wazua Tue, Oct 23, 2018
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

7 Pages«<23456>»
Mjengo ianze! Penny-Stocker and other gurus, help!
Surething
#61 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:33:53 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/12/2016
Posts: 39
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
Depends on the size of your project,if small,find an architect and structural engineer who is willing to be paid per visit rather than a full time architect and structural engineer.


True, having those guys on the ground throughout for a small straight forward project is economic suicide..

However the key thing is to have your own man on the ground who is able to properly interpret the designs & see to it that the instructions of the engineers are implemented. I am currently doing a two storey development all the way in western & it is impractical for my engineers based in Nairobi to visit regularly, so what I did is get an experienced guy (clerk of works) with a diploma in civil engineering to give instructions to the foreman at the beginning of each stage, supervise the implementation as it is going on and inspect the final product which means visiting site at most thrice a week depending on activities. On the rare occasions he gets stuck he consults the engineers.
MugundaMan
#62 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:17:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Experience so far on my project;

1. The moment the neighbourhood heard someone is breaking ground "soon" all manner of hangers on, milkers and con men in the area came looking for a juicy kill. Heard it all...everything from "pay me to plant and water your Kei Apple/Kayaba seedlings daily" to "pay me to chunga your gate lest thugs (most likely the same people offering the protection service) come at night and rip it off while you are asleep in Nairobi!" Then there are the water vendors. Every couple of hours they come by asking if you need water for anything, and their prices for the same are also inflated. And since our stima is not connected, stima extortionists next door who want as much as 3k for a few days of using theirs for welding works. Biggest lesson I have learned is to say no to all these vultures. Nothing bad has happened to me 'so far' from being firm about this.

2. You learn so much about an area simply by being on site daily. Jiranis come by when they see you working on your project, and if you are friendly enough, they will give you info you never would have imagined about the history of the plot and area. And if they have already built, insights on what to do and not to do. It also pays to be humble and establish rapport with them, no matter what their station is in life from the highest to the lowest. If they view you as an urban snob, that's how your gates and fixtures potea in a flash.

3. I reiterate that house construction is not rocket science my friends. Being on site with the foreman and fundis for three hours can teach you more than those complex sounding architects notes can in a decade on a small project (maisonette or bungalow). There is a certain calm joy and satisfaction in watching your dream home go up block by block. Especially if the design is coming up exactly as you had wanted it.

4. Also got a great tip about planting your fruit trees early and "mini-fencing" them to make it absolutely clear to the fundis not to interefere with them. That way by the time the house is done, the matundas might already start dropping from the trees like the garden of Eden.

5. It pays to be hands on kabisa and to buy ONLY the materials requisite for that day alone. My policy is nothing extra remains on site; to ward off temptation for thugs, thieves and even the fundis themselves. Doing things this way also helps you accurately track what is going into the house.

6. On tracking; I track every penny on a spreadsheet which is extremely helpful. I am already seeing huge variances in terms of what the BOQ is saying and what I am paying. Ati 3k for clearing bushes? With a slasher and a full afternoon, one can easily get that done by themselves. Plus its a free workout that keeps you trim and fit. I am saving a boatload on such things which should see my overall costs drop significantly once done

7. Don't tangaza all plans, even to the fundis, for example telling them you have all the money intact for the entire project. Otherwise they will assume you have 10m neatly sitting in the bank and will want to take a whack at it shilling by shilling. Even if you have the money, let them know you only have enough for one stage (eg foundation) and the rest you will have to "save/tafuta later." This I have found gives you good leverage in negotiating down prices as the fundis are always looking for work. Down days are not good days for them, so it is in their interest that your project goes on even if it means they lower their fees for you to keep the project moving.

Otherwise everything has been smooth so far. Will update in about 3 months time about how far the project has reached and what challenges I will have encountered by then.
"The best investment on earth is earth"
FRM2011
#63 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:53:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,151

For those who have projects running at the moment, I have a guy who can "better" your best offer on machine-cut stones, ballast and cement. Savings of over 20% on these materials.
Chaka
#64 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:16:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 1,994
Where is he based?send me his contacts,chakacrafts at gmail dot com

FRM2011 wrote:

For those who have projects running at the moment, I have a guy who can "better" your best offer on machine-cut stones, ballast and cement. Savings of over 20% on these materials.

