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Cytonn looks to list on GEMS
Fyatu
#41 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 9:22:21 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
Angelica _ann wrote:
obiero wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Chaka wrote:
Forgive my ignorance..if a firm joins the NSE via GEMS ,is there a leeway to "upgrade" to a "better" segment later or they will be stuck with GEMS?(choices have consequences)...

whiteowl wrote:


Very risky segment You're better off investing in cryptocurrency.At least those goes up and down.The only direction for GEMS is down.



Yap better segment of Directors' bank account!!!

@fyatu will give you a first hand experience of GEMS nastiness


Wale misungu Sad d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


I was burnt to recognition after diving head-first into Atlas Development Support Services(ADSS), later known as Atlas Africa Industries. I learn't the hard way that buying the hype(e.g., Chancho project) is for lack of a better word Speculating. Nowadays, my strategy is to evaluate a firm's past earnings first and then do what long-termers call subjective/qualitative analysis with an aim of predicting future earnings and evaluating risk.This involves a lot of research like visiting supermarkets and malls, standing at a shelf where the product is displayed and chatting with supermarket attendants etc. For example, if i wanted to invest in Deacons today i will visit a couple of malls where they have shops e.g., during Easter, Xmas, Endmonth, or any other day when they have a sale and observe foot traffick to the cashier...not foot traffic through the door. I will then ask myself questions about Kenyans future ability to purchase goods from deacons, who the competitors are, who the management is, look at balance sheets for the previous 5 years and also evaluate the macro economics of the country(KE) going forward. Sometimes I also find myself visiting hardware stores, mjengos and even major infrastructure projects and asking schoolboy questions like "where do you buy the cement?". After my experiences with Atlas and Tranny, i have become very serious with where i put my money.

Another example is,

If Simba cement was to list the same day as Cytonn, i would invest in Simba cement just for the mere fact that i see truckfulls being loaded with Simba cement everyday and my rough guess-timate that the demand of cement will grow at a modest estimate of 6% per annum for the next ten years and also that there is evidence that Simba is well placed in reaping from this demand because they control the value chain from clinker to power production, to finished product. My decision will also be influenced by the NAV, ROE,gross profit margins and other ratios etc. Again, i have to look for the final year reports and find these ratios for myself and then try predict the future earnings.Cytonn seems to be selling the dream. As @VVS has posited, they will hire a firm who will use kizungu mingi to hype their projects which are yet to be launched or yet to start making money(Think home Africa).If you are not careful you will be naswad hook, line and sinker in golden handcuffs forever if you are lucky, but for my case the wakora at Atlas even brought down their website and disappeared without a trace.

DISCLAIMER: Nobody can predict the future
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
obiero
#42 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 9:30:46 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,213
Location: nairobi
Fyatu wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
obiero wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Chaka wrote:
Forgive my ignorance..if a firm joins the NSE via GEMS ,is there a leeway to "upgrade" to a "better" segment later or they will be stuck with GEMS?(choices have consequences)...

whiteowl wrote:


Very risky segment You're better off investing in cryptocurrency.At least those goes up and down.The only direction for GEMS is down.



Yap better segment of Directors' bank account!!!

@fyatu will give you a first hand experience of GEMS nastiness


Wale misungu Sad d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


I was burnt to recognition after diving head-first into Atlas Development Support Services(ADSS), later known as Atlas Africa Industries. I learn't the hard way that buying the hype(e.g., Chancho project) is for lack of a better word Speculating. Nowadays, my strategy is to evaluate a firm's past earnings first and then do what long-termers call subjective/qualitative analysis with an aim of predicting future earnings and evaluating risk.This involves a lot of research like visiting supermarkets and malls, standing at a shelf where the product is displayed and chatting with supermarket attendants etc. For example, if i wanted to invest in Deacons today i will visit a couple of malls where they have shops e.g., during Easter, Xmas, Endmonth, or any other day when they have a sale and observe foot traffick to the cashier...not foot traffic through the door. I will then ask myself questions about Kenyans future ability to purchase goods from deacons, who the competitors are, who the management is, look at balance sheets for the previous 5 years and also evaluate the macro economics of the country(KE) going forward. Sometimes I also find myself visiting hardware stores, mjengos and even major infrastructure projects and asking schoolboy questions like "where do you buy the cement?". After my experiences with Atlas and Tranny, i have become very serious with where i put my money.

