I beg to divert the debate on this thread slightly.

The biggest threat to theism in Kenya will not come from the AIK but the church itself.

We have always laughed at the outright frauds masquerading as church leaders. Kanyari, Helicopter and the like. But the rot goes all the way up to the mainstream churches. 3 examples below.

Two weeks ago, we were treated to the sad tragedy of top catholic leadership taking ownership of the St. Mary's hospital in Langata. They evicted the founder priest, a white father who brought in the donors who put up the hospital. At that point it sounded okay because they had a court order. But now it turns out that the court order they used that day was forged.

In my church, PCEA, the moderator is the church boss, the equivalent of a CEO. The immediate former moderator is a guy called Rev Gathanju. He is in court for theft of 40M from the church. We are not talking corruption or inflated bills or tender-preneurship, they simply transferred church money to his account. And he refused to refund even after very many requests. That's how the current church leadership decided to have him arrested. Most church properties have been attached by auctioneers. The university was a cash cow for the church leaders and currently is in a mess.

At the ACK, there was a sickening tragi-comedy in Nyeri diocese where the church leadership fired two pastors on accusations of homosexuality. The matter went to court and it later turned out, the two pastors were being targeted by the bishop for refusing to toe his line and let him eat quietly. The alleged victims later recanted and confirmed they were induced by the bishop to falsely accuse the two pastors. The drama does not end there. The high court ruled that the two pastors should be reinstated and compensated. But the top church leadership decided to side with the conniving bishop and went to the court of appeal. One wonders what is driving their fight. Because its definitely not the moral standpoint. Its purely self-preservation.

Two decades ago, it was possible for the church to project an image as the paragon of virtue. They could get away with many things. But not now, not in the information age.

Explosives found in toys!!!

Even you @lonest, we've gone down that road before. I've handled you before. I'm glad you run out of myths and propaganda based on hate and ignorance.

So bro what is your comment on the topic at hand, this is the correct thread...

I beg to divert the debate on this thread slightly.

The biggest threat to theism in Kenya will not come from the AIK but the church itself.

We have always laughed at the outright frauds masquerading as church leaders. Kanyari, Helicopter and the like. But the rot goes all the way up to the mainstream churches. 3 examples below.

Two weeks ago, we were treated to the sad tragedy of top catholic leadership taking ownership of the St. Mary's hospital in Langata. They evicted the founder priest, a white father who brought in the donors who put up the hospital. At that point it sounded okay because they had a court order. But now it turns out that the court order they used that day was forged.

In my church, PCEA, the moderator is the church boss, the equivalent of a CEO. The immediate former moderator is a guy called Rev Gathanju. He is in court for theft of 40M from the church. We are not talking corruption or inflated bills or tender-preneurship, they simply transferred church money to his account. And he refused to refund even after very many requests. That's how the current church leadership decided to have him arrested. Most church properties have been attached by auctioneers. The university was a cash cow for the church leaders and currently is in a mess.

At the ACK, there was a sickening tragi-comedy in Nyeri diocese where the church leadership fired two pastors on accusations of homosexuality. The matter went to court and it later turned out, the two pastors were being targeted by the bishop for refusing to toe his line and let him eat quietly. The alleged victims later recanted and confirmed they were induced by the bishop to falsely accuse the two pastors. The drama does not end there. The high court ruled that the two pastors should be reinstated and compensated. But the top church leadership decided to side with the conniving bishop and went to the court of appeal. One wonders what is driving their fight. Because its definitely not the moral standpoint. Its purely self-preservation.

Two decades ago, it was possible for the church to project an image as the paragon of virtue. They could get away with many things. But not now, not in the information age.

Assuming what you're saying has reasonable degree of truth then we should also note that there are things called 'Church services'.

So you'd still be fooling yourself by inferring that churches and services are exclusive of each other.

1. The halls were not exclusive for youth

2.Programs that used to cater for the youth from govt and corporate organizations dwindled

3. The youth activities became unsustainable

4. Other users like the churches gained prominence.

That is the impression of Churches snuffed out youth activities in community halls is unsustainable. It's like blind blame.

Me I'd asked a genuine question earlier? What are female jihadists promised? 72 virgin men? And all these virgins, once 'popped' what happens? Re-virgination?