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2017 PEV Orchestration
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Raila has manipulated/fooled people for too long, this time he is check-mated effectively - every unwholesome move he mulls he discovers that the force for good is a step ahead of him! Did someone here allude to a game of draft, but now this is chess. Raila is in the cross hairs of the UN over inciting chaosIsuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Ngalaka wrote:Raila has manipulated/fooled people for too long, this time he is check-mated effectively - every unwholesome move he mulls he discovers that the force for good is a step ahead of him! Did someone here allude to a game of draft, but now this is chess. Raila is in the cross hairs of the UN over inciting chaos Innocent until proven guilty. No proof has been given that indeed, Raila is lying or fooling anyone. When one is down, enemies and critics may take advantage and their biases taken for truth.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Problem with Naswa is public positions they have taken
Orngo - Court is not an option
Kalooser - We will call you to action at opportune time
Aliar - I won with 8.4Million votes
Aliar - IEBC Server compromised
Aliar - Body language so far expressed to supporters is that he will deal with the matter his own way, under his own terms...his way or the highway mantra
If they go to court, Orngo not happy eating humble pie. Supporters will realize aliar doesn't have the mystic powers he implied to possess. on other hand, they know they cant win in court. If they had better chance of winning in court in 2013, and didn't, how now?
In case they go for mass action - as baba would desire, to force nusu mkate, they are afraid of being slapped with VISA bans. MADVD, Kalooser, etal wouldn't want to hear anything of the sort.
In other words, after thinking, none can sustain any of the public positions they have taken recently and NASWA is between the proverbial rock and hard place. Why not just concede and life goes on?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/8/2013 Posts: 4,068 Location: At Large.
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tycho wrote:Ngalaka wrote:Raila has manipulated/fooled people for too long, this time he is check-mated effectively - every unwholesome move he mulls he discovers that the force for good is a step ahead of him! Did someone here allude to a game of draft, but now this is chess. Raila is in the cross hairs of the UN over inciting chaos Innocent until proven guilty. No proof has been given that indeed, Raila is lying or fooling anyone. When one is down, enemies and critics may take advantage and their biases taken for truth. Election results were announced based on Form 34A that was summed up to 34B.What was streamed electronically is immaterial for now.It was provisional. For me to believe Raila he needs to tell us 1.This are copies of form 34As from NASA agents. 2.This are copies of Form 34Bs from NASA agents. Spot the difference with those from IEBC KIEMs and hard copies. Let the NASA agents swear affidavits on what they are presenting.Lets us audit source of what is in KIEMS. Then and only then can we say Raila is not lying.For now based on his past record he is a serial liar. Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Bigchick wrote:tycho wrote:Ngalaka wrote:Raila has manipulated/fooled people for too long, this time he is check-mated effectively - every unwholesome move he mulls he discovers that the force for good is a step ahead of him! Did someone here allude to a game of draft, but now this is chess. Raila is in the cross hairs of the UN over inciting chaos Innocent until proven guilty. No proof has been given that indeed, Raila is lying or fooling anyone. When one is down, enemies and critics may take advantage and their biases taken for truth. Election results were announced based on Form 34A that was summed up to 34B.What was streamed electronically is immaterial for now.It was provisional. For me to believe Raila he needs to tell us 1.This are copies of form 34As from NASA agents. 2.This are copies of Form 34Bs from NASA agents. Spot the difference with those from IEBC KIEMs and hard copies. Let the NASA agents swear affidavits on what they are presenting.Lets us audit source of what is in KIEMS. Then and only then can we say Raila is not lying.For now based on his past record he is a serial liar. There have been indications that the NASA tallying scheme either malfunctioned or didn't exist, despite intentions for it to be there. If these indications are true, what caused the failure, and could this cause lead to elections being stolen? That is, what if there are no copies from NASA agents? Anyway, my point is that for us to start looking at any proof we may need to investigate the case without taking the bias of any allegations.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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[quote=limanika]Problem with Naswa is public positions they have taken . In other words, after thinking, none can sustain any of the public positions they have taken recently and NASWA is between the proverbial rock and hard place. Why not just concede and life goes on? [/quot Shhhhhh, there are people on this forum who when you say 'conceed',they say 'police violence'So weka hii conceed chini I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. While there's a potential for evil in everyone, there's also potential for good in all of us. So it may be unhelpful to push a guilt tripping agenda on us...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... I am happy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/25/2011 Posts: 2,103 Location: Nrb