Mukiri
#65 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:55:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,178
MugundaMan wrote:
Experience so far on my project;

1. The moment the neighbourhood heard someone is breaking ground "soon" all manner of hangers on, milkers and con men in the area came looking for a juicy kill. Heard it all...everything from "pay me to plant and water your Kei Apple/Kayaba seedlings daily" to "pay me to chunga your gate lest thugs (most likely the same people offering the protection service) come at night and rip it off while you are asleep in Nairobi!" Then there are the water vendors. Every couple of hours they come by asking if you need water for anything, and their prices for the same are also inflated. And since our stima is not connected, stima extortionists next door who want as much as 3k for a few days of using theirs for welding works. Biggest lesson I have learned is to say no to all these vultures. Nothing bad has happened to me 'so far' from being firm about this.

2. You learn so much about an area simply by being on site daily. Jiranis come by when they see you working on your project, and if you are friendly enough, they will give you info you never would have imagined about the history of the plot and area. And if they have already built, insights on what to do and not to do. It also pays to be humble and establish rapport with them, no matter what their station is in life from the highest to the lowest. If they view you as an urban snob, that's how your gates and fixtures potea in a flash.

3. I reiterate that house construction is not rocket science my friends. Being on site with the foreman and fundis for three hours can teach you more than those complex sounding architects notes can in a decade on a small project (maisonette or bungalow). There is a certain calm joy and satisfaction in watching your dream home go up block by block. Especially if the design is coming up exactly as you had wanted it.

4. Also got a great tip about planting your fruit trees early and "mini-fencing" them to make it absolutely clear to the fundis not to interefere with them. That way by the time the house is done, the matundas might already start dropping from the trees like the garden of Eden.

5. It pays to be hands on kabisa and to buy ONLY the materials requisite for that day alone. My policy is nothing extra remains on site; to ward off temptation for thugs, thieves and even the fundis themselves. Doing things this way also helps you accurately track what is going into the house.

6. On tracking; I track every penny on a spreadsheet which is extremely helpful. I am already seeing huge variances in terms of what the BOQ is saying and what I am paying. Ati 3k for clearing bushes? With a slasher and a full afternoon, one can easily get that done by themselves. Plus its a free workout that keeps you trim and fit. I am saving a boatload on such things which should see my overall costs drop significantly once done

7. Don't tangaza all plans, even to the fundis, for example telling them you have all the money intact for the entire project. Otherwise they will assume you have 10m neatly sitting in the bank and will want to take a whack at it shilling by shilling. Even if you have the money, let them know you only have enough for one stage (eg foundation) and the rest you will have to "save/tafuta later." This I have found gives you good leverage in negotiating down prices as the fundis are always looking for work. Down days are not good days for them, so it is in their interest that your project goes on even if it means they lower their fees for you to keep the project moving.

Otherwise everything has been smooth so far. Will update in about 3 months time about how far the project has reached and what challenges I will have encountered by then.

mugundaman kumbe you can (try to)be useful at times Laughing out loudly
You sound like a very mean human being, your posts here are rife with oh help me this, nisaidie tafadhali na ... and then share how to say no to neighbors when they offer to vend the 20 bob water mtungis, notwithstanding how to dismiss professionals.

Proverbs 19:21
MugundaMan
#66 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 1:22:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Mukiri wrote:
mugundaman kumbe you can (try to)be useful at times Laughing out loudly
You sound like a very mean human being, your posts here are rife with oh help me this, nisaidie tafadhali na ... and then share how to say no to neighbors when they offer to vend the 20 bob water mtungis, notwithstanding how to dismiss professionals.


Laughing out loudly. Somewhat accurate. 20 bob a mtungi may sound low to you, but remember that during construction, low sounding per unit costs add up very fast when you are buying hundreds and hundreds of the same. A nail for example costs next to zero until you have to buy two sacks of it.
"The best investment on earth is earth"
edwinmukiri
#67 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 12:36:59 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 8/11/2014
Posts: 72
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
So after many years of toil and sweat, I've finally been blessed to scrape together a few decent plotis (a relatively prime 1/4 and a few 1/8ths in and around Nairoberry) with clean title in my name on which to start my mjengos. I could have started years back on the first plot but I figured that given the skyrocketing prices of properties in and around the big city, that would be putting the horse before the cart. Architect has designed the first mjengo for the 1/4 and we are about to ground break soon. He also wants to manage the project (to get his juicy contractor profit at my expense of course) but he doesn't know mjanja me will be getting my own foreman, sourcing my own materials, building in stages and joining in to soil my boots with koroga to save costs (thanks Penny-Stocker for those brilliant tips!). He has gone to great lengths to convince me that I need him to supervise at every stage, sourcing materials included (he's a good dreamer) but of course that will not be happening. My simple question is; at what stages (after approvals) do I really need this guy, assuming I have a good foreman? Can I cut him out completely after the approvals come in? Warm regards and thanks in advance.



