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SA: Seizing land from white farmers
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:The native americans in the US should also have their land back. And they should kick out the "colonizing whites and their black slaves" off their land. It's never a question of 'should they'... it's a question of 'can they'? it's the same in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina and most of latin america... CAN YOU? What numbers do you have? True dat, Now Black South Africans are in Power. They CAN change the situation. Its about righting historical injustice. Its not about having mercy and pity on people who are riding on the poverty inflicted on you by their great grandfather. How they go about it is the archilles hill. Outright land invasions is very unwise. A systematic and compulsory acquisition of assets by govt without compensation and leaving the white owners as mere managers on a salary would probably be a better way to go about it. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:The native americans in the US should also have their land back. And they should kick out the "colonizing whites and their black slaves" off their land. It's never a question of 'should they'... it's a question of 'can they'? it's the same in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina and most of latin america... CAN YOU? What numbers do you have? True dat, Now Black South Africans are in Power. They CAN change the situation. Its about righting historical injustice. Its not about having mercy and pity on people who are riding on the poverty inflicted on you by their great grandfather. How they go about it is the archilles hill. Outright land invasions is very unwise. A systematic and compulsory acquisition of assets by govt without compensation and leaving the white owners as mere managers on a salary would probably be a better way to go about it. What you are saying in other words is that the Victor not only has his way but also ensures the history that is written is compliant to his view. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. 2 issues: 1.was it right for Jomo to allow mzungu to sell back land? YES 2. Was Jomo wrong in using SFT money for him and other big boys? YES Your point is no. 2 above. Any issue with no 1?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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hardwood wrote:The native americans in the US should also have their land back. And they should kick out the "colonizing whites and their black slaves" off their land. That's the logic. To paraphrase Raila, "Watu wakae kwao, kwanini wanakuja kukaa kwenu?"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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B.Timer wrote:tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:The native americans in the US should also have their land back. And they should kick out the "colonizing whites and their black slaves" off their land. It's never a question of 'should they'... it's a question of 'can they'? it's the same in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Argentina and most of latin america... CAN YOU? What numbers do you have? True dat, Now Black South Africans are in Power. They CAN change the situation. Its about righting historical injustice. Its not about having mercy and pity on people who are riding on the poverty inflicted on you by their great grandfather. How they go about it is the archilles hill. Outright land invasions is very unwise. A systematic and compulsory acquisition of assets by govt without compensation and leaving the white owners as mere managers on a salary would probably be a better way to go about it. What you are saying in other words is that the Victor not only has his way but also ensures the history that is written is compliant to his view. Yes... that's the nature of the beast. Even those that seem to want to "right" things have an agenda. It could be political, social or religious but it's an agenda. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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Lolest! wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. 2 issues: 1.was it right for Jomo to allow mzungu to sell back land? YES 2. Was Jomo wrong in using SFT money for him and other big boys? YES Your point is no. 2 above. Any issue with no 1? Did the mzungu buy the land so as to qualify him to sell it back to us? Did he compensate the African for lack of enjoyment of their God given resource before attempting to sell the land back to him? Did the mzungu pay fair wages for black labour so that he can argue that the african can afford to buy back the land? If someone robs you off your car then takes it to the garage and repaints it, fixes tyres and begins to use it, should you then buy it back from him when you finally amass enough power to force him to give it back? They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. 