Wazua
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Sweetness of death
Rank: Member Joined: 9/25/2008 Posts: 510
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My body is made of stardust thus The Sun has everything to do with it. I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Life, can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only be transformed from one state and form to another.
Death is just an illusion. Amen my brother What took you so long? I'm still plodding along... I think I've gotten what I've been searching for: Think about the sun, where does it get its hydrogen supply? If you check on google you'll get many results indicating that the sun's hydrogen supply is depletable. Thus the sun can and will die. But look at the following scenario. In a blackbody with chemicals like water for example, the inherent electromagnetic fields would weaken hydrogen bonds and would work like electrolytic cells... thus the hydrogen atoms would be free to teleport to the sun-the suns demand for hydrogen being the reason for the teleport. Thus the hydrogen supply would be in a cycle. If my thinking is correct then the quasi-constant cosmology would hold and thus the first assertion about life never ending. Me I think you don't have to invoke teleportation in order to explain the perpetual and cyclic nature of the cosnmos. Just answer the question, where does the matter that falls into a black hole end up? My theory is that it ends ups in an alternate Universe that is partly mapped onto this one. Thus many stars could be reverse blackholes. Could this also explain the black matter/black energy phenomenon? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Life, can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only be transformed from one state and form to another.
Death is just an illusion. Amen my brother What took you so long? I'm still plodding along... I think I've gotten what I've been searching for: Think about the sun, where does it get its hydrogen supply? If you check on google you'll get many results indicating that the sun's hydrogen supply is depletable. Thus the sun can and will die. But look at the following scenario. In a blackbody with chemicals like water for example, the inherent electromagnetic fields would weaken hydrogen bonds and would work like electrolytic cells... thus the hydrogen atoms would be free to teleport to the sun-the suns demand for hydrogen being the reason for the teleport. Thus the hydrogen supply would be in a cycle. If my thinking is correct then the quasi-constant cosmology would hold and thus the first assertion about life never ending. Me I think you don't have to invoke teleportation in order to explain the perpetual and cyclic nature of the cosnmos. Just answer the question, where does the matter that falls into a black hole end up? My theory is that it ends ups in an alternate Universe that is partly mapped onto this one. Thus many stars could be reverse blackholes. Could this also explain the black matter/black energy phenomenon? I don't think you understood what I was saying. But to use your argument: If the laws of the universe are uniform and there's another universe attached to it, then that implies that this other universe has the same laws. But consider in what way our universe manifests these laws. It's by quantum probabilities. So the other universe would be one of quantum probabilities. That means one wouldn't be able to differentiate between the two universes and thus they'd be the same... Now, what would facilitate such collapsing of universes? In my argument I was considering the sun. How would the sun survive in such a universe? Teleportation is a phenomenon of the quantum universe so it has a use. What use could it be for? Finally, our universe, just like most things in it, is likely to be a black body in itself and this would account for what we call 'dark matter'.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Life, can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only be transformed from one state and form to another.