Another example is,

If Simba cement was to list the same day as Cytonn, i would invest in Simba cement just for the mere fact that i see truckfulls being loaded with Simba cement everyday and my rough guess-timate that the demand of cement will grow at a modest estimate of 6% per annum for the next ten years and also that there is evidence that Simba is well placed in reaping from this demand because they control the value chain from clinker to power production, to finished product. My decision will also be influenced by the NAV, ROE,gross profit margins and other ratios etc. Again, i have to look for the final year reports and find these ratios for myself and then try predict the future earnings.Cytonn seems to be selling the dream. As @VVS has posited, they will hire a firm who will use kizungu mingi to hype their projects which are yet to be launched or yet to start making money(Think home Africa).If you are not careful you will be naswad hook, line and sinker in golden handcuffs forever if you are lucky, but for my case the wakora at Atlas even brought down their website and disappeared without a trace.

DISCLAIMER: Nobody can predict the future

@Fyatu I have read every line of your statement and I feel like framing it in my office under a large plaque, as continued guidance to investors that lack of information is the main difference between the poverty and wealth

KQ ABP 4.26
Fyatu
#43 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:26:18 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
obiero wrote:
Fyatu wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
obiero wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
Chaka wrote:
Forgive my ignorance..if a firm joins the NSE via GEMS ,is there a leeway to "upgrade" to a "better" segment later or they will be stuck with GEMS?(choices have consequences)...

whiteowl wrote:


Very risky segment You're better off investing in cryptocurrency.At least those goes up and down.The only direction for GEMS is down.



Yap better segment of Directors' bank account!!!

@fyatu will give you a first hand experience of GEMS nastiness


Wale misungu Sad d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!


I was burnt to recognition after diving head-first into Atlas Development Support Services(ADSS), later known as Atlas Africa Industries. I learn't the hard way that buying the hype(e.g., Chancho project) is for lack of a better word Speculating. Nowadays, my strategy is to evaluate a firm's past earnings first and then do what long-termers call subjective/qualitative analysis with an aim of predicting future earnings and evaluating risk.This involves a lot of research like visiting supermarkets and malls, standing at a shelf where the product is displayed and chatting with supermarket attendants etc. For example, if i wanted to invest in Deacons today i will visit a couple of malls where they have shops e.g., during Easter, Xmas, Endmonth, or any other day when they have a sale and observe foot traffick to the cashier...not foot traffic through the door. I will then ask myself questions about Kenyans future ability to purchase goods from deacons, who the competitors are, who the management is, look at balance sheets for the previous 5 years and also evaluate the macro economics of the country(KE) going forward. Sometimes I also find myself visiting hardware stores, mjengos and even major infrastructure projects and asking schoolboy questions like "where do you buy the cement?". After my experiences with Atlas and Tranny, i have become very serious with where i put my money.

Another example is,

If Simba cement was to list the same day as Cytonn, i would invest in Simba cement just for the mere fact that i see truckfulls being loaded with Simba cement everyday and my rough guess-timate that the demand of cement will grow at a modest estimate of 6% per annum for the next ten years and also that there is evidence that Simba is well placed in reaping from this demand because they control the value chain from clinker to power production, to finished product. My decision will also be influenced by the NAV, ROE,gross profit margins and other ratios etc. Again, i have to look for the final year reports and find these ratios for myself and then try predict the future earnings.Cytonn seems to be selling the dream. As @VVS has posited, they will hire a firm who will use kizungu mingi to hype their projects which are yet to be launched or yet to start making money(Think home Africa).If you are not careful you will be naswad hook, line and sinker in golden handcuffs forever if you are lucky, but for my case the wakora at Atlas even brought down their website and disappeared without a trace.

