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Other religious discourse
Nandwa
#641 Posted : Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:31:23 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
Female Imams running Mosques!
Quote:
With a mission to spread a liberal form of Islam, a mosque where men and women pray side by side has opened its doors in Berlin, complete with female imams.

But
Quote:
Police stood guard outside the entrance of the building.
The founders said they had not received any threats or insults, but that they fully expected not everyone would be happy.
Ates — who has campaigned against forced marriages, domestic violence and so-called "honour killings" among Muslim migrants — said the project was eight years in the making.
"Many left along the way," she said. "They told us it was dangerous, that they were afraid."
Elham Manea, a Swiss political scientist of Yemeni background, said the time had come for change, with other so-called liberal mosques having also opened in the United States, Britain and Switzerland.
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
AlphDoti
#642 Posted : Monday, June 19, 2017 1:26:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
"In Saudi, it's hard to be straight when you're young. The women are shut away so everyone has gay sex. But they only want to have sex with boys – 15- to 21-year-olds. I'm 27, so I'm too old now. I need to find real gays, so this is the best place. All Arab gays want to live in Dubai."

http://www.independent.c...e-of-dubai-1664368.html

Man is evil, no amount of legalism can save him.

What do you expect from gays... You are exporting everything... And you failed to copy paste the statement before that: "Saleh, a lean private in the Saudi Arabian army, has come here for the Coldplay concert, and tells me Dubai is "great" for gays:"

You people have gone there and made the place evil with all manner of illegal acts...

Look at what the Canadian lady confesses to: Her husband, Daniel, bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai," she says. But for the first time in his life, he was beginning to mismanage their finances.
AlphDoti
#643 Posted : Monday, June 19, 2017 1:30:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Nandwa wrote:
Female Imams running Mosques!
Quote:
With a mission to spread a liberal form of Islam, a mosque where men and women pray side by side has opened its doors in Berlin, complete with female imams.

But
Quote:
Police stood guard outside the entrance of the building.
The founders said they had not received any threats or insults, but that they fully expected not everyone would be happy.
Ates — who has campaigned against forced marriages, domestic violence and so-called "honour killings" among Muslim migrants — said the project was eight years in the making.
"Many left along the way," she said. "They told us it was dangerous, that they were afraid."
Elham Manea, a Swiss political scientist of Yemeni background, said the time had come for change, with other so-called liberal mosques having also opened in the United States, Britain and Switzerland.

What we so often forget is that God has honored women by giving them value in relation to God—not in relation to men.

But as Western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left but men. As a result, the Western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing, she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man—the standard.

When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army, and so on. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the “standard” had it.

What she didn’t recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness, not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake.

For 1,400 years, there has been a consensus of scholars that men are to lead prayer.

As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading Prayer is not better just because it is leading.

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer.

But now, for the first time in 1,400 years, we look at a man leading prayer and we think, “that’s not fair.” We think so, although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind him.
Lolest!
#644 Posted : Monday, June 19, 2017 6:21:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
"In Saudi, it's hard to be straight when you're young. The women are shut away so everyone has gay sex. But they only want to have sex with boys – 15- to 21-year-olds. I'm 27, so I'm too old now. I need to find real gays, so this is the best place. All Arab gays want to live in Dubai."

http://www.independent.c...e-of-dubai-1664368.html

Man is evil, no amount of legalism can save him.

What do you expect from gays... You are exporting everything... And you failed to copy paste the statement before that: "Saleh, a lean private in the Saudi Arabian army, has come here for the Coldplay concert, and tells me Dubai is "great" for gays:"

You people have gone there and made the place evil with all manner of illegal acts...

Look at what the Canadian lady confesses to: Her husband, Daniel, bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai," she says. But for the first time in his life, he was beginning to mismanage their finances.

Legalism cannot save

Perhaps why our Lord Jesus moved us away from focus on just actions but the mind where it all starts
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#645 Posted : Tuesday, June 20, 2017 11:32:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
"In Saudi, it's hard to be straight when you're young. The women are shut away so everyone has gay sex. But they only want to have sex with boys – 15- to 21-year-olds. I'm 27, so I'm too old now. I need to find real gays, so this is the best place. All Arab gays want to live in Dubai."

http://www.independent.c...e-of-dubai-1664368.html

Man is evil, no amount of legalism can save him.

