Your ancestors are not a myth - what drives your reverence to them IS! the idea that makes you subjectively deduce that 'reverence to your ancestors is worth a goat now and then' is the myth we are talking about! it's an idea... something in your head... that is why you said
- very subjective. let's test this - what happens if you don't give a goat "now and then"? what happens?

Not just PCEA. Most mainstream Church Cathedrals were built by the Guild of the free Masons. That is how practically every Free Mason lodge came to be located near a Church. It was a shelter for 'watu was mjengo'

Absolutely no idea. But I had an akward encounter a while back. An old friend had built a home in the village and had invited us for the house warming. Turns out most of his friends were "athuri a kiama". The muratina was brought and a "ruhia" given to teach of us. At some point one of the wazees pointed at me and wondered why i was holding the ruhia wrongly. Of course I laughed it off. Only to realize the rest of the guys were not amused. I had to apologize and one of the guys took me on a crash course on how to drink muratina from a ruhia.

That is why I likened the ciama to a members club with very strict protocols.

I hope that opens your eyes kidogo as to purpose of the Ciama cia Athuri and how they operate.

Just why should the culture of a man from muranga or Siaya be considered inferior to the culture of a man from Manchester England? All humans are equal and none should dictate to the other.

My friend read all my posts on this thread. I have given the account of admission to the Kiama kia Athuri, explained the promotion to the various stages within the hierachy of the Kiama, explained the agenda of Kiama kia Athuri. Here I have already told you that you will never know what is discussed in those Ciamas unless you are a member. You will only know two very unimportant things, eating the ngoimas and drinking muratina, nothing else.

I have also explained briefly which ceremonies require sacrifices to be done to God (Ngai). For your information in Agikuyu traditions there is nothing like sacrificing to the ancestors. This falsehood is peddled by those people who have absolutely no idea about the Agikuyu traditions, their cultural practices and ceremonies and their meanings.

A question for you @Lolest, Why would you draw a pararell between Jewish cultures in the Bible and the Agikuyu traditions?? That is very foolish of those people who do that...really foolish. The manner in which the Jews offered their sacrifes to God and the way the Africans offered theirs, wherever there was similarities was purely coincidental. Africans knew and worshiped God in their own way long long long before 15th century when the first white man (Bartolomeu Dias)first landed in Africa (Table Bay) following his arrival in a single ship in 1488.

I would like to refer you to a speech made by Lord Macaulay to British parliament in 1835 about India which also applies to Kenya literally word for word:



That is what the colonisers and missionaries wanted and did to our traditions and cultures in order to contain and dominate Africans...you are still tied to the foreign culture and that is why you always think that your rich culture and traditions stink.

Just why should the culture of a man from muranga or Siaya be considered inferior to the culture of a man from Manchester England? All humans are equal and none should dictate to the other.

While humans groups differ slightly biologically - the biggest differences happen to occur in the myths they intersubjectively choose to believe in. That's it... tofauti ya mwafrica na mzungu ni hiyo tu!the state that mzungu lived was no different from that ya mwafrican 1500 years ago. We were exactly the same for 65,000 years! The biological differences between mzungu and mwafrica did not start juzi. Tofauti ya Mkenya na Mtanzania ni hiyo pia... the myths we choose to believe in. Tofauti ya state of mkenya na mtanzania sio 100 years old. Same as the state of Kenyans and South Sudanese or Somali. Mjaluo wa Kenya and MDinka have very little biological difference but the myths they choose/forced/grew up with are different and it explains their differences. So the stark difference even in Kenya between one group of people (can be a family or an ethnic community or brothers are the myths they believe in). We do agree that some people are 'ahead' of others on some fronts. Denmark for example is a much nicer place to be when you are an old person than south sudan. All these differences are caused by 'culture' - the collection of myths we live our lives by. Unlike the differences in the biology of people - the differences in culture are HUGE... there are SUPERIOR CULTURES and there are RETROGRESSIVE CULTURES. The very fact that we have 'our' culture is a myth... enforced by these cultures to help them stay relevant and propagate. Each culture that did not have an effective 'propagation' mechanism -died when the guy who imagined it died! Once others choose to believe it... the culture lives on... if we don't - it dies ... most of these myths were indoctrinated to us when we didn't know better - when young and impressionable. The only way a RETROGRESSIVE MYTH can be propagated to a person who knows better is through guilt! But let's not fall for it! let's be held at ransom to hold on to what is demonstrably inferior and self-serving JUST BECAUSE OUR ANCESTORS COULD NOT COME UP WITH A BETTER MYTH especially because we know better myths exist! You are not your ancestor! It's quite likely that the ancestor who first dreamed what you were being guilt tripped into believing and enforcing knew what you know - they would not come up with what they came up with. They can be excused for their ignorance - you cannot!