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Why there's so much corruption in Kenya
tycho
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:08:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If corruption is rife, then it means that being corrupt is the safest way a player can go.

For example, would the reasons as to why a person would not steal money for trees be compatible with the reasons as to why that person goes to work, and his overall responsibility to others?

The answer unfortunately is that a normal person in Kenya would choose to sacrifice the trees for a plot of his own.

Because social security in Kenya is low. The individual has no assurance that if he/she works for 'yetu', then 'yetu' will take care of him.
tycho
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:13:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If a person in high position realizes that there's insecurity of tenure then the person will definitely make hay when the sun shines.

Otherwise the person will lose not only relevance, but also dignity.

And who wants that?

So one must be corrupt.

The game design of our country allows only for corruption.

The structure and intent of our constitution allows and encourages corruption.
alma1
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:30:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Stop there please

There is only one psychological analysis. The guy is a thief.

This idea of the constitution, the laws, my grandmother as a citizen is just funny.

Listen, a guy is corrupt because a guy is a thief.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

tycho
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:43:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
alma1 wrote:
Stop there please

There is only one psychological analysis. The guy is a thief.

This idea of the constitution, the laws, my grandmother as a citizen is just funny.

Listen, a guy is corrupt because a guy is a thief.


People are never created by 'God' or 'nature' to be thieves.

Besides @alma, would you say that you've never stolen, or that you don't steal?

It's not enough to call a human a thief.
alma1
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:56:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
tycho wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Stop there please

There is only one psychological analysis. The guy is a thief.

This idea of the constitution, the laws, my grandmother as a citizen is just funny.

Listen, a guy is corrupt because a guy is a thief.


People are never created by 'God' or 'nature' to be thieves.

Besides @alma, would you say that you've never stolen, or that you don't steal?

It's not enough to call a human a thief.


Now using the word God...

If you were not taught right by your parents not to steal, don't blame the people, the constitution, DNA or even God. You are just a thief.

Accept and move on. Don't drag the rest of us in your guilt trip.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

tycho
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:02:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
alma1 wrote:
tycho wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Stop there please

There is only one psychological analysis. The guy is a thief.

This idea of the constitution, the laws, my grandmother as a citizen is just funny.

Listen, a guy is corrupt because a guy is a thief.


People are never created by 'God' or 'nature' to be thieves.

Besides @alma, would you say that you've never stolen, or that you don't steal?

It's not enough to call a human a thief.


Now using the word God...

If you were not taught right by your parents not to steal, don't blame the people, the constitution, DNA or even God. You are just a thief.

Accept and move on. Don't drag the rest of us in your guilt trip.


People don't live by what they're simply taught.

People live by doing what helps them achieve their objectives.

And if lessons and objectives part ways, no theology can help.

Of course you can choose to play by denying the patterns of behavior and choice!
alma1
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:11:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
tycho wrote:
alma1 wrote:
tycho wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Stop there please

There is only one psychological analysis. The guy is a thief.

This idea of the constitution, the laws, my grandmother as a citizen is just funny.

Listen, a guy is corrupt because a guy is a thief.


People are never created by 'God' or 'nature' to be thieves.

Besides @alma, would you say that you've never stolen, or that you don't steal?

It's not enough to call a human a thief.


Now using the word God...

If you were not taught right by your parents not to steal, don't blame the people, the constitution, DNA or even God. You are just a thief.

Accept and move on. Don't drag the rest of us in your guilt trip.


People don't live by what they're simply taught.

People live by doing what helps them achieve their objectives.

And if lessons and objectives part ways, no theology can help.

Of course you can choose to play by denying the patterns of behavior and choice!


You can achieve your objectives using various means. I can decide to become a millionaire by supplying air to NYS or taking 100 bob from every matatu I wish. Or I can decide to go keep some chicken and watch as hundreds die but thousands survive.

The keyword here is CHOICE.

There is nothing special about being a Kenyan. All human beings face the same challenges.

Some decide to work honestly. Others decide to become THIEVES. The thieves try to blame it on everything under the sun but their choice of being a THIEF.

It's just that the THIEVES in Kenya have now become adept at making honest people vote for them. It is something that's being studied worldwide by other THIEVES. Even Al Capone had a problem with that one.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

tycho
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 6:20:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Alma, choices are never arbitrary. They have causes. And the causes can't be exceptional evil.

The choices can only be determined by conditions and possible rewards.

Whoever we may vote for must become a thief.

Even Wabukala is fast becoming a thief.

When we see things like these, we must question our instinctive reactions.
thuks
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 7:26:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
tycho wrote:
Alma, choices are never arbitrary. They have causes. And the causes can't be exceptional evil.

The choices can only be determined by conditions and possible rewards.

Whoever we may vote for must become a thief.

Even Wabukala is fast becoming a thief.

When we see things like these, we must question our instinctive reactions.

Aaaai. Bishop pia amekula mbuzi ya mtu ama tycho_speak?
I care!
tycho
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 7:34:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
thuks wrote:
tycho wrote:
Alma, choices are never arbitrary. They have causes. And the causes can't be exceptional evil.

The choices can only be determined by conditions and possible rewards.

Whoever we may vote for must become a thief.

Even Wabukala is fast becoming a thief.

When we see things like these, we must question our instinctive reactions.

Aaaai. Bishop pia amekula mbuzi ya mtu ama tycho_speak?


Watch this space...
mnandii
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:32:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
Everything is connected. It now appears to be that there is so much corruption because bear markets creates an environment where scandals become a big focus. Corruption is always there. During bull markets, people feel generally happy and do not pay much attention to scandals. In bear markets the negative mood creates a thriving environment for scandals.