DISCLAIMER: Nobody can predict the future

@Fyatu I have read every line of your statement and I feel like framing it in my office under a large plaque, as continued guidance to investors that lack of information is the main difference between the poverty and wealth


As they say, experience is the best teacher
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
aemathenge
#44 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 11:24:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
With wild anticipation and batted breath, I await @Horton's rebuttal to the hereinbelow sentiments by @Fyatu.

Fyatu wrote:

I was burnt to (beyond) recognition after diving head-first into Atlas Development Support Services(ADSS), later known as Atlas Africa Industries.

I learn't the hard way that buying the hype (e.g., Chancho project) is for lack of a better word Speculating.

Nowadays, my strategy is to evaluate a firm's past earnings first and then do what long-termers call subjective/qualitative analysis with an aim of predicting future earnings and evaluating risk.

This involves a lot of research like visiting supermarkets and malls, standing at a shelf where the product is displayed and chatting with supermarket attendants etc.

For example, if i wanted to invest in Deacons today i will visit a couple of malls where they have shops e.g., during Easter, Xmas, Endmonth, or any other day when they have a sale and observe foot traffick to the cashier...not foot traffic through the door.

I will then ask myself questions:

about Kenyans future ability to purchase goods from deacons,

who the competitors are,

who the management is,

look at balance sheets for the previous 5 years

and also evaluate the macro economics of the country(KE) going forward.

Sometimes I also find myself visiting hardware stores, mjengos and even major infrastructure projects and asking schoolboy questions like "where do you buy the cement?".

After my experiences with Atlas and Tranny, i have become very serious with where i put my money.

Another example is,

If Simba cement was to list the same day as Cytonn, i would invest in Simba cement just for:

The mere fact that i see truckfulls being loaded with Simba cement everyday

And my rough guess-timate that the demand of cement will grow at a modest estimate of 6% per annum for the next ten years

And also that there is evidence that Simba is well placed in reaping from this demand because they control the value chain from clinker to power production, to finished product.

My decision will also be influenced by the NAV, ROE, gross profit margins and other ratios etc.

Again, i have to look for the final year reports and find these ratios for myself and then try predict the future earnings.

Cytonn seems to be selling the dream.

As @VVS has posited, they will hire a firm who will use kizungu mingi to:

hype their projects which are yet to be launched

or yet to start making money(Think home Africa.

If you are not careful you will be naswad hook, line and sinker in golden handcuffs forever if you are lucky,

(but) for my case the wakora at Atlas even brought down their website and disappeared without a trace.

DISCLAIMER: Nobody can predict the future
Angelica _ann
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 11:48:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,935
aemathenge wrote:
With wild anticipation and batted breath, I await @Horton's rebuttal to the hereinbelow sentiments by @Fyatu.

Fyatu wrote:

I was burnt to (beyond) recognition after diving head-first into Atlas Development Support Services(ADSS), later known as Atlas Africa Industries.

I learn't the hard way that buying the hype (e.g., Chancho project) is for lack of a better word Speculating.

Nowadays, my strategy is to evaluate a firm's past earnings first and then do what long-termers call subjective/qualitative analysis with an aim of predicting future earnings and evaluating risk.

This involves a lot of research like visiting supermarkets and malls, standing at a shelf where the product is displayed and chatting with supermarket attendants etc.

For example, if i wanted to invest in Deacons today i will visit a couple of malls where they have shops e.g., during Easter, Xmas, Endmonth, or any other day when they have a sale and observe foot traffick to the cashier...not foot traffic through the door.

