated? Was this shot in his original contract? His contract was terminated by the employer and there is always a clause protecting the employee. He was paid for the remainder of term. Then why hire him as a consultant instead of having him finish off his term while doing what he did as a consultant? The consultancy did not last for long. A few months and he was out. Remember the figures quoted by the media are gross, after tax should be less. Regardless how long the consultancy lasted for, why was he fired [paid his termination dues] and then hired back as a consultant INSTEAD of remaining on the payroll while completing his assignment? Taxes are a given. The cost to KQ was 105mn regardless of what was sent to KRA. It was impossible/untenable to keep him as the CEO considering the management decisions he oversaw. He was kept to finish up with the loan restructuring since he was aware of how the loans were procured.
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