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2017 PEV Orchestration
Nandwa
#61 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 8:02:02 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
Redcross decries fakenews. Denies body bags story, denies giving a tally of dead bodies, etcetera.
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
Amores
#62 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 10:23:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

The banality of evil

I recommend the above book for @Angelica and @obi. They are still shocked that fellow wazuans whom they have always regarded highly have lumped them together with the troublesome Luos who are giving Uhuru a hard time to govern. As such, the violence meted on them (Luos) is because their leader has refused to concede. Had Raila conceded, the poor policeman in Kisumu would not have been forced to clobber 6-month old pendo.

When Adolf Eichmann was snatched by an elite team of Mossad from a street in Argentina and taken to Israel to face trial, many people were scared of looking directly to his eyes. He was the closest one would get to the devil. Here was the man tasked with executing the "final solution" of finishing off the jews.

Top universities in the world sent their best professors and psychologists to understand the mind of a psychopathic monster. What they found was shocking.....

"These psychologists found not only no trace of mental illness, but also no evidence of abnormal personality whatsoever. One doctor remarked that his overall attitude towards other people, especially his family and friends, was "highly desirable", while another remarked that the only unusual trait Eichmann displayed was being more "normal" in his habits and speech than the average person "

And thus the emergence of the phrase banality of evil.

"Evil deeds are, for the most part, not perpetrated by monsters or sadists. Most often, they are perpetrated by seemingly ordinary people like Adolf Eichmann, who value conformity and narrow self-interest over the welfare of others "

Psychologists observed the same when dealing with the Rwandese genocide perpetrators. I was fascinated by the actions of the three top women;

1. Pauline Nyiramasuhuko - Min of Family Affairs and Women’s Development
2. Agnes Ntamabyariro - Minister of Justice
3. Sister Gertrude Mukangango and Sister Julienne Kizito of the Sovu Monastery.

All educated and well traveled but for two months between April and June 1994, oversaw unspeakable atrocities on fellow women.

Felicitee` Semakuba deserves special mention. She was pregnant during the genocide but her sadism shocked even the judges. In one instance, her victims were too many she would kill hundreds of them with bullets and grenades until she got exhausted. She could go back home and come again the following morning to continue. It lasted three days.

Psychologists confirmed she had no mental illness. She was an average person. Incentivized by the genocide. There is a latent Nazi or interhamwe in each one of us.

Any observant Wazuan would have noted this by now.


@FRM2011 I don't think its that bad here, I am just a bit surprised by some here. Now, I didn't challenge other peoples passions for supporting their preferred candidates before elections, that was understandable, but the open hatred after winning honestly surprised me.

Now I interact with Kenyans from various backgrounds and I have to be honest and say that politics when discussed is generally subdued when the group has people with an opposing views, I am therefore struggling to picture any of my friends or acquaintances who I can liken to some here. Many after the results started trickling in simply accepted them as they were, filtered out the political noise and reverted to more relevant topics. No hard feelings, no taunting etc.

Wazua seems to be stuck on the election timewarp. Must be differing circles



While I do not judge what has been written by @FRM, find the analogy incongruent.

Dare I say that it is also odd to continue to point child who was hurt in police brutality,but failing to accept that by Raila refusing to concede, he is fueling unnecessary tension in the country, and to be specific is Kisumu and few parts of the city? Can you imagine what would have happened if people had headed to their subtle call to violence?

As for the reaction of people here on Wazua, @ Obi, what exactly are you referring to? Did anyone say something out of the general confines of civility, in their bid to celebrate their deserved win, while at the same time,questioning why RAO and Orengo have refused to accept a loss?
I am honestly interested to know.
I am happy
FRM2011
#63 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 10:48:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
[quote=FRM2011]


@FRM2011 I don't think its that bad here, I am just a bit surprised by some here. Now, I didn't challenge other peoples passions for supporting their preferred candidates before elections, that was understandable, but the open hatred after winning honestly surprised me.

Now I interact with Kenyans from various backgrounds and I have to be honest and say that politics when discussed is generally subdued when the group has people with an opposing views, I am therefore struggling to picture any of my friends or acquaintances who I can liken to some here. Many after the results started trickling in simply accepted them as they were, filtered out the political noise and reverted to more relevant topics. No hard feelings, no taunting etc.

Wazua seems to be stuck on the election timewarp. Must be differing circles



Actually @Obi, the banality of evil theory tells us that there are no monsters who will come to commit horrendous crimes. They are ordinary people.

