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religion demystified
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T-Bag
#11 Posted : Tuesday, December 12, 2017 1:49:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 510
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong
I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:44 PM | Reason: Not specified
2012
#12 Posted : Tuesday, December 12, 2017 2:07:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
mpobiz wrote:
Jesus or Muhammad , who come first?
If your answer is Jesus it means muhammed was Christian until he led a protestant group which called itself Muslim. The same way the first church broke up until today we have sects like akorino or legio maria , momons also check a religion like santeria in Cuba where witchcraft mixes with catholicism any it's accepted and they still call themselves Christians. But all said the mother of both christianity and Islam is judaism. Because the foundation of both the Bible and Koran is based on Jewish history. So to sum it up ..
WE ARE ALL JEWISH BY RELIGION MPENDE MSIPENDE THAT IS IF YOUR RELIGIONS ORIGIN IS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.



I fail to agree. Not everyone who came after Jesus is automatically a Christian. Even the Jews are not Christians yet they hold the ancestry of Jesus. I therefore don't think Mohammed was a Christian. Islam roots are from the first son of Abraham, Ishmael while Jesus's is from Abraham's second son Isaac.

BBI will solve it :)
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masukuma
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:35:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:43 PM | Reason: Not specified
tycho
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:00:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?


The symbol being not the thing, can be substituted for other symbols and meanings.

But the math is be deplorable. Check on Nietzsche's critique on Pascal in depth, on the anti-Christ.

Religion is metaphysics simplified via mythology, so one can imagine how basic it is for analysis and comprehension.
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masukuma
#15 Posted : Thursday, December 14, 2017 3:11:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?


The symbol being not the thing, can be substituted for other symbols and meanings.

But the math is be deplorable. Check on Nietzsche's critique on Pascal in depth, on the anti-Christ.

Religion is metaphysics simplified via mythology, so one can imagine how basic it is for analysis and comprehension.

Nietzsche's critique is Nietzsche's critique.... you have just read my critique! P.s. Pascal opened the door when u attempted to use reason and logic to deduce his best option... why can't I use the same?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Mukiri
#16 Posted : Thursday, December 14, 2017 6:21:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?

Proverbs 19:21
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masukuma
#17 Posted : Thursday, December 14, 2017 6:29:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


2 questions
1) is your God synonymous with Vishnu? i.e. is Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) God?
2) is are acts of obedience towards/belief to Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) the same acts of obedience towards/belief towards God?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Mukiri
#18 Posted : Friday, December 15, 2017 3:54:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
masukuma wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


2 questions
1) is your God synonymous with Vishnu? i.e. is Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) God?
2) is are acts of obedience towards/belief to Vishnu ( or Thor or Jupiter or Zeus) the same acts of obedience towards/belief towards God?

When describing a cow, those viewing it from the mouth might say 'If produces interesting liquids and solids' probably referring to the saliva and food crumbs. Those from the side might even go as far as 'One can even pet it' probably referring to the sweat. Bot fresh and dried. Those viewing it from the anus (And no I'm not saying this is where you choose to be) might not find te oter two people to be very amusing! Same cow.

Conjecture. You choose to argue on semantics. But when viewed in totality, God is God. He is who He is.

I look at an Indian and I see myself. A man with nose, a skin and hair like me. Never mind the genetic differences. Same thing when I look at a European and/or Hispanic. I can then conclude that the God that created them, is the same God that created me. That is what matters

Proverbs 19:21
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tycho
#19 Posted : Friday, December 15, 2017 2:23:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?


The symbol being not the thing, can be substituted for other symbols and meanings.

But the math is be deplorable. Check on Nietzsche's critique on Pascal in depth, on the anti-Christ.

Religion is metaphysics simplified via mythology, so one can imagine how basic it is for analysis and comprehension.

Nietzsche's critique is Nietzsche's critique.... you have just read my critique! P.s. Pascal opened the door when u attempted to use reason and logic to deduce his best option... why can't I use the same?


Critiques are never exclusive property. They are meant to refine what we're going through in the present.

At this moment it would be of benefit to consider Pascal's in the context of criticism leveled against his position(s).

For one, the position of logic failed even for him!

Again my point is that the implements of reason may be faulty...
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Enuma Elish
#20 Posted : Friday, December 15, 2017 8:19:42 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/5/2014
Posts: 47
Mukiri wrote:
masukuma wrote:
T-Bag wrote:
Let people believe what their convictions are, in the fullness of time all will be revealed.
My Logic reasoning
1. God + believe = Heaven gain
2. No God + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No God + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. God + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

Conclusion: I would rather believe on what does not exist than disbelief and find out i was wrong

Pascal's Wager? it's a pretty good thought process....
except when you realize 'God' is your 'God' and that title is not exactly some other person's 'God' - right?

now look outside yourself to someone in another belief system:
a Hindu in Nepal:
Logic reasoning
1. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Nirvana gain
2. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + Believe = Loss for everyone
3. No (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for everyone
4. (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

To him - the Wager works - right? Let's match the best outcomes (1 and 4)

1) God + believe = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + believe = Heaven gain
4) God + No belief = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin) + No belief = Loss for those who don't believe.

so... we can deduce that God = (Vishnu + Shiva + Brahmin). we just picked 2 out of the around 4,200 CONFIDENT religions. how does that math play out?

My neighbor calls his God Mungu, the other Enkai while another Allah. Just like some will call you Ma-Kales, ma-thokoma etc does it change who you are?


I’ve always wondered whether Enkai = Enki. The god who features heavily in the ancient Sumerian texts, widely regarded as the progenitor to the Holy Bible.
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