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religion demystified
AlphDoti
#41 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 12:38:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
AlphDoti wrote:
otienosmall wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

BARZAQ/BARZAK for those who profess the Catholic faith is same as Purgatory. The Doctrine of Purgatory #1030 (catechism of the Catholic church) states: All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. This is itself false man-made doctrine not based on biblical teaching.

1. Issue one

@otieno, can you share Biblical teaching on what happens after death?

We will handle all the other allegations you have made, one by one... come baby come!

@otienosmall I'm still waiting for your response on the above question.

Unless your copy pasting was just rhetoric and baseless.
AlphDoti
#42 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:48:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
otienosmall wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.

...The two shares very many other doctrines/similarities e.g. the crescent moon symbols, the star (these two adapted from the ancient worship of the Sun god), the rosary, the two believes that only they are the one true church/religion. require mandatory fasting.

2. Issue Two:

First, just to remind you that The star and crescent are just SYMBOLS OF ISLAM.

Secondly, the symbol emerged into popular use during the 19th century as a modernistic national symbol for the Ottoman Empire during the Westernizing Tanzimat reforms. Islam came back during approx. 570 AD... If the star and moon was worshiped by Prophet Muhaamd (pbuh), then won't we have seen this then? So this destroys you claims.

Thirdly, it is funny how some anti-Islamics (like your @otienosmall or the site where you picked the stuff from) claim that Muslims worship a moon god when Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran directly refuted this in The Noble Quran, 41:37: "Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.". The Quran 41:37 further says: Ni alama ya uumbaji ya M/Mungu. Also Quran 12:3 says "Maana ya alama hizi..."

Fourthly, if you knew your Bible, you would have seen in Yeremia 31:21 "Jiwekee alama za njia." Also Deuteronomy 21:22 "Aliyesulubiwa amelaaniwa."
AlphDoti
#43 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 2:01:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
In summary of issue no.2:

What is the meaning of star and crescent is Islam. They are symbols. They are not worshiped. They have no harm to anyone. Quran 41:37 says: "Among His Sings are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." Also the Bible too tells us the use of symbols. Jeremia 31:21 says: "Weka alama za barabara, weka vibao vya kuelekeza. Zingatia vema njia kuu, barabara ile unayoipita. Rudi, Ee Bikira Israeli, rudi kwenye miji yako."

Also remember Muslims worship only One God, His name is Allah. It is clear from the Quran about this. Allah says in sura Fatiha chapter 1:5: "Thee alone do we worship, and Thine alone aid we seek." Also Sura chapter 40:60: And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer)". Quran Sura Al-Ikhlas - The Purity of Faith: In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. 1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him.

So this is direct! Why do you require someone intermediary! There is no three Gods, there is not two gods, there is no four gods... there is no 100 gods... It is not there in Quran or Hadith. Monotheism is the doctrine of Islam. The claims are baseless.
masukuma
#44 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 3:24:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#45 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 3:58:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?

First, there are so many scientific facts in the Quran which have now been proved by Science. The verses came down more than 1400 years ago to unlearned prophet who didn't have any scientific knowledge... and the verses have now been proved. None of the statements have been disproved.

Secondly, all the souls are in heavens with the creator. They only enter into the foetus at some stage as described by Allah in the verse below: “And verily We did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then We placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump. Then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous Creator” (Quran Sura al-Mu’minun 12-13-14).

The same was explained by the prophet in his statement below as narrated by Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (a.s) that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Each one of you is constituted in the womb of the mother for forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him…” (Sahih al-Bukhari no: 3036)

Thirdly, all babies are innocent until puberty. Remember I wrote here that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So if they are killed before the age of puberty, no question on them.
masukuma
#46 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:04:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?

First, there are so many scientific facts in the Quran which have now been proved by Science. The verses came down more than 1400 years ago to unlearned prophet who didn't have any scientific knowledge... and the verses have now been proved. None of the statements have been disproved.

Secondly, all the souls are in heavens with the creator. They only enter into the foetus at some stage as described by Allah in the verse below: “And verily We did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then We placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump. Then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous Creator” (Quran Sura al-Mu’minun 12-13-14).

The same was explained by the prophet in his statement below as narrated by Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (a.s) that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Each one of you is constituted in the womb of the mother for forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him…” (Sahih al-Bukhari no: 3036)

Thirdly, all babies are innocent until puberty. Remember I wrote here that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So if they are killed before the age of puberty, no question on them.