The first victim in the ICC trial identified the man who snatched her own baby from her arms and threw the baby back to the burning church in Kiambaa. He was not a psychopathic monster. Just an ordinary guy. He was later elected as an MCA.

We have so much hatred now and yet the only crime is that Rao has not yet conceded. What if we up the ante a little bit hypothetically. What would the situation be if ,God forbid, some NASA supporters did something stupid that resulted in fatalities ? The hatred on this forum would almost certainly boil over and find expression in actual real violence.

Again I repeat, there is a latent Nazi in all of us. What scares me, is that the posts on this forum are telling me some of us are so ominously close to the surface.
Bigchick
#64 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:10:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
Yesterday the followers of Babu heed his call not to go to work and stay indoors.No goon went to the streets nor baricaded roads nor disrupted business nor threw stones.

24 hours later I have not heard from real or fake news of any police lobbing tear gas at anybody nor flushing out people from their abodes nor firing live bullets or unfortunate kids being harmed in the process.

@FROM2011 and Co that is how things should be.Protest peacefully and do not interfere with other peoples lifes.
Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
hardwood
#65 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:20:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
FRM2011 wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
[quote=FRM2011]


@FRM2011 I don't think its that bad here, I am just a bit surprised by some here. Now, I didn't challenge other peoples passions for supporting their preferred candidates before elections, that was understandable, but the open hatred after winning honestly surprised me.

Now I interact with Kenyans from various backgrounds and I have to be honest and say that politics when discussed is generally subdued when the group has people with an opposing views, I am therefore struggling to picture any of my friends or acquaintances who I can liken to some here. Many after the results started trickling in simply accepted them as they were, filtered out the political noise and reverted to more relevant topics. No hard feelings, no taunting etc.

Wazua seems to be stuck on the election timewarp. Must be differing circles



Actually @Obi, the banality of evil theory tells us that there are no monsters who will come to commit horrendous crimes. They are ordinary people.

The first victim in the ICC trial identified the man who snatched her own baby from her arms and threw the baby back to the burning church in Kiambaa. He was not a psychopathic monster. Just an ordinary guy. He was later elected as an MCA.

We have so much hatred now and yet the only crime is that Rao has not yet conceded. What if we up the ante a little bit hypothetically. What would the situation be if ,God forbid, some NASA supporters did something stupid that resulted in fatalities ? The hatred on this forum would almost certainly boil over and find expression in actual real violence.

Again I repeat, there is a latent Nazi in all of us. What scares me, is that the posts on this forum are telling me some of us are so ominously close to the surface.


Wacheni upusi. Sasa winners are not allowed to celebrate because they will offend the losers? Winners should be allowed to enjoy their victory. Hata Gor mahia fans normally match to town and paint the town green as they celebrate their win....and harass a few people and motorists. And its acceptable because we understand the excitement of winning. Infact the new nairobi governor Sonko should organise a major procession through nairobi and latter the mother of all rallies at Uhuru park to celebrate the win.
hardwood
#66 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:36:46 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
FRM2011 wrote:

We have so much hatred now and yet the only crime is that Rao has not yet conceded.


Who cares whether he concedes or not. There were 8 presidential candidates and all losers have conceded except only one. Are we expected to go beg him to stop throwing tantrums? Kwani yeye ni nani?
Obi 1 Kanobi
#67 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:40:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Amores wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

The banality of evil

I recommend the above book for @Angelica and @obi. They are still shocked that fellow wazuans whom they have always regarded highly have lumped them together with the troublesome Luos who are giving Uhuru a hard time to govern. As such, the violence meted on them (Luos) is because their leader has refused to concede. Had Raila conceded, the poor policeman in Kisumu would not have been forced to clobber 6-month old pendo.

When Adolf Eichmann was snatched by an elite team of Mossad from a street in Argentina and taken to Israel to face trial, many people were scared of looking directly to his eyes. He was the closest one would get to the devil. Here was the man tasked with executing the "final solution" of finishing off the jews.

Top universities in the world sent their best professors and psychologists to understand the mind of a psychopathic monster. What they found was shocking.....

"These psychologists found not only no trace of mental illness, but also no evidence of abnormal personality whatsoever. One doctor remarked that his overall attitude towards other people, especially his family and friends, was "highly desirable", while another remarked that the only unusual trait Eichmann displayed was being more "normal" in his habits and speech than the average person "

And thus the emergence of the phrase banality of evil.

