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President Uhuru Kenyatta 2nd Term - 2017/2022
Ngalaka
#111 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:48:39 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
KulaRaha wrote:
We cant keep borrowing and stealing...one needs to stop.

The one, and the only one that should stop is the stealing, which I agree has been rampant.

In other words we agree, only to the extent that stealing should stop, or at least be brought under control.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
KulaRaha
#112 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 9:51:44 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Ngalaka wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
We cant keep borrowing and stealing...one needs to stop.

The one, and the only one that should stop is the stealing, which I agree has been rampant.

In other words we agree, only to the extent that stealing should stop, or at least be brought under control.


Thieves should be taxed for what they steal...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Liv
#113 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:35:17 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
wukan wrote:


Lunatic express has been here for 100+ years it's not improved our exports. It was a white elephant whose cost of repayment eventually led to the mau mau conflict. The cargo volumes in east africa will not magically go up because of SGR. The cargo volumes to satisfy SGR capacity will appear maybe in 2050. Most of Kenya's valuable exports horticulture are exported through airports not seaports.

I will answer you last queries later



@Wukan,
The highlighted part made me laugh out loudly...."what caused mau mau rebellion?" which history book did you get that from?


wukan
#114 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 2:09:23 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,656
Liv wrote:
wukan wrote:


Lunatic express has been here for 100+ years it's not improved our exports. It was a white elephant whose cost of repayment eventually led to the mau mau conflict. The cargo volumes in east africa will not magically go up because of SGR. The cargo volumes to satisfy SGR capacity will appear maybe in 2050. Most of Kenya's valuable exports horticulture are exported through airports not seaports.

I will answer you last queries later



@Wukan,
The highlighted part made me laugh out loudly...."what caused mau mau rebellion?" which history book did you get that from?




Correct if I'm wrong lunatic express was quite expensive and it had to pay for itself. This was done by encouraging the establishment of 'white highlands'to fuel a modern economy. That also meant forcing the what they called natives into native reserves, the start of the hut tax and poll tax forcing the natives to exchange labor for money to pay tax. Isn't it the peasants who were expelled from the rift valley who gathered up to form the Land and Freedom Army, the army of ithaka na wiathi.

Same thing with SGR instead of 'white highlands' you instead have establishment of Special economic zones SEZs
hardwood
#115 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 2:17:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Liv wrote:
wukan wrote:


Lunatic express has been here for 100+ years it's not improved our exports. It was a white elephant whose cost of repayment eventually led to the mau mau conflict. The cargo volumes in east africa will not magically go up because of SGR. The cargo volumes to satisfy SGR capacity will appear maybe in 2050. Most of Kenya's valuable exports horticulture are exported through airports not seaports.

I will answer you last queries later



@Wukan,
The highlighted part made me laugh out loudly...."what caused mau mau rebellion?" which history book did you get that from?




Why should a truck ferry a container of tea all the way from kericho to mombasa? Or coffee from nyeri. Or macadamia from embu. Or tobacco from kehancha in migori? Or hides and skins from west pokot. Why not put the containers on the SGR at Naivasha or nairobi? There is enough export cargo for SGR.

Also mombasa and coast region gets alot of produce eg maize, beans, wheat, cabbages and manufactured goods from upcountry. These could also be ferried via SGR.
wukan
#116 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 3:26:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,656
Quote:
Can we transport goods cheaply without infrastructure? Can we attain that competitive edge on fear


Yes you can transport goods cheaply without expensive infrastructure. If you are manufacturing for export why not locate the industries at the coastal belt or it is re-export locate the industries in kisumu

Quote:
what creates wealth


Simple wealth is the output of production. The interplay of the factors of production capital, labor, land and technology (human capital) is what turns idle resources into wealth. The road to wealth starts by providing goods and services that the population wants and is willing to pay for. The more goods and services produced the more the wealth and infrastructure to serve the economy grows.
The economy grows where there is an exchange of goods and knowledge. Urban expansion is the best way to promote the exchange of knowledge and promote the division and specialization of labor.

Government spending does not stimulate economic growth. It just redistributes the income it collects from taxes. It misallocates capital towards less productive uses. It is wasteful in expenditure e.g. 10 bob biro pen will cost the govt 150. Kenya economic history shows growth has come when govt has taken a back seat and allowed private sector generate wealth.
Swenani
#117 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 3:33:43 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
wukan wrote:
Quote:
Can we transport goods cheaply without infrastructure? Can we attain that competitive edge on fear


Yes you can transport goods cheaply without expensive infrastructure. If you are manufacturing for export why not locate the industries at the coastal belt or it is re-export locate the industries in kisumu



How would you transport the raw materials? E.g Assume you are exporting tea and the raw materials come from Kericho and the factory is in Mombasa? Also, are raw materials cheap to transport or finished goods?
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
hardwood
#118 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 3:56:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
wukan wrote:


Quote:
what creates wealth


Simple wealth is the output of production. The interplay of the factors of production capital, labor, land and technology (human capital) is what turns idle resources into wealth. The road to wealth starts by providing goods and services that the population wants and is willing to pay for. The more goods and services produced the more the wealth and infrastructure to serve the economy grows.
The economy grows where there is an exchange of goods and knowledge. Urban expansion is the best way to promote the exchange of knowledge and promote the division and specialization of labor.

Government spending does not stimulate economic growth. It just redistributes the income it collects from taxes. It misallocates capital towards less productive uses. It is wasteful in expenditure e.g. 10 bob biro pen will cost the govt 150. Kenya economic history shows growth has come when govt has taken a back seat and allowed private sector generate wealth.


The very reason I was opposing the move by kivutha to get his county govt into business.
wukan
#119 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:33:26 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,656
Swenani wrote:
wukan wrote:
Quote:
Can we transport goods cheaply without infrastructure? Can we attain that competitive edge on fear


Yes you can transport goods cheaply without expensive infrastructure. If you are manufacturing for export why not locate the industries at the coastal belt or it is re-export locate the industries in kisumu



How would you transport the raw materials? E.g Assume you are exporting tea and the raw materials come from Kericho and the factory is in Mombasa? Also, are raw materials cheap to transport or finished goods?


Are you saying when Brooke Bond started tea exports in 1924 they needed the SGR? Read the sentence in context you don't need advanced capital intensive infrastructure to establish industry.
Fullykenyan
#120 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:50:33 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/27/2014
Posts: 560
Location: Eastlando
wukan wrote:
Swenani wrote:
wukan wrote:
Quote:
Can we transport goods cheaply without infrastructure? Can we attain that competitive edge on fear


Yes you can transport goods cheaply without expensive infrastructure. If you are manufacturing for export why not locate the industries at the coastal belt or it is re-export locate the industries in kisumu



How would you transport the raw materials? E.g Assume you are exporting tea and the raw materials come from Kericho and the factory is in Mombasa? Also, are raw materials cheap to transport or finished goods?


Are you saying when Brooke Bond started tea exports in 1924 they needed the SGR? Read the sentence in context you don't need advanced capital intensive infrastructure to establish industry.

Economist Solow in his Solow modell describes how a country can beat poverty in a space of fifteen years
In a nutshell he says, the rate of technogical advacement in a year should exceed populational growth.It is then and only then, that country can beat poverty
In few words, there is no economic growth without investmenting in things like SGR.
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