Who is your Architect and how much did he charge you for the architectal drawing?
Bulls make money,bears make money and pigs get slaughtered.
starx
#68 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 1:20:21 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/1/2017
Posts: 7
Location: na
FRM2011 wrote:

For those who have projects running at the moment, I have a guy who can "better" your best offer on machine-cut stones, ballast and cement. Savings of over 20% on these materials.


tafadhali here josephonyangoxx@gmail.com
MugundaMan
#69 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:59:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
edwinmukiri wrote:

Who is your Architect and how much did he charge you for the architectal drawing?


He charged me an arm and a leg but that part was worth it because the finished design met and exceeded my expectations.
"The best investment on earth is earth"
Mukiri
#70 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:42:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,178
@Garana.. Hapa huwes saidika. That one takes but never gives. You are better off milking a stone

Proverbs 19:21
MugundaMan
#71 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:12:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Mukiri wrote:
@Garana.. Hapa huwes saidika. That one takes but never gives. You are better off milking a stone


I've told you this before. Your problem is that you are very petty. Seems like Ad hominem is your opium hapa Wazoo. Nothing else. Even if I decide to "give" zero, who said that is illegal hapa? Today you are issuing fatwas ordering all Wazooans to "give" BY FORCE, lest they be frogmarched to the Mukiri Cyber-concentration camps for severe flogging. Very funny!
"The best investment on earth is earth"
Mukiri
#72 Posted : Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:29:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,178
MugundaMan wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
@Garana.. Hapa huwes saidika. That one takes but never gives. You are better off milking a stone


I've told you this before. Your problem is that you are very petty. Seems like Ad hominem is your opium hapa Wazoo. Nothing else. Even if I decide to "give" zero, who said that is illegal hapa? Today you are issuing fatwas ordering all Wazooans to "give" BY FORCE, lest they be frogmarched to the Mukiri Cyber-concentration camps for severe flogging. Very funny!

Answer the questions as asked, side shows you keep for your own personal entertainment..

Whom is your Architect? What did he charge? The two intertwined so that one can know what to expect when approaching an architect of such caliber.

You are so full of yourself, when asked a question, its not about you... sometimes someone wants the information for their own consumption. It might be very important to them.


Proverbs 19:21
Swenani
#73 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 10:19:57 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 12,618
Location: Vacuum
MugundaMan wrote:
Experience so far on my project;

1. The moment the neighbourhood heard someone is breaking ground "soon" all manner of hangers on, milkers and con men in the area came looking for a juicy kill. Heard it all...everything from "pay me to plant and water your Kei Apple/Kayaba seedlings daily" to "pay me to chunga your gate lest thugs (most likely the same people offering the protection service) come at night and rip it off while you are asleep in Nairobi!" Then there are the water vendors. Every couple of hours they come by asking if you need water for anything, and their prices for the same are also inflated. And since our stima is not connected, stima extortionists next door who want as much as 3k for a few days of using theirs for welding works. Biggest lesson I have learned is to say no to all these vultures. Nothing bad has happened to me 'so far' from being firm about this.

2. You learn so much about an area simply by being on site daily. Jiranis come by when they see you working on your project, and if you are friendly enough, they will give you info you never would have imagined about the history of the plot and area. And if they have already built, insights on what to do and not to do. It also pays to be humble and establish rapport with them, no matter what their station is in life from the highest to the lowest. If they view you as an urban snob, that's how your gates and fixtures potea in a flash.

3. I reiterate that house construction is not rocket science my friends. Being on site with the foreman and fundis for three hours can teach you more than those complex sounding architects notes can in a decade on a small project (maisonette or bungalow). There is a certain calm joy and satisfaction in watching your dream home go up block by block. Especially if the design is coming up exactly as you had wanted it.

4. Also got a great tip about planting your fruit trees early and "mini-fencing" them to make it absolutely clear to the fundis not to interefere with them. That way by the time the house is done, the matundas might already start dropping from the trees like the garden of Eden.

5. It pays to be hands on kabisa and to buy ONLY the materials requisite for that day alone. My policy is nothing extra remains on site; to ward off temptation for thugs, thieves and even the fundis themselves. Doing things this way also helps you accurately track what is going into the house.