Let's not argue about the "scientific facts" but let's assume these scientific facts are indeed facts - do they mean that everything else in there is a scientific fact? Let me give you an example!
Quote:
Yesterday, I was watching the Matiba Funeral Service on TV and when I was glued on it - I saw my child jump on top of the sofa and fly around the room


We know that there was a funeral service - FACT... I have a sofa and a TV - FACT... I have a Child - A FACT but that bit about my child flying???

If you contended that my tale was rather a tall one- I would Argue that the story has many facts... TRUE that doesn't make everything in it A FACT!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#47 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:23:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?

First, there are so many scientific facts in the Quran which have now been proved by Science. The verses came down more than 1400 years ago to unlearned prophet who didn't have any scientific knowledge... and the verses have now been proved. None of the statements have been disproved.

Secondly, all the souls are in heavens with the creator. They only enter into the foetus at some stage as described by Allah in the verse below: “And verily We did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then We placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump. Then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous Creator” (Quran Sura al-Mu’minun 12-13-14).

The same was explained by the prophet in his statement below as narrated by Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (a.s) that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Each one of you is constituted in the womb of the mother for forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him…” (Sahih al-Bukhari no: 3036)

Thirdly, all babies are innocent until puberty. Remember I wrote here that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So if they are killed before the age of puberty, no question on them.

Let's not argue about the "scientific facts" but let's assume these scientific facts are indeed facts - do they mean that everything else in there is a scientific fact? Let me give you an example!
Quote:
Yesterday, I was watching the Matiba Funeral Service on TV and when I was glued on it - I saw my child jump on top of the sofa and fly around the room

We know that there was a funeral service - FACT... I have a sofa and a TV - FACT... I have a Child - A FACT but that bit about my child flying???

If you contended that my tale was rather a tall one- I would Argue that the story has many facts... TRUE that doesn't make everything in it A FACT!

We went down this road, you and me before in June 2016... Do you want to go at it again?

The Quran is NOT a science text book. But it mentions many scientific facts. And it mentions these facts long before they were discovered by science. And yet there are many more things written in it which the scientists of today DO NOT understand yet. Some scientific facts have only became understood in the 19th and 20th century. One of them is embryology. And all along, for over 1,400 years embryology was already written in a Book (from long ago) and the scientists now confirmed what the book says in this subject. Many scientists have said that they believe what is written in the BOOK is accurate according to present knowledge. A knowledge which was not available to scientists until recent centuries. And maybe in another 50 or 100 years to come (we won't be here), the Embryologists of that day will confirm more verses.
masukuma
#48 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 6:27:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?

First, there are so many scientific facts in the Quran which have now been proved by Science. The verses came down more than 1400 years ago to unlearned prophet who didn't have any scientific knowledge... and the verses have now been proved. None of the statements have been disproved.

Secondly, all the souls are in heavens with the creator. They only enter into the foetus at some stage as described by Allah in the verse below: “And verily We did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then We placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump. Then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous Creator” (Quran Sura al-Mu’minun 12-13-14).

The same was explained by the prophet in his statement below as narrated by Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (a.s) that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Each one of you is constituted in the womb of the mother for forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him…” (Sahih al-Bukhari no: 3036)

Thirdly, all babies are innocent until puberty. Remember I wrote here that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So if they are killed before the age of puberty, no question on them.

Let's not argue about the "scientific facts" but let's assume these scientific facts are indeed facts - do they mean that everything else in there is a scientific fact? Let me give you an example!
Quote:
Yesterday, I was watching the Matiba Funeral Service on TV and when I was glued on it - I saw my child jump on top of the sofa and fly around the room

We know that there was a funeral service - FACT... I have a sofa and a TV - FACT... I have a Child - A FACT but that bit about my child flying???

If you contended that my tale was rather a tall one- I would Argue that the story has many facts... TRUE that doesn't make everything in it A FACT!

We went down this road, you and me before in June 2016... Do you want to go at it again?

The Quran is NOT a science text book. But it mentions many scientific facts. And it mentions these facts long before they were discovered by science. And yet there are many more things written in it which the scientists of today DO NOT understand yet. Some scientific facts have only became understood in the 19th and 20th century. One of them is embryology. And all along, for over 1,400 years embryology was already written in a Book (from long ago) and the scientists now confirmed what the book says in this subject. Many scientists have said that they believe what is written in the BOOK is accurate according to present knowledge. A knowledge which was not available to scientists until recent centuries. And maybe in another 50 or 100 years to come (we won't be here), the Embryologists of that day will confirm more verses.