What do you expect from gays... You are exporting everything... And you failed to copy paste the statement before that: "Saleh, a lean private in the Saudi Arabian army, has come here for the Coldplay concert, and tells me Dubai is "great" for gays:"

You people have gone there and made the place evil with all manner of illegal acts...

Look at what the Canadian lady confesses to: Her husband, Daniel, bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai," she says. But for the first time in his life, he was beginning to mismanage their finances.

Legalism cannot save

Perhaps why our Lord Jesus moved us away from focus on just actions but the mind where it all starts

That's exactly the problem of your people who go to these countries and they take their evil acts with i.e. alcohol, prostitution and now gayism

As @tycho said, the only way one can one do good is by willing to know what is good and what is evil. Then constantly transform your mind through action.

Unfortunately, you as a Christian believes in simply believing. You just believe and according to you this guarantees people leaving gayism. You are following Paul: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28.)

But you have ignored what Jesus said... "Why are you calling me holy? No one is good other than God alone. If you want eternal life, then follow the laws" (Luka 18:18)

And does God Himself say? "As with body without spirit is dead, is Faith without actions is dead." (Jacob 2:26)

So you prefer to follow Paul instead. And this has not helped you Christians. So many Christians today smuggle alcohol to Dubai. So many of them are agitating for gayism and alcoholism and prostitution to be legalized...
muganda
#646 Posted : Tuesday, June 20, 2017 10:24:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,901
Profound Applause Surely could be the wisest post I've ever read from yours
AlphDoti wrote:

What we so often forget is that God has honored women by giving them value in relation to God—not in relation to men.

But as Western feminism erases God from the scene, there is no standard left but men. As a result, the Western feminist is forced to find her value in relation to a man. And in so doing, she has accepted a faulty assumption. She has accepted that man is the standard, and thus a woman can never be a full human being until she becomes just like a man—the standard.

When a man cut his hair short, she wanted to cut her hair short. When a man joined the army, she wanted to join the army, and so on. She wanted these things for no other reason than because the “standard” had it.

What she didn’t recognize was that God dignifies both men and women in their distinctiveness, not their sameness. And on March 18, Muslim women made the very same mistake.

For 1,400 years, there has been a consensus of scholars that men are to lead prayer.

As a Muslim woman, why does this matter? The one who leads prayer is not spiritually superior in any way. Something is not better just because a man does it. And leading Prayer is not better just because it is leading.

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer.

But now, for the first time in 1,400 years, we look at a man leading prayer and we think, “that’s not fair.” We think so, although God has given no special privilege to the one who leads. The imam is no higher in the eyes of God than the one who prays behind him.

Lolest!
#647 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:09:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
"In Saudi, it's hard to be straight when you're young. The women are shut away so everyone has gay sex. But they only want to have sex with boys – 15- to 21-year-olds. I'm 27, so I'm too old now. I need to find real gays, so this is the best place. All Arab gays want to live in Dubai."

http://www.independent.c...e-of-dubai-1664368.html

Man is evil, no amount of legalism can save him.

What do you expect from gays... You are exporting everything... And you failed to copy paste the statement before that: "Saleh, a lean private in the Saudi Arabian army, has come here for the Coldplay concert, and tells me Dubai is "great" for gays:"

You people have gone there and made the place evil with all manner of illegal acts...

Look at what the Canadian lady confesses to: Her husband, Daniel, bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai," she says. But for the first time in his life, he was beginning to mismanage their finances.

Legalism cannot save

Perhaps why our Lord Jesus moved us away from focus on just actions but the mind where it all starts

That's exactly the problem of your people who go to these countries and they take their evil acts with i.e. alcohol, prostitution and now gayism

As @tycho said, the only way one can one do good is by willing to know what is good and what is evil. Then constantly transform your mind through action.

Unfortunately, you as a Christian believes in simply believing. You just believe and according to you this guarantees people leaving gayism. You are following Paul: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28.)