Death is just an illusion. Amen my brother What took you so long? I'm still plodding along... I think I've gotten what I've been searching for: Think about the sun, where does it get its hydrogen supply? If you check on google you'll get many results indicating that the sun's hydrogen supply is depletable. Thus the sun can and will die. But look at the following scenario. In a blackbody with chemicals like water for example, the inherent electromagnetic fields would weaken hydrogen bonds and would work like electrolytic cells... thus the hydrogen atoms would be free to teleport to the sun-the suns demand for hydrogen being the reason for the teleport. Thus the hydrogen supply would be in a cycle. If my thinking is correct then the quasi-constant cosmology would hold and thus the first assertion about life never ending. Me I think you don't have to invoke teleportation in order to explain the perpetual and cyclic nature of the cosnmos. Just answer the question, where does the matter that falls into a black hole end up? My theory is that it ends ups in an alternate Universe that is partly mapped onto this one. Thus many stars could be reverse blackholes. Could this also explain the black matter/black energy phenomenon? I don't think you understood what I was saying. But to use your argument: If the laws of the universe are uniform and there's another universe attached to it, then that implies that this other universe has the same laws. Of course I didn't understand much of what you wrote, it would be news if I did. But I get the broad drift and I was just trying to simplify things. Let me get even more simplistic. There are two broad classes of so called 'immutable' laws of the Universe, both of which you allude to: (1) The Newton/Einstein class: essentially physical laws that try to describe the action and interaction between two/four basic elements: space/time, matter/energy and the forces, waves and particles they generate. Together these laws describe all the macro and much of the micro Universe too. (2) The Plank/Pauli/Heisenberg class: Quantum mechanics, which describes fundamental reality as essentially probability waves - no fixed states or locations. The link between the two is the observer. Observation is the singular act that collapses the quantum probability waves to enable particles or processes to acquire discrete states and locations - to behave according to the first set of laws. This, as I have often argued, proves that the reality we take for granted is not real, otherwise it should not change by the simple act of observation. Or, to put it another way, since the micro Universe is the foundation on which the macro Universe rests, then the reality we perceive is subject to the same quantum, probability, laws and what we perceive as discrete reality is actually illusion. In other words you, Tycho, do not exist except as a wave function - a set of all probabilities that could ever be. The day I observe you that wave will collapse for me and I will select one of those probabilities and hold it as my illusory estimation (a macro description) of the entity Tycho. But in reality you will still be a probability wave, only I will no longer perceive you that way. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, there's no observer. Only probabilities choosing and forming themselves.
Tycho is only a probable set description. The more Tycho tries to be Tycho, the less he becomes. In that case Tycho is dead.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, there's no observer. Only probabilities choosing and forming themselves.
Tycho is only a probable set description. The more Tycho tries to be Tycho, the less he becomes. In that case Tycho is dead. This is an interesting take Tycho, that the observer is a probability wave too. I think you are right but I have have to think about it some more. Meanwhile here is my key lesson from all this: The quantum state applies to individuals as well as to the micro and macro Universe. You Tycho are a set of infinite probability waves representing the range of all you are, have been and could ever be. You select which wave to collapse (become) through the act of observation (or choice) You can become anything you ever want so long as you apply your consciousness to choosing it. The quantum Universe demands it. You create your reality. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, there's no observer. Only probabilities choosing and forming themselves.
Tycho is only a probable set description. The more Tycho tries to be Tycho, the less he becomes. In that case Tycho is dead. This is an interesting take Tycho, that the observer is a probability wave too. I think you are right but I have have to think about it some more. Meanwhile here is my key lesson from all this: The quantum state applies to individuals as well as to the micro and macro Universe. You Tycho are a set of infinite probability waves representing the range of all you are, have been and could ever be. You select which wave to collapse (become) through the act of observation (or choice) You can become anything you ever want so long as you apply your consciousness to choosing it. The quantum Universe demands it. You create your reality. An 'individual' is an abstraction we make. Let's start by asking how humans work. Google doesn't have a direct answer to this question. But we can figure it out ourselves if we have sufficient info. One important bit of info comes from the Indian philosopher Patanjali. There's a distinction between 'awareness' and 'consciousness' and that when you become aware then there's no need for knowledge. I've been working to understand the difference and it's there! So consciousness isn't the big thing we take it to be. Besides, let's consider what psychology/psychiatry or even cognitive science tells us about consciousness... it can be misguided without us knowing it for example. My point: reality creates itself. Our agency is an abstraction and or a compulsion of forces on us. The most 'we' can do is optimize our states of being and accepting everything.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, there's no observer. Only probabilities choosing and forming themselves.
