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Cytonn looks to list on GEMS
VituVingiSana
#81 Posted : Thursday, May 03, 2018 7:03:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have?

1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments.
Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits.
Impairment Losses of 47mn.



I dont think there's a definite number, you can walk in and buy shares like @Obiero is thinking of doing. Those numbers stink!
There still has to be a certain number of outstanding shares as of 31st Dec 2017.

Are the Cytonn shares traded on an OTC?
If yes, who operates the OTC?
If Cytonn also sells more shares on a walk-in basis then how does a current owner sell his shares?
Wouldn't Cytonn wants new investors to buy "newly issued shares" to get cash to invest vs facilitating the sale of shares held by existing investors which doesn't give them "new" cash like what happens on the NSE?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ebenyo
#82 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 4:31:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,996
Location: Kitale
its advisable to take a wait and see approach on this one.All listed counters in GEMS have had problems since its creation in 2013.
Towards the goal of financial freedom
Swenani
#83 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 4:55:06 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,236
Location: Vacuum
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have?

1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments.
Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits.
Impairment Losses of 47mn.



I dont think there's a definite number, you can walk in and buy shares like @Obiero is thinking of doing. Those numbers stink!
There still has to be a certain number of outstanding shares as of 31st Dec 2017.

Are the Cytonn shares traded on an OTC?
If yes, who operates the OTC?
If Cytonn also sells more shares on a walk-in basis then how does a current owner sell his shares?
Wouldn't Cytonn wants new investors to buy "newly issued shares" to get cash to invest vs facilitating the sale of shares held by existing investors which doesn't give them "new" cash like what happens on the NSE?


The shares are bought OTC. Once your place your order, cytonn tries to match the buy order with sell order
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
dsktop
#84 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 4:56:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2007
Posts: 53
AGM in 14days (May 18th),anyone with a link to audited FY17 financials...End year 31st Dec..
Chaka
#85 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 7:27:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
Would that info be for public consumption or strictly for share holders?

dsktop wrote:
AGM in 14days (May 18th),anyone with a link to audited FY17 financials...End year 31st Dec..

obiero
#86 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 9:25:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
Chaka wrote:
Would that info be for public consumption or strictly for share holders?

dsktop wrote:
AGM in 14days (May 18th),anyone with a link to audited FY17 financials...End year 31st Dec..


@sparkly will update us

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
sparkly
#87 Posted : Friday, May 04, 2018 10:27:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
obiero wrote:
Chaka wrote:
Would that info be for public consumption or strictly for share holders?

dsktop wrote:
AGM in 14days (May 18th),anyone with a link to audited FY17 financials...End year 31st Dec..


@sparkly will update us


Sorry I have no updates on Cytonn.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Jimmy Boy
#88 Posted : Monday, May 07, 2018 12:08:16 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/17/2014
Posts: 15
Location: Geneva
sparkly wrote:
obiero wrote:
Chaka wrote:
Would that info be for public consumption or strictly for share holders?

It will be public Info. Cytonn is a PLC.

dsktop wrote:
AGM in 14days (May 18th),anyone with a link to audited FY17 financials...End year 31st Dec..


@sparkly will update us


Sorry I have no updates on Cytonn.

Regards,
Jimmy Boy
obiero
#89 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 11:34:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
Full year 2017 results finally served https://www.exchange.co....-fold-to-ksh398-million/

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
obiero
#90 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 11:49:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
Fair value gains?? https://www.cytonn.com/u...ments-management-plc.pdf

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
Ericsson
#91 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:23:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,636
Location: NAIROBI
Controversial company Cytonn Investments announced their full year financial results for the period ended 31st December, 2017. Sales from real estate projects grew by 92% to KES 612M. This was accompanied by a faster growth in cost of sales which rose by 104% to KES 690.3M.

The company continues to rely on financing activities to drive its operations. This led to finance costs growing more than 290% to KES 285 million.

Negative Cash Flows

Moreover, company generated negative cash flows from operating activities and investing affirming their reliance on cash flow from financing activities. Debt to Equity ratio stood at 45%. Staff and operating costs grew by 69% to KES 1098.9 as the company continued to grow its operations.

Sh 569 Million Operating Loss

Removing fair value gains, the company made an operating loss of KES 569 million, worsening from an operating loss of KES 425 million a year earlier. The company incurred one of impairment loss of KES 178.2million with Kshs 95.6 mn being for Imperial Bank Limited and Kshs 82.6 mn being for Nakumatt Holdings Limited. It remains a concern why the company is attracted to high risk investment asset classes such as commercial papers from distressed companies and above market rate fixed deposit rates.

According to the company’s annual report, they acquired 12.5% stake in Superior homes against the 25% they had previously stated in their initial press release. Superior Homes is the developer of Green Park Estate in Athi River which was recently flooded after Stoni Athi River bursts its banks.

Net Asset value per share slid by 13% to KES 54 from KES 61.9 a year earlier after the number of ordinary shares increased from 84M to 98M. The 3 partners who founded the company own 79% of the issued shared.

Link:https://kenyanwallstreet.com/cytonn-investments-aggressive-accounting-in-fy-numbers/
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
obiero
#92 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:24:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,472
Location: nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Controversial company Cytonn Investments announced their full year financial results for the period ended 31st December, 2017. Sales from real estate projects grew by 92% to KES 612M. This was accompanied by a faster growth in cost of sales which rose by 104% to KES 690.3M.