But you have ignored what Jesus said... "Why are you calling me holy? No one is good other than God alone. If you want eternal life, then follow the laws" (Luka 18:18)

And does God Himself say? "As with body without spirit is dead, is Faith without actions is dead." (Jacob 2:26)

So you prefer to follow Paul instead. And this has not helped you Christians. So many Christians today smuggle alcohol to Dubai. So many of them are agitating for gayism and alcoholism and prostitution to be legalized...

Those are your fellow Muslims engaging in gay sex. Even in your holy land of Saudia

Dude, you can be legalist but you cannot change people's hearts using the law. And the heart of the problem is always a problem of the heart.

Good needs are good, but they will not save you. Worse still, your good deeds are null if you have evil thoughts, that's the Law, the Law under Jesus whom you and Muhammad claim to follow.

And if you break just 1 point of the law, you're guilty of breaking all of it. Like when you bring lies here, you're no different from those gays

Arab world I hear is full of gays. That it's the norm.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
hamburglar
#648 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:44:48 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887
Mukiri wrote:
Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you


This guy must have really seeked the kingdom of god coz he is getting a lot of things added into him and his family.

https://m.news24.com/Sou...ter-luxury-car-20171221

The guy's daughter has just had a maserati added unto her. Praise god.
Mukiri
#649 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:06:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
hamburglar wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you


This guy must have really seeked the kingdom of god coz he is getting a lot of things added into him and his family.

https://m.news24.com/Sou...ter-luxury-car-20171221

The guy's daughter has just had a maserati added unto her. Praise god.

Amensmile

Proverbs 19:21
masukuma
#650 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:47:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer.
.


Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#651 Posted : Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:39:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...
masukuma
#652 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 7:36:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#653 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 7:47:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY

Hata mbwa ya mdosi pia ni mdosi-Kenyan proverb
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#654 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 7:49:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Happy new year AbuDotiLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Mukiri
#655 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 8:15:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY

Hata mbwa ya mdosi pia ni mdosi-Kenyan proverb

smile

Proverbs 19:21
masukuma
#656 Posted : Wednesday, January 17, 2018 10:17:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY

Hata mbwa ya mdosi pia ni mdosi-Kenyan proverb

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
AlphDoti
#657 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:06:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY

Hata mbwa ya mdosi pia ni mdosi-Kenyan proverb

@mavegs, spiritually.

Just like Margret Kenyatta politically in Kenya currently... Quote: by virtue of being the First Lady of Kenya and the pillar to President Uhuru Kenyatta.

Somewhere there is some other women who is greatest in every facet of human being...

Even Vera Sidika ako na lane yake...
masukuma
#658 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 2:46:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
masukuma wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:

Had it been the role of women or had it been more divine, why wouldn’t the Prophet {SAW} have asked Lady `A’ishah or Lady Khadijah, or Lady Fatimah—the greatest women of all time—to lead? These women were promised heaven and yet they never led prayer..

Why should they be labeled as the greatest women of all time? Walifanya nini? ambacho mama yangu na mke wangu hawajafanya? Marie Curie is the greatest woman of all time!

Because they were the wives of the most influencial man in history out of top 100, from time immemorial (research done 1978 by the author Michael H. Hart) Muhammad (salalahu aleihi wa salaam).

Mark you even the other one of the greatest women in history, Mary the mother of Jesus peace be upon them both, never, ever led prayers! And she was the most loved woman by God at the time...

I thought they were great because of SOMETHING THEY DID as opposed to being "great" because someone influential married them. They become important to you over and above a person like Marie Curie or Wangari Mathaai who in DID SOMETHING NOTEWORTHY

Hata mbwa ya mdosi pia ni mdosi-Kenyan proverb

@mavegs, spiritually.

Just like Margret Kenyatta politically in Kenya currently... Quote: by virtue of being the First Lady of Kenya and the pillar to President Uhuru Kenyatta.

Somewhere there is some other women who is greatest in every facet of human being...