2 issues: 1.was it right for Jomo to allow mzungu to sell back land? YES 2. Was Jomo wrong in using SFT money for him and other big boys? YES Your point is no. 2 above. Any issue with no 1? Did the mzungu buy the land so as to qualify him to sell it back to us? Did he compensate the African for lack of enjoyment of their God given resource before attempting to sell the land back to him? Did the mzungu pay fair wages for black labour so that he can argue that the african can afford to buy back the land? If someone robs you off your car then takes it to the garage and repaints it, fixes tyres and begins to use it, should you then buy it back from him when you finally amass enough power to force him to give it back? The only thing mzungu had when he came was power of the gun. He used it to amass wealth and impoverish africans. Now,South Africans have political power, they should use it to amass wealth and impoverish their oppressors. The mzungu is very keen to protect that which is theirs. You have seen it with Trump and with Brexit. Germany is waiting to boil over. We Africans are the fools, wagging our tails at them waiting for handouts. This has to end. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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tom_boy wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. 2 issues: 1.was it right for Jomo to allow mzungu to sell back land? YES 2. Was Jomo wrong in using SFT money for him and other big boys? YES Your point is no. 2 above. Any issue with no 1? Did the mzungu buy the land so as to qualify him to sell it back to us? Did he compensate the African for lack of enjoyment of their God given resource before attempting to sell the land back to him? Did the mzungu pay fair wages for black labour so that he can argue that the african can afford to buy back the land? If someone robs you off your car then takes it to the garage and repaints it, fixes tyres and begins to use it, should you then buy it back from him when you finally amass enough power to force him to give it back? The only thing mzungu had when he came was power of the gun. He used it to amass wealth and impoverish africans. Now,South Africans have political power, they should use it to amass wealth and impoverish their oppressors. The mzungu is very keen to protect that which is theirs. You have seen it with Trump and with Brexit. Germany is waiting to boil over. We Africans are the fools, wagging our tails at them waiting for handouts. This has to end. I put it to you that most African tribes are in their current homelands due to superior military power and overcoming their neighbours
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Lolest! wrote:tom_boy wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. 2 issues: 1.was it right for Jomo to allow mzungu to sell back land? YES 2. Was Jomo wrong in using SFT money for him and other big boys? YES Your point is no. 2 above. Any issue with no 1? Did the mzungu buy the land so as to qualify him to sell it back to us? Did he compensate the African for lack of enjoyment of their God given resource before attempting to sell the land back to him? Did the mzungu pay fair wages for black labour so that he can argue that the african can afford to buy back the land? If someone robs you off your car then takes it to the garage and repaints it, fixes tyres and begins to use it, should you then buy it back from him when you finally amass enough power to force him to give it back? The only thing mzungu had when he came was power of the gun. He used it to amass wealth and impoverish africans. Now,South Africans have political power, they should use it to amass wealth and impoverish their oppressors. The mzungu is very keen to protect that which is theirs. You have seen it with Trump and with Brexit. Germany is waiting to boil over. We Africans are the fools, wagging our tails at them waiting for handouts. This has to end. I put it to you that most African tribes are in their current homelands due to superior military power and overcoming their neighbours @Lolest, you have an onerous task. Good luck! Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Baratang wrote:tom_boy wrote:Lolest! wrote:harrydre wrote:
It's their land. Let it go back to it's rightful owners. They will learn how to farm in any case, just as their ancestors were forced to mine.
Expropriation without compensation. Let's see how it ends. Me thinks Kenya owes Jomo and his govt for their foresight and not going by this route which was the popular thing to do. Africans in 1963 wanted all whites expelled from Kenya and all their property taken back. But those were trying times. The economy was declining as the whites had started leaving after Mau Mau insurgency broke out in the 50s. A new wave of emigration started when violence broke out in newly independent Congo(DRC) in 1960. With these property prices tumbled and the economy contracted as Whites largely controlled the economy. I think there was wisdom in Kenyatta I's govt opting to negotiate the whites out and compensating them to stem a collapse of the economy. For SA, it is good that they do redistribution but with compensation. Remember these whites have been there since 1652. Our land problems are precisely because Jomo messed us up royally, while playing up to the British. I say SA is on the right track. Only need to avoid Mugabe pitfalls and they will be fine. How the hell do you watch wazungu making millions from the land they kicked your great grandfather out of and just lie down doing nothing. We keep giving excuses for our own inadequacy. @ tom-boy, if you cannot make use of the eighth that you were given by the same great grandfather who worked had to get another plot, what business do you have in that idle land that does not belong to you...bure wewe! Very true. Does it mean kenyans whose land was never taken by mzungu are all millionaires? I mean people in nyanza, turkana, marsabit, wajir, mandera, kitui etc?
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