Tycho is only a probable set description. The more Tycho tries to be Tycho, the less he becomes. In that case Tycho is dead. This is an interesting take Tycho, that the observer is a probability wave too. I think you are right but I have have to think about it some more. Meanwhile here is my key lesson from all this: The quantum state applies to individuals as well as to the micro and macro Universe. You Tycho are a set of infinite probability waves representing the range of all you are, have been and could ever be. You select which wave to collapse (become) through the act of observation (or choice) You can become anything you ever want so long as you apply your consciousness to choosing it. The quantum Universe demands it. You create your reality. An 'individual' is an abstraction we make. Let's start by asking how humans work. Google doesn't have a direct answer to this question. But we can figure it out ourselves if we have sufficient info. One important bit of info comes from the Indian philosopher Patanjali. There's a distinction between 'awareness' and 'consciousness' and that when you become aware then there's no need for knowledge. I've been working to understand the difference and it's there! So consciousness isn't the big thing we take it to be. Besides, let's consider what psychology/psychiatry or even cognitive science tells us about consciousness... it can be misguided without us knowing it for example. My point: reality creates itself. Our agency is an abstraction and or a compulsion of forces on us. The most 'we' can do is optimize our states of being and accepting everything. Awareness versus consciousness My take: Consciousness is a tool. Awareness is a state. We apply consciousness in order to arrive at awareness and other states. We also apply the tool of consciousness to create reality, by collapsing select wave functions, thus allowing quantum reality to morph into 3D reality. Reality does not create itself. How can it, when observation seems to be an absolute requirement - ala quantum theory - in its creation? If there is observation it logically follows there must be an observer, no? As for individuality, yes I agree with you. It is an illusion, a useful one though as it enables differentiation and simplification of what would otherwise be very complex reality. Ultimately all there is Unity/Singularity and quantum mechanics implies this, seeing as many of its weird states and behaviors are resolved if we discount the existence of space/time. Poor Einstein. I fear his days are numbered. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, there's no observer. Only probabilities choosing and forming themselves.
Tycho is only a probable set description. The more Tycho tries to be Tycho, the less he becomes. In that case Tycho is dead. This is an interesting take Tycho, that the observer is a probability wave too. I think you are right but I have have to think about it some more. Meanwhile here is my key lesson from all this: The quantum state applies to individuals as well as to the micro and macro Universe. You Tycho are a set of infinite probability waves representing the range of all you are, have been and could ever be. You select which wave to collapse (become) through the act of observation (or choice) You can become anything you ever want so long as you apply your consciousness to choosing it. The quantum Universe demands it. You create your reality. An 'individual' is an abstraction we make. Let's start by asking how humans work. Google doesn't have a direct answer to this question. But we can figure it out ourselves if we have sufficient info. One important bit of info comes from the Indian philosopher Patanjali. There's a distinction between 'awareness' and 'consciousness' and that when you become aware then there's no need for knowledge. I've been working to understand the difference and it's there! So consciousness isn't the big thing we take it to be. Besides, let's consider what psychology/psychiatry or even cognitive science tells us about consciousness... it can be misguided without us knowing it for example. My point: reality creates itself. Our agency is an abstraction and or a compulsion of forces on us. The most 'we' can do is optimize our states of being and accepting everything. Awareness versus consciousness My take: Consciousness is a tool. Awareness is a state. We apply consciousness in order to arrive at awareness and other states. We also apply the tool of consciousness to create reality, by collapsing select wave functions, thus allowing quantum reality to morph into 3D reality. Reality does not create itself. How can it, when observation seems to be an absolute requirement - ala quantum theory - in its creation? If there is observation it logically follows there must be an observer, no? As for individuality, yes I agree with you. It is an illusion, a useful one though as it enables differentiation and simplification of what would otherwise be very complex reality. Ultimately all there is Unity/Singularity and quantum mechanics implies this, seeing as many of its weird states and behaviors are resolved if we discount the existence of space/time. Poor Einstein. I fear his days are numbered. Think about it; what is observation? How do we observe? You may imply that observation is a conscious thing but most observation happens sub and unconsciously. Yet this unconscious behavior is a choice. A human is made up of many autonomously relating units that can be seen as 'monads'. That's why the body's information system can be screwed up and create a condition like cancer. All these monads interelate to create unities that we assume to be continuous. Or consider, why do seasons fail? And why did the ancients believe in rain making?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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http://www.earlymodernte...s/pdfs/leibniz1714b.pdf
