wazua Sat, May 9, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

3 Pages<123>
Catalonian referendum and questions of nationhood
sparkly
#11 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 12:42:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
President Moi for so long opposed majimbo, then we got a new constitution and introduced Majimbo (Devolution) but its not enough. Maybe allowing the Luo to secede and join their brothers up the Nile is not such a bad idea. Ndii can join them.
Life is short. Live passionately.
FRM2011
#12 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 12:46:20 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Can't help but think maybe the residents of NEP would be better off today had they joined their kin in Somalia.

How?


After forcing them to stay when they wanted to leave, didn't we abandon them completely. The govt did not invest anything there. Wajir got its first inch of tarmac after devolution.
Lolest!
#13 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 1:04:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
FRM2011 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Can't help but think maybe the residents of NEP would be better off today had they joined their kin in Somalia.

How?


After forcing them to stay when they wanted to leave, didn't we abandon them completely. The govt did not invest anything there. Wajir got its first inch of tarmac after devolution.

I'm just looking at how many Somalia Somalis are bribing to get to Kenya

Their businessmen and politicians wamejaza Kenya, looking for biz opportunities

I'm sure NEP would be regretting if they had succeeded in joining Somalia

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Njung'e
#14 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 1:18:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
We cannot compare NEP and the Ndii State with Catalonia. What needs to be said is that Catalonia was always a nation by itself until Philip the 5th invaded Barcelona in 1714. That nationhood has never gone away. It also happens that Catalonia is the richest of all the regions of Spain and Catalonians feel that the rest of the Spanish people live off their backs. It will, however take more than the current attempts since the Catalonians themselves are divided in the middle with the loyalists, who are referred to as Botiflers (Bootlickers of Philip the 5th)
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
masukuma
#15 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 1:24:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Can't help but think maybe the residents of NEP would be better off today had they joined their kin in Somalia.

How?


After forcing them to stay when they wanted to leave, didn't we abandon them completely. The govt did not invest anything there. Wajir got its first inch of tarmac after devolution.

I'm just looking at how many Somalia Somalis are bribing to get to Kenya

Their businessmen and politicians wamejaza Kenya, looking for biz opportunities

I'm sure NEP would be regretting if they had succeeded in joining Somalia


Ask NEP if they feel it's a good Idea joining the greater somaliland... a djibuti, Ogaden, Somaliland, Somalia.

in 2019, the Bougainvilleans will decide whether they want out of PNG. West Papua and Ache (Banda Ache???) want out of Indonesia, East Timor wanted out of Indonesia... YOU SEE... this is more common than we think!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Anti_Burglar
#16 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 1:55:11 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/11/2015
Posts: 1,024



Perhaps if there was a greater Somaliland, Said Barre and his government would have chosen a different path and the outcome and future of the region could have been very different from what it is now.

Kenya would have been a land locked country for starters.
Lolest!
#17 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 2:32:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Anti_Burglar wrote:



Perhaps if there was a greater Somaliland, Said Barre and his government would have chosen a different path and the outcome and future of the region could have been very different from what it is now.

Kenya would have been a land locked country for starters.

shouldacouldawoulda

But I've been asking myself my what-ifs too

Like how would Kenya have been if we had remained with the old map where parts of today's Somalia upto Kismayu were in Kenya while Naivasha westwards was in Uganda?




How would Kenya have been a landlocked country if the NEP secession had succeeded?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#18 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 2:54:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Anti_Burglar wrote:



Perhaps if there was a greater Somaliland, Said Barre and his government would have chosen a different path and the outcome and future of the region could have been very different from what it is now.

Kenya would have been a land locked country for starters.

shouldacouldawoulda

But I've been asking myself my what-ifs too

Like how would Kenya have been if we had remained with the old map where parts of today's Somalia upto Kismayu were in Kenya while Naivasha westwards was in Uganda?




How would Kenya have been a landlocked country if the NEP secession had succeeded?


Maps don't decide the nature and histories of states as the leading ideas behind them.

So consider the dynamics of the Suez, the railway and ultimately the question of the nation state of Israel.

That is, the NEP secession hasn't and may not happen due to these global forces.


FRM2011
#19 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 3:01:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Njung'e wrote:
We cannot compare NEP and the Ndii State with Catalonia. What needs to be said is that Catalonia was always a nation by itself until Philip the 5th invaded Barcelona in 1714. That nationhood has never gone away. It also happens that Catalonia is the richest of all the regions of Spain and Catalonians feel that the rest of the Spanish people live off their backs. It will, however take more than the current attempts since the Catalonians themselves are divided in the middle with the loyalists, who are referred to as Botiflers (Bootlickers of Philip the 5th)


Thanks @Guka for that perspective. Didn't know the history goes that far back.

Let me pose a hypothetical question to you specifically. Suppose the catalonians were unanimous to the last man that they want independence (>95%), shouldn't divorce be the most palatable option ? Should Madrid's quest to preserve statehood overide the catalonians quest for nationhood ?

And I agree with you, Ndii shouldn't feature anywhere on this thread.
Kusadikika
#20 Posted : Monday, October 02, 2017 3:09:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,723
masukuma wrote:
I must admit - I don't know how the US has stayed united all this time. I haven't really thought about it properly. However, dispite the disparities they have been able to keep their country united (with exclusion of the times Texas always wants out when a democrat president takes the helm). I think they have done this over and over again by
1) creating an enemy 'outside'. Sometimes all these wars may be thought of a way of uniting people at home. the narrative of our soldiers fighting for our freedom outside may be unifying
2) Media - movies have done this over and over again. sometimes painting the outside world as vile (the russians for a while, the Vietnamese). Movies that show how poor the rest of the world must massage the egos of the poor side of the US... knowing... we are better off than those people. As Binyavanga Wainaina once quipped in a video - perhaps the US needs Africa as a boogieman... the one you point at when you want kids to eat their veggies. The one you point out when someone is feeling unsatisfied with the status quo.


Hey Masukuma, a good place to start on understanding the history of the US is Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations the chapter titled "Of Colonies".

Here is a link:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN17.html

Wealth of Nations was published in the year 1776 the same year that the US got its independence.

Another great book is Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America". De tocqueville was a French Aristocrat who visited the US for 9 months in the year 1830.

https://www.amazon.com/D...601/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

What is interesting about reading these 2 texts is that they were written when the US was still a very young country. They are a very interesting read more so if you ever get to visit the US and observe some structures of society described 200 years ago still very much alive in the modern US.
3 Pages<123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.