The company continues to rely on financing activities to drive its operations. This led to finance costs growing more than 290% to KES 285 million.

Negative Cash Flows

Moreover, company generated negative cash flows from operating activities and investing affirming their reliance on cash flow from financing activities. Debt to Equity ratio stood at 45%. Staff and operating costs grew by 69% to KES 1098.9 as the company continued to grow its operations.

Sh 569 Million Operating Loss

Removing fair value gains, the company made an operating loss of KES 569 million, worsening from an operating loss of KES 425 million a year earlier. The company incurred one of impairment loss of KES 178.2million with Kshs 95.6 mn being for Imperial Bank Limited and Kshs 82.6 mn being for Nakumatt Holdings Limited. It remains a concern why the company is attracted to high risk investment asset classes such as commercial papers from distressed companies and above market rate fixed deposit rates.

According to the company’s annual report, they acquired 12.5% stake in Superior homes against the 25% they had previously stated in their initial press release. Superior Homes is the developer of Green Park Estate in Athi River which was recently flooded after Stoni Athi River bursts its banks.

Net Asset value per share slid by 13% to KES 54 from KES 61.9 a year earlier after the number of ordinary shares increased from 84M to 98M. The 3 partners who founded the company own 79% of the issued shared.

Link:https://kenyanwallstreet.com/cytonn-investments-aggressive-accounting-in-fy-numbers/

The article does well in giving a snapshot of the trouble with the company strategies but does not expose the whole story

HF 428,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 15,750 ABP 6.45
rwitre
#93 Posted : Thursday, July 05, 2018 10:37:44 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/8/2018
Posts: 507
Location: Nairobi
Interesting read....Cytonn came to mind

"By the fall of 2000, Enron was starting to crumble under its own weight. CEO Jeffrey Skilling had a way of hiding the financial losses of the trading business and other operations of the company; it was called mark-to-market accounting. This is a technique used where you measure the value of a security based on its current market value, instead of its book value. This can work well when trading securities, but it can be disastrous for actual businesses.

In Enron's case, the company would build an asset, such as a power plant, and immediately claim the projected profit on its books, even though it hadn't made one dime from it."
Angelica _ann
#94 Posted : Thursday, July 05, 2018 10:39:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901
rwitre wrote:
Interesting read....Cytonn came to mind

"By the fall of 2000, Enron was starting to crumble under its own weight. CEO Jeffrey Skilling had a way of hiding the financial losses of the trading business and other operations of the company; it was called mark-to-market accounting. This is a technique used where you measure the value of a security based on its current market value, instead of its book value. This can work well when trading securities, but it can be disastrous for actual businesses.

In Enron's case, the company would build an asset, such as a power plant, and immediately claim the projected profit on its books, even though it hadn't made one dime from it."


Haiya, wait for right of reply smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
mwekez@ji
#95 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 10:43:22 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
mwekez@ji
#96 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 10:57:34 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
Swenani wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
murchr wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
How many outstanding shares does Cytonn have?

1H PAT for the parent was 186mn including FV adjustments.
Employee costs are 1/3 of revenues and 90% of Gross Profits.
Impairment Losses of 47mn.



I dont think there's a definite number, you can walk in and buy shares like @Obiero is thinking of doing. Those numbers stink!
There still has to be a certain number of outstanding shares as of 31st Dec 2017.

Are the Cytonn shares traded on an OTC?
If yes, who operates the OTC?
If Cytonn also sells more shares on a walk-in basis then how does a current owner sell his shares?
Wouldn't Cytonn wants new investors to buy "newly issued shares" to get cash to invest vs facilitating the sale of shares held by existing investors which doesn't give them "new" cash like what happens on the NSE?


The shares are bought OTC. Once your place your order, cytonn tries to match the buy order with sell order


@VVS, Number of shares is 98,265,550

Net Book Value is Kes. 671,667,538

Net Book Value per share is Kes. 6.84

At the said Market Price Per Shares of Kes. 60, the share is trading at a Price to Book Value Ratio 8.78 times. Crazy!

Which broker is operating the OTC?
Angelica _ann
#97 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 11:10:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,901


Hiyo right of reply ni kali kweli kweli!!!! Keep it up Cytonn. Smoke out the fakes!!!!!
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
xxxxx
#98 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 11:12:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503


He he...This is a much better attempt than that NONSENSICAL DIMWIT REMARK by Edwin. Cytonn should learn to get rich quietly.
KulaRaha
#99 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 12:24:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Kali how? Covering up the ponzi with fake profits isn't kali, it for dimwits to feel their money is safe there.
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
VituVingiSana
#100 Posted : Friday, July 06, 2018 12:29:16 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,050
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:


Hiyo right of reply ni kali kweli kweli!!!! Keep it up Cytonn. Smoke out the fakes!!!!!

Currently [it may change] I may not invest in Cytonn but Alai is a blackmailer and a nasty guy. Very nasty. You can feel his nastiness when you are around him.

He may be right about Cytonn. Or not.

I hope none of us ever get caught up in his web.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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