"Evil deeds are, for the most part, not perpetrated by monsters or sadists. Most often, they are perpetrated by seemingly ordinary people like Adolf Eichmann, who value conformity and narrow self-interest over the welfare of others "

Psychologists observed the same when dealing with the Rwandese genocide perpetrators. I was fascinated by the actions of the three top women;

1. Pauline Nyiramasuhuko - Min of Family Affairs and Women’s Development
2. Agnes Ntamabyariro - Minister of Justice
3. Sister Gertrude Mukangango and Sister Julienne Kizito of the Sovu Monastery.

All educated and well traveled but for two months between April and June 1994, oversaw unspeakable atrocities on fellow women.

Felicitee` Semakuba deserves special mention. She was pregnant during the genocide but her sadism shocked even the judges. In one instance, her victims were too many she would kill hundreds of them with bullets and grenades until she got exhausted. She could go back home and come again the following morning to continue. It lasted three days.

Psychologists confirmed she had no mental illness. She was an average person. Incentivized by the genocide. There is a latent Nazi or interhamwe in each one of us.

Any observant Wazuan would have noted this by now.


@FRM2011 I don't think its that bad here, I am just a bit surprised by some here. Now, I didn't challenge other peoples passions for supporting their preferred candidates before elections, that was understandable, but the open hatred after winning honestly surprised me.

Now I interact with Kenyans from various backgrounds and I have to be honest and say that politics when discussed is generally subdued when the group has people with an opposing views, I am therefore struggling to picture any of my friends or acquaintances who I can liken to some here. Many after the results started trickling in simply accepted them as they were, filtered out the political noise and reverted to more relevant topics. No hard feelings, no taunting etc.

Wazua seems to be stuck on the election timewarp. Must be differing circles



While I do not judge what has been written by @FRM, find the analogy incongruent.

Dare I say that it is also odd to continue to point child who was hurt in police brutality,but failing to accept that by Raila refusing to concede, he is fueling unnecessary tension in the country, and to be specific is Kisumu and few parts of the city? Can you imagine what would have happened if people had headed to their subtle call to violence?

As for the reaction of people here on Wazua, @ Obi, what exactly are you referring to? Did anyone say something out of the general confines of civility, in their bid to celebrate their deserved win, while at the same time,questioning why RAO and Orengo have refused to accept a loss?
I am honestly interested to know.

Use of live ammunition on an armed civilians is wrong, unfortunately this may happen. When it happens, it should be condemned regardless.

My problem is that some here are trying to justify the use of live ammunition against civilians.

Today's paper has two families mourning their dead as a result of police use of live ammunition, 1 in Homabay and the other in Kawangware, 1 a Luo and the other a Kikuyu. As I said, bullets don't choose tribe, they kill all, Luo's, Kikuyu's, 6 months old infants, little girls playing.

Lets stop justifying their use. Police can employ them to protect themselves, and that's it.

The state has not hanged Killers, violent robbers, Gangsters since after the coup plotters in the 80's. This is even after the killers are sentenced to death by a court of law, why then is it ok for a cop to shoot all in the name of protecting peace.

P.S. I am pro death penalty.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Nandwa
#68 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:49:37 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049
FRM2011 wrote:
Nandwa wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
newfarer wrote:
Why can't Rao try his push parliament if Jubilee is ready to support? Haki sielewi


Am hoping he does. Doubt whether he would want to be seen as the stumbling block.

It's important to diffuse the ethnic tensions. The cordomite's online gang baptized today's matatu protest as #mungikidemos and pushed it until it was trending.

Ahem, are you still willing to stand by your view!
What I just observed in a post above gets a perfect example here - that a RAO supporter would have to keep making excuses for him!



Ahem might you have spoken too soon bro ? But I understand. Goggles. Btw I have been team PK from 2013. So unlike you I wear no goggles. We are the moderates who have no time for the thieves and tribalists on either side of the divide. Luckily, our numbers are swelling.

Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
Amores
#69 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:53:01 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/25/2011
Posts: 2,103
Location: Nrb
@Obi, understand your point now, it is linked to the police use of force, which I agree that it is disturbing to see people being flushed out of their houses.
However, I will still ask you, do you think it is responsible of Raila to refuse to concede? Do you think the argument that he has contributed to this violence is correct?
I am happy
hardwood
#70 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:59:24 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Amores wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:

The banality of evil

I recommend the above book for @Angelica and @obi. They are still shocked that fellow wazuans whom they have always regarded highly have lumped them together with the troublesome Luos who are giving Uhuru a hard time to govern. As such, the violence meted on them (Luos) is because their leader has refused to concede. Had Raila conceded, the poor policeman in Kisumu would not have been forced to clobber 6-month old pendo.

When Adolf Eichmann was snatched by an elite team of Mossad from a street in Argentina and taken to Israel to face trial, many people were scared of looking directly to his eyes. He was the closest one would get to the devil. Here was the man tasked with executing the "final solution" of finishing off the jews.

Top universities in the world sent their best professors and psychologists to understand the mind of a psychopathic monster. What they found was shocking.....

"These psychologists found not only no trace of mental illness, but also no evidence of abnormal personality whatsoever. One doctor remarked that his overall attitude towards other people, especially his family and friends, was "highly desirable", while another remarked that the only unusual trait Eichmann displayed was being more "normal" in his habits and speech than the average person "

And thus the emergence of the phrase banality of evil.

"Evil deeds are, for the most part, not perpetrated by monsters or sadists. Most often, they are perpetrated by seemingly ordinary people like Adolf Eichmann, who value conformity and narrow self-interest over the welfare of others "

Psychologists observed the same when dealing with the Rwandese genocide perpetrators. I was fascinated by the actions of the three top women;

1. Pauline Nyiramasuhuko - Min of Family Affairs and Women’s Development
2. Agnes Ntamabyariro - Minister of Justice
3. Sister Gertrude Mukangango and Sister Julienne Kizito of the Sovu Monastery.

All educated and well traveled but for two months between April and June 1994, oversaw unspeakable atrocities on fellow women.

Felicitee` Semakuba deserves special mention. She was pregnant during the genocide but her sadism shocked even the judges. In one instance, her victims were too many she would kill hundreds of them with bullets and grenades until she got exhausted. She could go back home and come again the following morning to continue. It lasted three days.

Psychologists confirmed she had no mental illness. She was an average person. Incentivized by the genocide. There is a latent Nazi or interhamwe in each one of us.

Any observant Wazuan would have noted this by now.


@FRM2011 I don't think its that bad here, I am just a bit surprised by some here. Now, I didn't challenge other peoples passions for supporting their preferred candidates before elections, that was understandable, but the open hatred after winning honestly surprised me.

Now I interact with Kenyans from various backgrounds and I have to be honest and say that politics when discussed is generally subdued when the group has people with an opposing views, I am therefore struggling to picture any of my friends or acquaintances who I can liken to some here. Many after the results started trickling in simply accepted them as they were, filtered out the political noise and reverted to more relevant topics. No hard feelings, no taunting etc.

Wazua seems to be stuck on the election timewarp. Must be differing circles



While I do not judge what has been written by @FRM, find the analogy incongruent.

Dare I say that it is also odd to continue to point child who was hurt in police brutality,but failing to accept that by Raila refusing to concede, he is fueling unnecessary tension in the country, and to be specific is Kisumu and few parts of the city? Can you imagine what would have happened if people had headed to their subtle call to violence?

As for the reaction of people here on Wazua, @ Obi, what exactly are you referring to? Did anyone say something out of the general confines of civility, in their bid to celebrate their deserved win, while at the same time,questioning why RAO and Orengo have refused to accept a loss?
I am honestly interested to know.

Use of live ammunition on an armed civilians is wrong, unfortunately this may happen. When it happens, it should be condemned regardless.

My problem is that some here are trying to justify the use of live ammunition against civilians.

Today's paper has two families mourning their dead as a result of police use of live ammunition, 1 in Homabay and the other in Kawangware, 1 a Luo and the other a Kikuyu. As I said, bullets don't choose tribe, they kill all, Luo's, Kikuyu's, 6 months old infants, little girls playing.

Lets stop justifying their use. Police can employ them to protect themselves, and that's it.

The state has not hanged Killers, violent robbers, Gangsters since after the coup plotters in the 80's. This is even after the killers are sentenced to death by a court of law, why then is it ok for a cop to shoot all in the name of protecting peace.

P.S. I am pro death penalty.


How are police supposed to handle such a situation. Mnataka polis wafanye nini?

http://edition.cnn.com/2...ons-protests/index.html








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