See the way the NSE 20 Share Index has been falling steadily.

By the same token expect the May 31st demonstrations to surprise politicians by its impact.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
mnandii
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:41:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 2,304
mnandii wrote:
Everything is connected. It now appears to be that there is so much corruption because bear markets creates an environment where scandals become a big focus. Corruption is always there. During bull markets, people feel generally happy and do not pay much attention to scandals. In bear markets the negative mood creates a thriving environment for scandals.



See the way the NSE 20 Share Index has been falling steadily.

By the same token expect the May 31st demonstrations to surprise politicians by its impact.


If the market starts back up again expect the momentum to prosecute the culprits to wane.
Conventional thinkers waste time building shelters when they are unnecessary and then have no shelters when they need them the most. Socionomists do the opposite.
Rahatupu
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:57:28 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
tycho wrote:
If a person in high position realizes that there's insecurity of tenure then the person will definitely make hay when the sun shines.

Otherwise the person will lose not only relevance, but also dignity.

And who wants that?

So one must be corrupt.

The game design of our country allows only for corruption.

The structure and intent of our constitution allows and encourages corruption.
.


Applause Applause well saidApplause Applause @Tycho.
The idea of rewarding individuals due to their social economic status with state opportunities like jobs, tenders etc is a good example. Women Reps, MCAs, nominated..... jobs for "our people" in parastatals etc....pesa kwa vijana, basically state splashing cash for nothing.
alma1
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:01:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Rahatupu wrote:
tycho wrote:
If a person in high position realizes that there's insecurity of tenure then the person will definitely make hay when the sun shines.

Otherwise the person will lose not only relevance, but also dignity.

And who wants that?

So one must be corrupt.

The game design of our country allows only for corruption.

The structure and intent of our constitution allows and encourages corruption.
.


Applause Applause well saidApplause Applause @Tycho.
The idea of rewarding individuals due to their social economic status with state opportunities like jobs, tenders etc is a good example. Women Reps, MCAs, nominated..... jobs for "our people" in parastatals etc....pesa kwa vijana, basically state splashing cash for nothing.


It always amazes me how every problem in Kenya comes back to the constitution.

If you don't know, corruption did not start in Kenya with the new constitution. It thrived and became a household item with the old.

Those with parents in the civil service will tell you that their parents never went to work and hang coats there instead. To go do their mbiachara of selling coffee stolen in Uganda.

The issue of Women Reps and MCA's has nothing to do with the constitution. The constitution allows you to vote for whom you want.

I dare say that most voters vote for thieves. That has nothing to do with the constitution.

I'd rather entertain the idea that Kenyans equate a Prado to going to heaven.

The mtu wetu syndrome is like a study in idiocy. But you wake up and vote for mtu yetu. Now look at all those farmers in North Rift.

Mnataka constitution pia ikuje ikuvotie?

Let's change the thesis. It should be there's corruption because Kenyans are more inclined to vote in a thief than someone who can help them.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Swenani
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:10:26 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Hadi tuko na Elliot wave ya corruption. We are special
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
2012
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 12:25:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
The reason there's this much corruption in Kenya is because we celebrate thieves. Even churches invite these thieves as guests of honour to build God's houses with blood money.
You tell me how a young lad in the village will not aspire to be a thief when he sees all the respect and honour being bestored on these crooks in churches, schools and home where he/she is the apple of the parents' eye for building them a stone house unlike the neighbor's useless son who lives in a mabati house on their compound and a mere deacon in the village church. We're just a sick pretentious society.

BBI will solve it
:)
hardwood
#17 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:02:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
tycho wrote:
If a person in high position realizes that there's insecurity of tenure then the person will definitely make hay when the sun shines.

Otherwise the person will lose not only relevance, but also dignity.

And who wants that?

So one must be corrupt.

The game design of our country allows only for corruption.

The structure and intent of our constitution allows and encourages corruption.


Very true. I am very sure many wazuans would do the same if hired in high position in govt on a 3yr contract, and given a multi-billion budget to spend. Within the 3yrs he wants to have a 100m house hapo karen, a few apartments kileleshwa and a few block of flats hapo eastlands to cushion him when the contract ends, a number of cars to suit his status, kids in expensive schools etc. There is no way you can achieve all that with a 500k salary and bank loans within the 3 years. Note that your total pay for the 3yrs will be 18m before tax. So you have to bring kabura and ngiriti on board.

No one would want to go back living in eastlands when the 3yr CEO term ends. Even the society would not expect that to happen.
tycho
#18 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 9:50:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Alma, @2012, if most Kenyans are socialized in the same way in terms of cultural values, how is it possible that when it comes to voting then the majority will vote for a thief?

The only reason is that that is the best strategy. Mtu wetu is the dominant strategy because the way our political system is designed requires such thinking!

Kenya was created with an emphasis on a certain region. Therefore politics is bound to be regional. Because of how the effects of land abrogation for example would be felt.

Each high ranking thief, is a beloved Robin Hood in their back yards.
tycho
#19 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 9:57:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
Hadi tuko na Elliot wave ya corruption. We are special


We're not special. This is the nature of most if not all games.

Our approach to the object 'corruption' needs to change. Ethics is about adherence to game rules. If people are defying the rules of a game, then there must be something wrong with the game.

We can know the conditions that need to be satisfied for a low or minimal corruption state.

Yeah. Not eradicate corruption, but instead lower it through game design and redesign.

tycho
#20 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:02:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The anti-corruption problem is also and primarily a mathematical problem that systems will adjust to intuitively.

So the bodies charged with this job don't have qualified personnel and their job descriptions are ill defined.

No wonder there's so little that can be gained!

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