I will then ask myself questions:

about Kenyans future ability to purchase goods from deacons,

who the competitors are,

who the management is,

look at balance sheets for the previous 5 years

and also evaluate the macro economics of the country(KE) going forward.

Sometimes I also find myself visiting hardware stores, mjengos and even major infrastructure projects and asking schoolboy questions like "where do you buy the cement?".

After my experiences with Atlas and Tranny, i have become very serious with where i put my money.

Another example is,

If Simba cement was to list the same day as Cytonn, i would invest in Simba cement just for:

The mere fact that i see truckfulls being loaded with Simba cement everyday

And my rough guess-timate that the demand of cement will grow at a modest estimate of 6% per annum for the next ten years

And also that there is evidence that Simba is well placed in reaping from this demand because they control the value chain from clinker to power production, to finished product.

My decision will also be influenced by the NAV, ROE, gross profit margins and other ratios etc.

Again, i have to look for the final year reports and find these ratios for myself and then try predict the future earnings.

Cytonn seems to be selling the dream.

As @VVS has posited, they will hire a firm who will use kizungu mingi to:

hype their projects which are yet to be launched

or yet to start making money(Think home Africa.

If you are not careful you will be naswad hook, line and sinker in golden handcuffs forever if you are lucky,

(but) for my case the wakora at Atlas even brought down their website and disappeared without a trace.

DISCLAIMER: Nobody can predict the future


Me too smile
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
Aguytrying
#46 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 1:25:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
I'm among those surprised that cytonn has survived this long. To me, this rush to list on the stock market is a red flag. What is the hurry, the firm is very new. I feel like they like being visible and letting everyone know that they are there, instead of working quietly and letting their results speak for you. I just dont buy it. For those who are in, i would sell on the listing rally and wait for the dust to settle. we've seen this with home Afrika just recently
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
obiero
#47 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 1:37:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,213
Location: nairobi
Aguytrying wrote:
I'm among those surprised that cytonn has survived this long. To me, this rush to list on the stock market is a red flag. What is the hurry, the firm is very new. I feel like they like being visible and letting everyone know that they are there, instead of working quietly and letting their results speak for you. I just dont buy it. For those who are in, i would sell on the listing rally and wait for the dust to settle. we've seen this with home Afrika just recently

@Aguytrying soo true. its odd that any other person would see it differently. this thing will tank on the first day of listing.. KES 60 is too dear a price

KQ ABP 4.26
Horton
#48 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 2:09:19 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
I'm among those surprised that cytonn has survived this long. To me, this rush to list on the stock market is a red flag. What is the hurry, the firm is very new. I feel like they like being visible and letting everyone know that they are there, instead of working quietly and letting their results speak for you. I just dont buy it. For those who are in, i would sell on the listing rally and wait for the dust to settle. we've seen this with home Afrika just recently

@Aguytrying soo true. its odd that any other person would see it differently. this thing will tank on the first day of listing.. KES 60 is too dear a price



Boss we have seen how your shares are doing respectively. Mine are doing well I do good diligent research, not rely on Kahawa tundu 🤣🤣

If it’s not worth your time, move on to other stocks wacheni Kelele ya bure with no facts to back you up
aemathenge
#49 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 2:18:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Horton wrote:
Boss we have seen how your shares are doing respectively. Mine are doing well I do good diligent research, not rely on Kahawa tundu 🤣🤣

If it’s not worth your time, move on to other stocks wacheni Kelele ya bure with no facts to back you up

Coward.
obiero
#50 Posted : Wednesday, May 02, 2018 2:26:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,213
Location: nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
Horton wrote:
Boss we have seen how your shares are doing respectively. Mine are doing well I do good diligent research, not rely on Kahawa tundu 🤣🤣

If it’s not worth your time, move on to other stocks wacheni Kelele ya bure with no facts to back you up

Coward.

Tupunguze pressure. All views are welcome.. This is the wazua way of open critique, tukinusa nyani tunasema uvundo upo!

KQ ABP 4.26
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