Yes... that's why I didn't want to argue about the "scientific facts" in the quran - please note the "". Lets say (for arguments sake) indeed that the said "fact" is indeed a fact. Let's assume more facts are proved in there - ok? Now I ask do all those facts carry the unproven ones? Thus my little story full of facts but with one questionable "recording".
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#49 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 6:27:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
otienosmall wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
There is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK.

When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq".

Quran 23:99-100: Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah, POLYTHEISTS), he says: "My Lord! Send me back, "So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!" No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.


The Roman Catholic Church worships, prays to and gives titles of God to Mary. Islam highly esteems Mary/Maryam and she is mentioned 34 times in the Qu'ran.

3. Issue three: Mary/Maryam

Let me give you some background... amazing background... In the Quran chapter 19 is called surah Maryam. Did you know there is a chapter in the Quran called surah maryam? Who was she? Mother of Muhammad pbuh? No! She was the mother of our beloved Jesus Christ a.s. In honour of her name there is a chapter enshrined in the Quran as surah Maryam. Such an honour is not to be found to Mary mother of Jesus even in your Bible! Did you know that? You have no such book as Mary in your Bible... Pick your Bible, KJV, the Protestant Bible 66 books is starts with Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy ...
then Matthew, Mark, Luke, John... Peter, Paul, James... blah blah. Mary is not one of them
Pick the Roman Catholic Bible, the same thing, Mary is not one of them. BUT! In the Quran, there is a chapter called Maryam.

It says: "Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations" Quran 3:42

This honour give to Mary (a.s) the mother of Jesus honour is not to be found even in the Christian Bible, whether it is the Protestant version or the Roman catholic version. You can check them both, you cannot find anything like it.

The chapter continues: "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down.
This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration..."
Quran 3:42 This is the news given to Mary the mother of Jesus Christ a.s about the birth of the holy son She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" Quran 3:47. In the Biblical language, to know means, sex, i.e. sexually. In the Quran it says "no man has touched me". The reply to this is Allah said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!" Quran 3:47

The story in the Quran calls Mary "the daughter of Imran". Her mother, mentioned in the Quran only as the wife of Imran, was barren for a long time, she prayed to God for a child. She said if you give me a child, she vowed to dedicate him to service in the Temple. However, she bore a daughter instead, and named her Mary. So she took her to temple and one of the priests in the temple, Zakariya became the guardian of Mary a.s. I understand why Christians would be offended... Can you think for a moment if this were from Muhammad pbuh, it is amazing how Quran does not mention his own mother, not his wife, not his daughter... Not the name of mother of Muhammad is mentioned... amazing! Even his father's name is not mentioned! Who was his father, where was he born, where did he die... nothing like that. Jesus Christ a.s is mentioned in the Quran several places... Muhammad's birth is not mentioned at all! Muhammad pbuh is mentioned only 5 times, Jesus Christ a.s mentioned 25 times... Moses a.s mentioned 136 times... It is amazing!

So Mary (a.s) being mentioned frequently in the Quran, that does not make her a goddess... just like Moses mentioned the most in the Quran does not make him a God. So I don't know what is your point in your post...

Besides, the Quran instructs Mary a.s. to worship only allah, her creator!

AlphDoti
#50 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 6:31:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
seems like reverse engineering to me but I can't prove it - since we cannot remember where we were - we come up with some theory to explain it.
Since we don't know what happens next - your guess is as good as mine - we cook up something we cannot prove. it's not proof - it's just written.
secondly, if all souls were created at the beginning - what happens to the unspent souls? I guess that you say the soul moves into the body at time X - what happens when you kill that body with the souls pending? what if you kill a guy with "descendants in his loins"? what happens to these "souls"? what will they testify?

First, there are so many scientific facts in the Quran which have now been proved by Science. The verses came down more than 1400 years ago to unlearned prophet who didn't have any scientific knowledge... and the verses have now been proved. None of the statements have been disproved.