6. On tracking; I track every penny on a spreadsheet which is extremely helpful. I am already seeing huge variances in terms of what the BOQ is saying and what I am paying. Ati 3k for clearing bushes? With a slasher and a full afternoon, one can easily get that done by themselves. Plus its a free workout that keeps you trim and fit. I am saving a boatload on such things which should see my overall costs drop significantly once done

7. Don't tangaza all plans, even to the fundis, for example telling them you have all the money intact for the entire project. Otherwise they will assume you have 10m neatly sitting in the bank and will want to take a whack at it shilling by shilling. Even if you have the money, let them know you only have enough for one stage (eg foundation) and the rest you will have to "save/tafuta later." This I have found gives you good leverage in negotiating down prices as the fundis are always looking for work. Down days are not good days for them, so it is in their interest that your project goes on even if it means they lower their fees for you to keep the project moving.

Otherwise everything has been smooth so far. Will update in about 3 months time about how far the project has reached and what challenges I will have encountered by then.


8. Have all the approvals in place
9.Go for contract labour and source materials for yourself.
10. So many people depend on your mjengo thus don't hesitate to stop works indefinitely if the work/materials/price are not satisfactory....a better solution/advice/aternative always comes up once they start feeling the pain in their pockets
11. If managing the project remotely, have differently levels of oversight. Foreman, site guard, neighbors, family& friends who pop at the site once etc to check/snitch on each other.
12. Don't be afraid to challenge/question the professionals-not dismissing them
Poverty is the root of all evil
Ryko
#74 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 1:34:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/27/2016
Posts: 192
Location: Nairobi
Very handy tips over here. Appreciated
I work so I can afford the amount of alcohol required to continue going to work
MugundaMan
#75 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:59:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Swenani wrote:

8. Have all the approvals in place
9.Go for contract labour and source materials for yourself.
10. So many people depend on your mjengo thus don't hesitate to stop works indefinitely if the work/materials/price are not satisfactory....a better solution/advice/aternative always comes up once they start feeling the pain in their pockets
11. If managing the project remotely, have differently levels of oversight. Foreman, site guard, neighbors, family& friends who pop at the site once etc to check/snitch on each other.
12. Don't be afraid to challenge/question the professionals-not dismissing them


Great tips, Swenani. BTW does the Foreman have to be NCA registered? I'm doing a labour contract and the architect suggested so but those are extra Kshs slipping out of my jeans since the one I have is quite competent already but not sure he is registered or not.
"The best investment on earth is earth"
Swenani
#76 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 4:40:39 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 12,618
Location: Vacuum
MugundaMan wrote:
Swenani wrote:

8. Have all the approvals in place
9.Go for contract labour and source materials for yourself.
10. So many people depend on your mjengo thus don't hesitate to stop works indefinitely if the work/materials/price are not satisfactory....a better solution/advice/aternative always comes up once they start feeling the pain in their pockets
11. If managing the project remotely, have differently levels of oversight. Foreman, site guard, neighbors, family& friends who pop at the site once etc to check/snitch on each other.
12. Don't be afraid to challenge/question the professionals-not dismissing them


Great tips, Swenani. BTW does the Foreman have to be NCA registered? I'm doing a labour contract and the architect suggested so but those are extra Kshs slipping out of my jeans since the one I have is quite competent already but not sure he is registered or not.


Registration with NCA is a straightforward thing.

Registration as a site supervisor costs less than 5K while registration as a contractor costs between 10K-50K depending with class registration. If the contractor has no technical qualification,a recommendation letter from a registered contractor will suffice.
You can facilitate them to register and deduct the registration fees and expenses from their labour contractor.

If they visit your site and find the contractor is not registered, expect a big NCA X on your structure
Poverty is the root of all evil
MugundaMan
#77 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2018 4:54:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Swenani wrote:


Registration with NCA is a straightforward thing.

Registration as a site supervisor costs less than 5K while registration as a contractor costs between 10K-50K depending with class registration. If the contractor has no technical qualification,a recommendation letter from a registered contractor will suffice.
You can facilitate them to register and deduct the registration fees and expenses from their labour contractor.

If they visit your site and find the contractor is not registered, expect a big NCA X on your structure


You are a lifesaver. Asante!
"The best investment on earth is earth"
mikanjoroge
#78 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 12:36:26 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/13/2016
Posts: 44
Location: kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
Swenani wrote:


Registration with NCA is a straightforward thing.

Registration as a site supervisor costs less than 5K while registration as a contractor costs between 10K-50K depending with class registration. If the contractor has no technical qualification,a recommendation letter from a registered contractor will suffice.
You can facilitate them to register and deduct the registration fees and expenses from their labour contractor.

If they visit your site and find the contractor is not registered, expect a big NCA X on your structure


You are a lifesaver. Asante!