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tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case? Why would the state be interested in pursuing it? Unless you say IEBC as an independent body to pursue it in order for IEBC to satisfy it conducted a free and fair poll. The state cannot compell ODM (I insist it's an ODM affair),they said they will not go court,I doubt they would go to court even if compelled by law. So we will be subjected to chasing the wind inorder to ascertain the obvious -that they lost bigly @Tycho,believe me,if these geezers had evidence,they would not subjecting Kenyans to "big announcements",they would be in court I am happy
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. What is happening to you boss. Why would anyone celebrate the death of a kid? It's dangerous what politics does to us honestly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. It's very unfortunate that you bring the baby's name into this. Did the baby vote? But if you want to know who's sipping champagne, just look for who is capitalizing the most out of this sad situation. But you should urge your friends to keep peace even Mdvd today said the matter is too complex for NASA to comprehend so I don't get how a kawaida mwananchi understands it so well to go and face GSU on the streets.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:Amores wrote:tycho wrote:All or most behavior has sufficient explanation, regardless as to whether the behavior is moral or immoral. So even if Raila is lying or cooking up issues, there must be a sufficient explanation for his behavior, and this behavior can be backed up by evidence from his own and NASA's actions.
Why would we prefer to talk and talk and castigate instead of investigating and proving in a competent and efficient manner?
In my opinion the costs of not doing so far outweigh the benefits of a questionable legitimacy. So why won't he go to court and present the evidence?In my opinion,ODM can help shed light,as long as they run away from the court process,we will conclude they are just theatrics. How can it be investigated based on rumors and fake news? Whatever reasons ODM or NASA may have for not going to court, the state has the means and obligation to take up the case, follow up with investigations and offer direction. Sticking to the opinion that the victims ought to go to court and present evidence is creating an unneeded sense of being besieged. And that's counter productive. Really? Ok.... Yes. Really. In the first place why does the state take up criminal cases? If NASA lodges a petition in court, what kind of case would it institute? How would the judicial system respond? And how different would it be if the courts compelled NASA to give evidence in the pursuit of a criminal investigation/case? Why would the state be interested in pursuing it? Unless you say IEBC as an independent body to pursue it in order for IEBC to satisfy it conducted a free and fair poll. The state cannot compell ODM (I insist it's an ODM affair),they said they will not go court,I doubt they would go to court even if compelled by law. So we will be subjected to chasing the wind inorder to ascertain the obvious -that they lost bigly @Tycho,believe me,if these geezers had evidence,they would not subjecting Kenyans to "big announcements",they would be in court 1. The state would be interested if the facts of the case point to criminal offense(s) 2. We've already shown the possibility of a reasonable case lacking evidence and calling for investigations 3. There are many cases that fail to go to court even with evidence - eg. when faith in judicial processes are in doubt 4. In the course of a criminal case/investigation witnesses can be compelled to testify This is a national security issue and I believe the state will have more to lose if it loses control and fails to convince the citizenry of its fairness and capacities for fairness.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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The idea of a 'police investigation' appears good. But remember NASA principal one already implicated them in the 'vote stealing plot'. Imported investigators and 'judges' may be required. Timelines in the constitution do not favour this route either. What to do? I care!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 1,049
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washiku wrote:FRM2011 wrote:Baby pendo is no more.
I know this will bring joy to a good number of wazuans.
Feel free to pop the champagne. What is happening to you boss. Why would anyone celebrate the death of a kid? It's dangerous what politics does to us honestly. He's lost it completely! Doing all else but challenging the one who holds the key to stop all these unnecessary confrontations which inevitably result in deaths and injuries. Tomorrow the "revered enigma" will probably call for another round of confrontations knowing all too well that it will likely result in some deaths and injuries. Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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thuks wrote:The idea of a 'police investigation' appears good. But remember NASA principal one already implicated them in the 'vote stealing plot'. Imported investigators and 'judges' may be required. Timelines in the constitution do not favour this route either. What to do? 1. The standards of proof are not so difficult to understand and implement 2. NASA allegations against the investigating body need to be counteracted if at all citizens are to retain confidence in our institutions 3. The constitution of the investigating body may be of such a nature that NASA interests are well taken care of So we don't have to struggle with time lines if there's goodwill from all sides.
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