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ICC CASES GONE SHREDDED
thuks
#41 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 6:40:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
masukuma wrote:
digitek1 wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
" Retaliatory violence planned in November in statehouse without president knowledge " ICC

how now Liar Liar

retaliation - i.e. defined as 'To return like for like, especially evil for evil.'
so.... attacks to revenge attacks on kyuks were planned 1 month before the attacks they were supposed to revenge took place? Wow! they must have been gazing into one or both of Mutua's crystal balls.


The only time the ball ever got it rightLaughing out loudly
I care!
tycho
#42 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:32:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
There are limits to credible investigations in any nation state. And one limit is that the State, or major state actors should not be the subjects of investigation.

The formation of the grand coalition government is evidence enough that major state actors were involved in the PEV. Otherwise, what was the need for political positions that were not subject to popular vote? It means that there were powerful forces that needed to be appeased, and the evidence for these forces was PEV.

That is, 'peace' followed the political settlement called the grand coalition, implying causal relations.

This means that our political elite are least likely to solve this problem.
masukuma
#43 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 8:56:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
There are limits to credible investigations in any nation state. And one limit is that the State, or major state actors should not be the subjects of investigation.

The formation of the grand coalition government is evidence enough that major state actors were involved in the PEV. Otherwise, what was the need for political positions that were not subject to popular vote? It means that there were powerful forces that needed to be appeased, and the evidence for these forces was PEV.

That is, 'peace' followed the political settlement called the grand coalition, implying causal relations.

This means that our political elite are least likely to solve this problem.

Serikali mahuTUti wa not to appease the state but rather ODOmoz. Rift valley was unpassable and was chocking kenya.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
tycho
#44 Posted : Monday, April 29, 2013 10:43:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
tycho wrote:
There are limits to credible investigations in any nation state. And one limit is that the State, or major state actors should not be the subjects of investigation.

The formation of the grand coalition government is evidence enough that major state actors were involved in the PEV. Otherwise, what was the need for political positions that were not subject to popular vote? It means that there were powerful forces that needed to be appeased, and the evidence for these forces was PEV.

That is, 'peace' followed the political settlement called the grand coalition, implying causal relations.

This means that our political elite are least likely to solve this problem.

Serikali mahuTUti wa not to appease the state but rather ODOmoz. Rift valley was unpassable and was chocking kenya.


There was a time when areas around Mt. Elgon were unliveable, and the state moved in with force, and went as far as pinpointing the prime suspects. The Kenyan state has even managed to identify criminals in Somalia and to deal with them justly and forcefully.

How can we then say that a political solution was the only way out of PEV? Were there forces that were more organized than Al Shabaab?

Who are the ODOMOZ? Where are they now?

There's no way we can exclude some people from culpability. Even Annan is involved. All of us played along, irrespective of political affiliation.
Tokyo
#45 Posted : Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:01:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
Evidence is all over . Who did what. YouTube etc . Another idea is get those who are known. Figa those balls. Wakinyamaza fuja moja wataongea
work to prosper
masukuma
#46 Posted : Friday, October 06, 2017 1:28:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
Annti_Christy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Annti_Christy wrote:
tycho wrote:
MatataMingi wrote:
The ICC did NOT investigate. Period

MO got his evidence from KNHR .

Kia, Hassan & co. coached the " witnesses "

Will all this stand in court. I really doubt.

Having said this, it does not mean PEV did not happen.
Some people are responsible - BUT maybe they are charging the wrong guys.

I still think the fault lies with MO for NOT doing his job

SAD, really SAD


I believe this kind of reasoning is wrong, and irresponsible. This is because the ICC was involved after Kenya failed, through her institutions, to address crimes committed within her borders, and her leaders appealed for help from the ICC.

Worse still was the fact that the 'nusu mkate' deal had brought contention to rest. That is, the grand coalition was the convinient solution that killed the ICC process before it began.

Ocampo was only left to bark and threaten but not to bite.

The onus of the matter is on the work-a-day citizen, who unfortunately, is waiting for a solution from without. The citizen has been alienated from his interests and now fights for the politicians.






i agree. i think investigations were done alright. Waki did investigate and recommended prosecutions. i think there is a difference between witnesses not cooperating leading to collapse of cases and shoddy investigation leading to collapse of cases. We kenyans are more used to shoddy investigating from our police leading to collapse of even the simplest cases and that is what we are familiar with.

Waki's tribunal did not investigate - it wrote a report based on people who came before it and made claims - these facts were never verified since it could not (its was not an investigative body) - the results of its 'findings' were given to GOK and ICC both of which did not investigate further. Ocampo just picked the Waki and KNHRC reports and did 'picky picky ponkey' WITHOUT VERIFYING.... Anyone who read the charge sheets could see what I am talking about - it was word for word the law... "created a common plan" please....


but we could argue on the where the verification of these facts could take place. you would say at the police station, another would say at court.

the prosecuting authority needs to cover itself... you cannot take people to court based only on what someone came to the police station and 'andikishad statement'... you need to go out of your way and verify the same statement - because the burden of proof is yours in court it is not the accussed..if not you are looking at a scenario where you end up with Egg on your face because you together with the judges find out the facts in the court!.... Ocampo did very jua kali work in that he took the OB to court and tengenezad a charge sheet based on it.... but what were we expecting? the guy was a TV prosecutor? He loves the spot light.... do you remember the statement that he was going to use kenya as an example? hmmm? the guy is a star... ona hii clip




Ni kama TV ndlama...

http://www.nation.co.ke/...7890-v790xsz/index.html

I am sure there is a kid named Ocampo somewhere in Kenya who will regret the name the folks gave him.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
washiku
#47 Posted : Saturday, October 14, 2017 3:18:26 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
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