Secondly, all the souls are in heavens with the creator. They only enter into the foetus at some stage as described by Allah in the verse below: “And verily We did create man from a quintessence (of clay). Then We placed him (as a drop of sperm) in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump. Then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature (by breathing life into it). So blessed be Allah, the most marvellous Creator” (Quran Sura al-Mu’minun 12-13-14).

The same was explained by the prophet in his statement below as narrated by Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (a.s) that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Each one of you is constituted in the womb of the mother for forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him…” (Sahih al-Bukhari no: 3036)

Thirdly, all babies are innocent until puberty. Remember I wrote here that every child is born in a state Fitra. That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature. It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist or Atheist. Naturally, a child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing. So if they are killed before the age of puberty, no question on them.

Let's not argue about the "scientific facts" but let's assume these scientific facts are indeed facts - do they mean that everything else in there is a scientific fact? Let me give you an example!
Quote:
Yesterday, I was watching the Matiba Funeral Service on TV and when I was glued on it - I saw my child jump on top of the sofa and fly around the room

We know that there was a funeral service - FACT... I have a sofa and a TV - FACT... I have a Child - A FACT but that bit about my child flying???

If you contended that my tale was rather a tall one- I would Argue that the story has many facts... TRUE that doesn't make everything in it A FACT!

We went down this road, you and me before in June 2016... Do you want to go at it again?

The Quran is NOT a science text book. But it mentions many scientific facts. And it mentions these facts long before they were discovered by science. And yet there are many more things written in it which the scientists of today DO NOT understand yet. Some scientific facts have only became understood in the 19th and 20th century. One of them is embryology. And all along, for over 1,400 years embryology was already written in a Book (from long ago) and the scientists now confirmed what the book says in this subject. Many scientists have said that they believe what is written in the BOOK is accurate according to present knowledge. A knowledge which was not available to scientists until recent centuries. And maybe in another 50 or 100 years to come (we won't be here), the Embryologists of that day will confirm more verses.

Yes... that's why I didn't want to argue about the "scientific facts" in the quran - please note the "". Lets say (for arguments sake) indeed that the said "fact" is indeed a fact. Let's assume more facts are proved in there - ok? Now I ask do all those facts carry the unproven ones? Thus my little story full of facts but with one questionable "recording".

Your question not clear... please.
masukuma
#51 Posted : Thursday, April 26, 2018 8:05:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
My question is do MANY FACTS "carry" questionable stories? are FACTS democratic? When you have 99% FACTS do they mean that the 1% questionable occurrences get validated by the 99% FACTS?
And that is why I asked what your take on this little tale is
Quote:
Yesterday, I was watching the Matiba Funeral Service on TV and when I was glued on it - I saw my child jump on top of the sofa and fly around the room
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
harrydre
#52 Posted : Friday, April 27, 2018 2:49:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
AlphDoti wrote:

Question 3: <harrydre> Do they connect with those who left before them?

Yes, the souls of the believers meet and visit one another. Look at this hadith narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari and Abu Haatim in al-Saheeh, they reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “When his soul is taken up it is met by the souls who ask him about the living and they say to one another: ‘Let him rest.’ And they say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ And he says: ‘He did a righteous deed.’ They say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ and he says: ‘Has he not come to you?’ They say: ‘No.’ They say: ‘He was taken to the Pit (of Hell).’”

Therefore, the dead visit one another. But there are two types: those that are punished and those that are blessed. Those that are punished are too preoccupied with the torment that they are facing to visit and meet one another, but the souls that are blessed are free and are not detained, so they meet one another, visit one another and talk about what they used to do in this world and what happened to the people of this world.

Question 4: <harrydre> Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

The answer is no! Remember I stated that there is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK. When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq". The dead cannot make contact with the dead. Neither do the alive make contact with the dead. There is a barrier between them called barzaq


So in your view judgement day is already happening to some of those who died a long time ago going by your 1st & 2nd paragraph?
i.am.back!!!!
AlphDoti
#53 Posted : Friday, April 27, 2018 11:54:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Question 3: <harrydre> Do they connect with those who left before them?

Yes, the souls of the believers meet and visit one another. Look at this hadith narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari and Abu Haatim in al-Saheeh, they reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “When his soul is taken up it is met by the souls who ask him about the living and they say to one another: ‘Let him rest.’ And they say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ And he says: ‘He did a righteous deed.’ They say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ and he says: ‘Has he not come to you?’ They say: ‘No.’ They say: ‘He was taken to the Pit (of Hell).’”