Leibniz, Spinoza; especially the latter has been in my mind so much in the past few days. What leads a philosopher to choose a vocation save the implication of his understanding of life? So when Spinoza chose grinding lenses what did it imply to our subject of conversation? I suspect the monad is at the heart of the answer. Else how could he be so confident of his freedom? Quote:Spinoza was offered the chair of philosophy at the University of Heidelberg, but he refused it, perhaps because of the possibility that it might in some way curb his freedom of thought.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Still on Spinoza: Quote:He contended that everything that exists in Nature (i.e., everything in the Universe) is one Reality (substance) and there is only one set of rules governing the whole of the reality which surrounds us and of which we are part. Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality Quote:Spinoza was a thoroughgoing determinist who held that absolutely everything that happens occurs through the operation of necessity. For him, even human behaviour is fully determined, with freedom being our capacity to know we are determined and to understand why we act as we do. By forming more "adequate" ideas about what we do and our emotions or affections, we become the adequate cause of our effects (internal or external), which entails an increase in activity (versus passivity). This means that we become both more free and more like God, as Spinoza argues in the Scholium to Prop. 49, Part II. However, Spinoza also held that everything must necessarily happen the way that it does. Therefore, humans have no free will. They believe, however, that their will is free. This illusionary perception of freedom stems from our human consciousness, experience, and indifference to prior natural causes. Humans think they are free but they ″dream with their eyes open″. For Spinoza, our actions are guided entirely by natural impulses. In his letter to G. H. Schuller (Letter 58), he wrote: "men are conscious of their desire and unaware of the causes by which [their desires] are determined."
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/25/2008 Posts: 510
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We fear death, but what if dying isn't as bad as we think? To live is joy to die is peace what is not to like? https://www.theguardian....-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thinkI AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. Death is unknown by the ignorant. The wise always think about death and some even get to know and understand it!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. Death is unknown by the ignorant. The wise always think about death and some even get to know and understand it!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. Death is unknown by the ignorant. The wise always think about death and some even get to know and understand it! I have to admit I'm in the ignorant category. I really would not mind holding & playing with my grandkids kids.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. The greatest mystery, IMHO, is how a lump of otherwise inanimate matter becomes animated to become conscious and to serve as a vehicle for the human being. Death is the process by which this consciousness transitions from one vehicle to another (or maybe to none) when its temporary purpose in a realm of existence is served. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,570 Location: nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. The greatest mystery, IMHO, is how a lump of otherwise inanimate matter becomes animated to become conscious and to serve as a vehicle for the human being. Death is the process by which this consciousness transitions from one vehicle to another (or maybe to none) when its temporary purpose in a realm of existence is served. I personally don't fear death but the effect it would have emotionally for my loved ones. Financially they will be OK
COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. The greatest mystery, IMHO, is how a lump of otherwise inanimate matter becomes animated to become conscious and to serve as a vehicle for the human being. Death is the process by which this consciousness transitions from one vehicle to another (or maybe to none) when its temporary purpose in a realm of existence is served. I personally don't fear death but the effect it would have emotionally for my loved ones. Financially they will be OK What?? You really need to move from that thinking. People always move on no matter how important mwendazake was. It's life. It will happen to all of us. I think the worst you could have done is not pass anything positive down in your lifetime and sadly most of our middle class will leave zero legacy, nothing worth remembering the person for.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Wakanyugi wrote:2012 wrote:It's the ultimate of all unknowns. That's why we fear it so much. On the same note, do you think animals fear death or pain when facing their predictors? Anyway, it looks like the fear of death has gone down from the many suicides we're seeing especially from well to do individuals in the entertainment industry around the world. I think it's 2 days ago when a known radio personality committed suicide bearly 2 months since another known entertainment event organizer committed. The greatest mystery, IMHO, is how a lump of otherwise inanimate matter becomes animated to become conscious and to serve as a vehicle for the human being. Death is the process by which this consciousness transitions from one vehicle to another (or maybe to none) when its temporary purpose in a realm of existence is served. RIP 
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