I have a mjengo in thika.
I had gotten all approvals including county, nca and nema.
Then NCA guys came. I was not around. They put a RED X on my building and left a notice with the following check marks.
...the works are hereby suspeneded blah blah blah for the following reasons:


1.)- Lack of NCA registered contractor on site
2.) - lack of sign board showing all approvals and the professionals engaged in project
3.) -Lack of safety signs on site.
4,)- Lack of personal protective equipment on site
5.)-Lack of sufficient hoarding and fencing
6.) lack of NCA compliance certificate
7.) Lack of NCA accredited skilled works and site supervisors.



Apparently if you fail even one, they can "suspend works" and then they say you call them. I called them, then they said I should go see them with all approvals. I took them the approvals, which I suspect they thought I didn't have. So they said they will look at them and said they will come back. Seemed easy going. My project continues. I also bought each fundi a hard hat, safety vest, & put a fence. In the process of putting a sign. I have a registered structural engineer and architect, but they are only there during major stages and inspection (before and after a stage). The head foreman is not registered, but has over 20 years experience and his work is checked by structural engineer. Foreman has projects all over Kiambu and is highly recommended.


A few days later a new set of guys specifically from Kiambu county came, but we were ready, showed them county approvals. That is all they cared about. Didn't even ask about red x. They called their office to verify their approvals are not fake. All went ok.

Now I expect NEMA guys to show up anytime.

Maybe when I finish KRA will come who knows. It is like there is a line.

MugundaMan
#79 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 2:52:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 726
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
mikanjoroge wrote:


I have a mjengo in thika.
I had gotten all approvals including county, nca and nema.
Then NCA guys came. I was not around. They put a RED X on my building and left a notice with the following check marks.
...the works are hereby suspeneded blah blah blah for the following reasons:


1.)- Lack of NCA registered contractor on site
2.) - lack of sign board showing all approvals and the professionals engaged in project
3.) -Lack of safety signs on site.
4,)- Lack of personal protective equipment on site
5.)-Lack of sufficient hoarding and fencing
6.) lack of NCA compliance certificate
7.) Lack of NCA accredited skilled works and site supervisors.



Apparently if you fail even one, they can "suspend works" and then they say you call them. I called them, then they said I should go see them with all approvals. I took them the approvals, which I suspect they thought I didn't have. So they said they will look at them and said they will come back. Seemed easy going. My project continues. I also bought each fundi a hard hat, safety vest, & put a fence. In the process of putting a sign. I have a registered structural engineer and architect, but they are only there during major stages and inspection (before and after a stage). The head foreman is not registered, but has over 20 years experience and his work is checked by structural engineer. Foreman has projects all over Kiambu and is highly recommended.


A few days later a new set of guys specifically from Kiambu county came, but we were ready, showed them county approvals. That is all they cared about. Didn't even ask about red x. They called their office to verify their approvals are not fake. All went ok.

Now I expect NEMA guys to show up anytime.

Maybe when I finish KRA will come who knows. It is like there is a line.



On the foreman; so by law, given the SE and Architect are technically "supervising/directing" his works through occasional site visits, he doesn't necessarily have to be registered, right? This is what I was unsure of. I'm thinking of course for more peace of mind it might be a good idea to register mine in the manner Swenani has prescribed if the foreman is not registered yet (will find out at the site later today.)

On the agencies making a bee line to your project. Pole bro. Sounds like you might have a neighbour, who might not be very happy with your progress, who is a snitch. Those are too many coincidences to be an accident IMHO. Or your project is in a very visible/high traffic area in the "flight path" of some of those officials. I am lucky mine is tucked in deep in the semi-bundus/outskirts of Nairobi and some distance from the main highways. But I'm still not taking any chances lest all those agencies come for me as well.
"The best investment on earth is earth"
mikanjoroge
#80 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:19:28 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/13/2016
Posts: 44
Location: kenya
I am not sure why he is not registered. But NCA guys expect people on site to be registered. Foreman is known all over neighborhood.Usually has more than one project at a time. Or maybe he doesn't care. SE came during measurement of foundation, foundation stage (digging), laying of initial wires and big "ndorango" (sic) stones. He has a ledger where he records his observations and instructions to fundi and signs off. SE has given good tips. SE is pleased with the foreman. They don't know each other, unless they are putting on an elaborate show. (then they deserve oscar awards). I didn't know you could register fundi yourself. I thought onus is on fundi to seek registration. Maybe it is easier. I would say project is semi-visible a little hidden but still on a road that can be seen. Yes, the main supervisor is structural engineer. People in that area love gossip. So who knows how they knew. Plus some govt employees may be looking for "tea" or "petrol" so this possibly gives them hawk-eye-incentives to find up-coming buildings that may be missing paperwork.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
7 Pages«<23456>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2018 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.