Therefore, the dead visit one another. But there are two types: those that are punished and those that are blessed. Those that are punished are too preoccupied with the torment that they are facing to visit and meet one another, but the souls that are blessed are free and are not detained, so they meet one another, visit one another and talk about what they used to do in this world and what happened to the people of this world.

Question 4: <harrydre> Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

The answer is no! Remember I stated that there is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK. When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq". The dead cannot make contact with the dead. Neither do the alive make contact with the dead. There is a barrier between them called barzaq

So in your view judgement day is already happening to some of those who died a long time ago going by your 1st & 2nd paragraph?

First, is clarification. Judgement Day will happen after the Resurrection. Everybody is waiting for it. That Day is called the Day of Reckoning.

Secondly, if judgement you mean reckoning, then yes reckoning starts immediately after death. And that reward and punishment will come after the reckoning. Allah says: “So, by your Lord, (O Muhammad pbuh), We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do” [Quran al-Hijr 15:92-93]. “Then surely, We shall question those (people) to whom it (the Book) was sent and verily, We shall question the Messengers” [Quran al-A’raaf 7:6]

Thirdly, this reckoning will be in two stages: (1). The first stage is in the grave, after death. (2). The second stage of the reckoning will be after the Resurrection.

I hope i answered your question
harrydre
#54 Posted : Friday, April 27, 2018 3:15:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
AlphDoti wrote:
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Question 3: <harrydre> Do they connect with those who left before them?

Yes, the souls of the believers meet and visit one another. Look at this hadith narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari and Abu Haatim in al-Saheeh, they reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “When his soul is taken up it is met by the souls who ask him about the living and they say to one another: ‘Let him rest.’ And they say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ And he says: ‘He did a righteous deed.’ They say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ and he says: ‘Has he not come to you?’ They say: ‘No.’ They say: ‘He was taken to the Pit (of Hell).’”

Therefore, the dead visit one another. But there are two types: those that are punished and those that are blessed. Those that are punished are too preoccupied with the torment that they are facing to visit and meet one another, but the souls that are blessed are free and are not detained, so they meet one another, visit one another and talk about what they used to do in this world and what happened to the people of this world.

Question 4: <harrydre> Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

The answer is no! Remember I stated that there is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK. When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq". The dead cannot make contact with the dead. Neither do the alive make contact with the dead. There is a barrier between them called barzaq

So in your view judgement day is already happening to some of those who died a long time ago going by your 1st & 2nd paragraph?

First, is clarification. Judgement Day will happen after the Resurrection. Everybody is waiting for it. That Day is called the Day of Reckoning.

Secondly, if judgement you mean reckoning, then yes reckoning starts immediately after death. And that reward and punishment will come after the reckoning. Allah says: “So, by your Lord, (O Muhammad pbuh), We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do” [Quran al-Hijr 15:92-93]. “Then surely, We shall question those (people) to whom it (the Book) was sent and verily, We shall question the Messengers” [Quran al-A’raaf 7:6]

Thirdly, this reckoning will be in two stages: (1). The first stage is in the grave, after death. (2). The second stage of the reckoning will be after the Resurrection.

I hope i answered your question


That in red looks like judgement
i.am.back!!!!
AlphDoti
#55 Posted : Friday, April 27, 2018 8:09:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
harrydre wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Question 3: <harrydre> Do they connect with those who left before them?

Yes, the souls of the believers meet and visit one another. Look at this hadith narrated from Abu Ayyoob al-Ansaari and Abu Haatim in al-Saheeh, they reported that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “When his soul is taken up it is met by the souls who ask him about the living and they say to one another: ‘Let him rest.’ And they say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ And he says: ‘He did a righteous deed.’ They say: ‘What happened to So and so?’ and he says: ‘Has he not come to you?’ They say: ‘No.’ They say: ‘He was taken to the Pit (of Hell).’”

Therefore, the dead visit one another. But there are two types: those that are punished and those that are blessed. Those that are punished are too preoccupied with the torment that they are facing to visit and meet one another, but the souls that are blessed are free and are not detained, so they meet one another, visit one another and talk about what they used to do in this world and what happened to the people of this world.

Question 4: <harrydre> Are they 'watching over' those they left behind?