Even Vera Sidika ako na lane yake...

while we respect Margret Kenyatta we don't consider her the most <insert verb here> woman because her husband is the most <insert verb here> person in kenya - right? it's a broken system!
Ruto is a hustler and a mchoraji per excellence. we don't automatically attribute the same to Rachel Ruto... Raila is the most unbwogable person in kenya... we don't say Mama Ida is the most unbwogable woman in Kenya! do we?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
FRM2011
#659 Posted : Thursday, January 18, 2018 11:04:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459

I beg to divert the debate on this thread slightly.

The biggest threat to theism in Kenya will not come from the AIK but the church itself.

We have always laughed at the outright frauds masquerading as church leaders. Kanyari, Helicopter and the like. But the rot goes all the way up to the mainstream churches. 3 examples below.

Two weeks ago, we were treated to the sad tragedy of top catholic leadership taking ownership of the St. Mary's hospital in Langata. They evicted the founder priest, a white father who brought in the donors who put up the hospital. At that point it sounded okay because they had a court order. But now it turns out that the court order they used that day was forged.

In my church, PCEA, the moderator is the church boss, the equivalent of a CEO. The immediate former moderator is a guy called Rev Gathanju. He is in court for theft of 40M from the church. We are not talking corruption or inflated bills or tender-preneurship, they simply transferred church money to his account. And he refused to refund even after very many requests. That's how the current church leadership decided to have him arrested. Most church properties have been attached by auctioneers. The university was a cash cow for the church leaders and currently is in a mess.

At the ACK, there was a sickening tragi-comedy in Nyeri diocese where the church leadership fired two pastors on accusations of homosexuality. The matter went to court and it later turned out, the two pastors were being targeted by the bishop for refusing to toe his line and let him eat quietly. The alleged victims later recanted and confirmed they were induced by the bishop to falsely accuse the two pastors. The drama does not end there. The high court ruled that the two pastors should be reinstated and compensated. But the top church leadership decided to side with the conniving bishop and went to the court of appeal. One wonders what is driving their fight. Because its definitely not the moral standpoint. Its purely self-preservation.

Two decades ago, it was possible for the church to project an image as the paragon of virtue. They could get away with many things. But not now, not in the information age.
Lolest!
#660 Posted : Friday, January 19, 2018 5:31:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
FRM2011 wrote:

I beg to divert the debate on this thread slightly.

The biggest threat to theism in Kenya will not come from the AIK but the church itself.

We have always laughed at the outright frauds masquerading as church leaders. Kanyari, Helicopter and the like. But the rot goes all the way up to the mainstream churches. 3 examples below.

Two weeks ago, we were treated to the sad tragedy of top catholic leadership taking ownership of the St. Mary's hospital in Langata. They evicted the founder priest, a white father who brought in the donors who put up the hospital. At that point it sounded okay because they had a court order. But now it turns out that the court order they used that day was forged.

In my church, PCEA, the moderator is the church boss, the equivalent of a CEO. The immediate former moderator is a guy called Rev Gathanju. He is in court for theft of 40M from the church. We are not talking corruption or inflated bills or tender-preneurship, they simply transferred church money to his account. And he refused to refund even after very many requests. That's how the current church leadership decided to have him arrested. Most church properties have been attached by auctioneers. The university was a cash cow for the church leaders and currently is in a mess.

At the ACK, there was a sickening tragi-comedy in Nyeri diocese where the church leadership fired two pastors on accusations of homosexuality. The matter went to court and it later turned out, the two pastors were being targeted by the bishop for refusing to toe his line and let him eat quietly. The alleged victims later recanted and confirmed they were induced by the bishop to falsely accuse the two pastors. The drama does not end there. The high court ruled that the two pastors should be reinstated and compensated. But the top church leadership decided to side with the conniving bishop and went to the court of appeal. One wonders what is driving their fight. Because its definitely not the moral standpoint. Its purely self-preservation.

Two decades ago, it was possible for the church to project an image as the paragon of virtue. They could get away with many things. But not now, not in the information age.

Wewe atheist kumbuka pia Yesu alifanya kazi na Judas na huyo Judas alikuwa mweka hazina ambaye aliiba fedha hizo
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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