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BREAKING NEWS......Kadhis Courts are illegal
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Brewer
#91 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:15:30 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
You must respect Nanfor1 who appears to have read the ruling when all of us are relying on the 'breaking news'- personally in the daily nation website. The news is that certain Kenyans went to court with a grievance and some three judges agreed with them. The rest is in some 115 pages of a ruling ambayo tutapata tu.

Tutajisomea, tutajitafsiria, tutajiamulia, na kama kuna 'glaring errors' tutasema.

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nanfor1
#92 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:19:18 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/30/2009
Posts: 141
Mpenzi wrote:
The Constitutional Court had not legislated!! It has simply interpreted the Constitution and come to the conclusion that some of it's provisions are discriminatory. The court was very careful to state that it has no
powers to amend the Constitution however bad it might be - that it is up to Kenyans to do that if they so wish.


Mpenzi can you please be clear.

Did this court interpret the constitution?

By so doing did it set precedent?

Is one of these precedent that it has found a clause illlegal?

by saying that one religion is being promoted ahead of others, does it mean that CRE should be banned in schools and catholic University should be banned too?

Please, lets be clear. This was an ill timed and unprecedented ruling. That is why you see nearly all lawyers in shock! For once lawyers are in agreement.

while people are busy celebrating the unheralded death of Kadhis courts, this ruling effectively means the death of all mission hospitals and christian colleges. Their mere presence is discriminating against me.
Hata wakizima taa
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mkenyan
#93 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:19:19 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
nanfor1 wrote:
mkenyan

what scares me more is a bunch of fake christians going around beaming with glee. These are the same games the judiciary used to play in Moi's era. To these fellows as long as there are no Kadhis courts, Kenya is the land of milk and honey.

Very dangerous fellows these religious nuts.


i think some will side with that just because it somehow furthers their cause and would not pause to question the substance and effects of the ruling.

good thing is that whatever the court will say on the proposed constitution, if it is subjected to a referendum and it becomes law then their view would be akin to declaring the wish of kenyans illegal.

still, lets see what the court of appeal will say about it.
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mkenyan
#94 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:22:32 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
Mpenzi wrote:
The Constitutional Court had not legislated!! It has simply interpreted the Constitution and come to the conclusion that some of it's provisions are discriminatory. The court was very careful to state that it has no
powers to amend the Constitution however bad it might be - that it is up to Kenyans to do that if they so wish.


good of them to state that they have no power to amend the constitution when in effect by declaring the section illegal they have for all intent and purposes purported to amend it.

otherwise what do you think is the result of this ruling in respect to the relevant sections?
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:27 PM | Reason: Edited for clarity
rupshi
#95 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:28:54 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/9/2007
Posts: 23
@ nanfor. CRE is not discriminatory, as there is also IRE and HRE (Islamic and Hindu) taught in schools. There are Mission Hospitals, and schools as there are Muslim run Hospitals and schools, and none of them are funded by the government. So how are they discriminatory???
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simonkabz
#96 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:32:55 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
I give up. A wonderful chance to have a new good constitution, many times better than what we already have, has possibly been ruined. Over 200 great clauses as 3 judges dwell on one; while one ignorant saddist shouts himself hoarse in this thread coz of 2 or 3 clauses he cant even xplain how bad they are....All I have are prayers 4 this country, n the success of the draft on aug. 4th. Mathukuma, alongside MO1, be happy now that your current (old) constitution is gaining ground on our proposed draft.....dishonest whining kenyans who still beleive in PERFECT......only in the dictionary!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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  | | Edit by user: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:44 PM | Reason: Not specified
famooz
#97 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:34:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
@ MASUKUMAApplause Applause Applause you have tirelessly argued your point- this could be make even those who thought the process had reached a point of NO return to realise there is need for dialogue.......who knows may be,just may be they will listen?
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mkenyan
#98 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:38:52 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
ibsi wrote:
We live in a world of plurality and for there to be tolerance, something which relates to religion should not be enshrined in a document which should be used by all people in the country. Our muslim brothers and sisters should also know that the circumstances which made the kadhi courts to be put in the constitution were different. By the way, the costal strip never belonged to Sultans. It belongs to indigenous black africans. These indigenous africans are now the poor at the cost and the colonial arabs are now pretending to be the indigenous.


the coastal strip sure never belonged to the sultans, just as kenya never belonged to the british. as well as other colonies. so why don't we just challenge the way african countries were partitioned in the first instance and do it afresh.

in fact the british never had the authority to 'grant' us independence in the first place.

you see where that one is going?
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mkenyan
#99 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 6:45:16 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,885
rupshi wrote:
@ nanfor. CRE is not discriminatory, as there is also IRE and HRE (Islamic and Hindu) taught in schools. There are Mission Hospitals, and schools as there are Muslim run Hospitals and schools, and none of them are funded by the government. So how are they discriminatory???


but where is the african religious studies? what of the jewish ones? what of the religion of those who do not believe in God? are students tested for there in the national exams?

why does the proposed constitution in its preamble state that:

'ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation....'

not every religion believe in God and remember according to our good judges there has to be equality for all even in the constitution.

the problem i have with this ruling is as nanfor has stated, it opens a can of worms - lay a precedent for the constitution itself to be challenged, powers which only kenyans have.
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kadonye
#100 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 7:14:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
mkenyan wrote:


on the religious inclinations of the judge, given that it is the churches that have been most vocal about the inclusion of the kadhi courts in proposed constitution, i do not really need to spell out for you the relevance.
It's not true that people with Christian names n Caucasian names are Christians.Read Philip Ochieng's article 'Thank God I'm atheist' n other articles
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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