The answer is no! Remember I stated that there is something, a barrier called BARZAQ/BARZAK. When a person dies, there's no turning back to this world (this life) again. There's another stage in between live and judgement day called "barzaq". The dead cannot make contact with the dead. Neither do the alive make contact with the dead. There is a barrier between them called barzaq

So in your view judgement day is already happening to some of those who died a long time ago going by your 1st & 2nd paragraph?

First, is clarification. Judgement Day will happen after the Resurrection. Everybody is waiting for it. That Day is called the Day of Reckoning.

Secondly, if judgement you mean reckoning, then yes reckoning starts immediately after death. And that reward and punishment will come after the reckoning. Allah says: “So, by your Lord, (O Muhammad pbuh), We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do” [Quran al-Hijr 15:92-93]. “Then surely, We shall question those (people) to whom it (the Book) was sent and verily, We shall question the Messengers” [Quran al-A’raaf 7:6]

Thirdly, this reckoning will be in two stages: (1). The first stage is in the grave, after death. (2). The second stage of the reckoning will be after the Resurrection.

I hope i answered your question

That in red looks like judgement

From that hadith, it is understood that death is the minor judgement for the dead... and the resurrection is major judgement.

It was narrated from Aisha (r.a) that the Prophet (pbuh) said: “It has been revealed to me that you will be put to trial in the grave.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (1049) and Muslim (584).

Quote:
Two things after this reckoning: be reward or punishment. So the one who has succeeded will have blessing and happiness in his grave and the one who has lost will have torment and misery.
harrydre
#56 Posted : Monday, May 07, 2018 8:17:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
tycho
#57 Posted : Tuesday, May 08, 2018 9:06:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi


What makes you to think that death and aging are bad things?

Everyday I realize that we subscribe to a decadent anthropology courtesy of wazungus.

Wakanyugi
#58 Posted : Tuesday, May 08, 2018 12:54:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


What makes you to think that death and aging are bad things?

Everyday I realize that we subscribe to a decadent anthropology courtesy of wazungus.



Tycho: Aging is bad chiefly because of the pain and degradation to the body that comes with it. If technology can eliminate this, then it would be a rather enjoyable process, I think.

Then I would even look forward to planning my own death. Perhaps even holding some 'going home' parties for friends and family before checking into a high cost dying home for some final pampering.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#59 Posted : Wednesday, May 09, 2018 12:17:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:


What makes you to think that death and aging are bad things?

Everyday I realize that we subscribe to a decadent anthropology courtesy of wazungus.



Tycho: Aging is bad chiefly because of the pain and degradation to the body that comes with it. If technology can eliminate this, then it would be a rather enjoyable process, I think.

Then I would even look forward to planning my own death. Perhaps even holding some 'going home' parties for friends and family before checking into a high cost dying home for some final pampering.


And aging is good because of the birth and pleasures of life it facilitates.

If it's just a matter of pain, then much of human life at whatever stage has some pain.

The other day I learnt that I can die with every breath. That is, to live well is to die well.

So I hope my practice of death will become an everyday joy.

The body is the flower. Flowers are meant to wither. Yet before they wither, their sight and scent confounds.
muandiwambeu
#60 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2018 11:27:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
tycho wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:


What makes you to think that death and aging are bad things?

Everyday I realize that we subscribe to a decadent anthropology courtesy of wazungus.



Tycho: Aging is bad chiefly because of the pain and degradation to the body that comes with it. If technology can eliminate this, then it would be a rather enjoyable process, I think.

Then I would even look forward to planning my own death. Perhaps even holding some 'going home' parties for friends and family before checking into a high cost dying home for some final pampering.


And aging is good because of the birth and pleasures of life it facilitates.

If it's just a matter of pain, then much of human life at whatever stage has some pain.

The other day I learnt that I can die with every breath. That is, to live well is to die well.

So I hope my practice of death will become an everyday joy.

The body is the flower. Flowers are meant to wither. Yet before they wither, their sight and scent confounds.

Suppose death is an error that could be rectified and eternal life is feasible. When would u transit to the next world to get a share of ur caning.
Suppose u can Teleport your spirit into a quark particle, and live into infinity without biological form, would u still expect to die and get caned? Suppose, I as a spirit need nothing and can jetson my biological suit, since I support the thought of living infinitely whether in hell or heaven, why can't I live free without both and forever kwa raha zangu.
The thought of heaven hell are all as cumbersome as evi-l-ive.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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