Wazua
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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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Interesting that there are still buyers at this time HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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On a day like this next week HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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Look at the kind of business I&M was doing with the Pride of Africa http://www.businessdaily...039986-ibk77b/index.html HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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[quote=obiero]Look at the kind of business I&M was doing with the Pride of Africa http://www.businessdaily...39986-ibk77b/index.html[/quote] @VVS will answer you shortly. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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obiero wrote:All businesses have challenges, more so in our aviation industry, which is cyclical in nature and fraught with many risks. These include fuel price volatility, intense competition and more recently the threat of terrorism and epidemics that have adversely impacted global travel. There is also political instability, natural disasters and an increasingly tight regulatory environment and KQ is not isolated from any of these. KQ has expanded its global footprint across multiple jurisdictions flying to 52 destinations. As a global airline, we are governed by stringent international aviation rules that we must adhere to. Strong consumer activism in some markets like the European Union (EU) has imposed high costs of operations in cases of schedule interruptions. But it has not always been doom and gloom. Over the last decade, Kenya Airways worked hard to successfully shed the image of an ailing airline dependent on government lifeline. Since it was privatised in the late 1990s, the airline grew rapidly, lifted by strong fundamentals and embracing a culture of competitiveness and innovation. Before the current spate of challenges, KQ was one of the most profitable airlines even earning the ‘Most Respected Company in East Africa’ accolade. Are we in debt? Yes we are. Is this normal for airlines? Most certainly. The question is one of balance for both long term and short term debt. Long term debt is the norm for financing asset acquisition together with equity. In the short term, we are experiencing a tight liquidity position driven by our business environment. Were we too ambitious in our plans? Only time will tell. KQ from 2002 to 2011 grew from a turnover of Sh25 billion to over Sh100 billion, in the same period. It only made a loss in 2009. Against this backdrop, the Board embarked on a second phase of growth and renewal with mixed results thus far. Operationally, we have seen significant improvements over the last two years both in on time performance and service. In the last month though, we have had significant disruptions to our schedule integrity which has regrettably impacted our loyal customers for two reasons. Firstly, the change of schedule due to the runway closure and attendant internal adjustments we have had to make. Secondly, we have had labour relations issues with some of our pilot community which in some instances has led to last minute flight cancellations or delays. So, whereas KQ may today be grappling with challenges, what is important is that we stay focused in delivering on the wider promise. What matters most is the measures instituted to put the business on a recovery path and ultimately on a sound footing. The pilots will kill KQ.. 5 days to the EGM HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Obiero, Obiero, Obiero: Unless you have kendo - 100M shares in this monkey, you'd best be advised to dump it and move on. But we know that the largest individual shareholder, one Mike Maina Kamau has 41M - is that you?
We've all burned fingers at one time or another - remember Olympia Capital?
No point campaigning for a worthless company. Time to dump and move on!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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chiaroscuro wrote:Obiero, Obiero, Obiero: Unless you have kendo - 100M shares in this monkey, you'd best be advised to dump it and move on. But we know that the largest individual shareholder, one Mike Maina Kamau has 41M - is that you?
We've all burned fingers at one time or another - remember Olympia Capital?
No point campaigning for a worthless company. Time to dump and move on! I'm not Mike bwana. Wacha madharau. I have lost on some trades too. But hii ikianguka naenda nayo kamikaze hadi ndani ya Indian Ocean. Ndaani Ndaani, Ndaani kabisa HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/20/2015 Posts: 2,811 Location: Mombasa
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obiero wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Obiero, Obiero, Obiero: Unless you have kendo - 100M shares in this monkey, you'd best be advised to dump it and move on. But we know that the largest individual shareholder, one Mike Maina Kamau has 41M - is that you?
We've all burned fingers at one time or another - remember Olympia Capital?
No point campaigning for a worthless company. Time to dump and move on! I'm not Mike bwana. Wacha madharau. I have lost on some trades too. But hii ikianguka naenda nayo kamikaze hadi ndani ya Indian Ocean. Ndaani Ndaani, Ndaani kabisa Your portfolio will remain tattered for long-term....Dump and run! John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Obiero, Obiero, Obiero: Unless you have kendo - 100M shares in this monkey, you'd best be advised to dump it and move on. But we know that the largest individual shareholder, one Mike Maina Kamau has 41M - is that you?
We've all burned fingers at one time or another - remember Olympia Capital?
No point campaigning for a worthless company. Time to dump and move on! I'm not Mike bwana. Wacha madharau. I have lost on some trades too. But hii ikianguka naenda nayo kamikaze hadi ndani ya Indian Ocean. Ndaani Ndaani, Ndaani kabisa Investing on emotional appeal. Not wise, my friend.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:obiero wrote:All businesses have challenges, more so in our aviation industry, which is cyclical in nature and fraught with many risks. These include fuel price volatility, intense competition and more recently the threat of terrorism and epidemics that have adversely impacted global travel. There is also political instability, natural disasters and an increasingly tight regulatory environment and KQ is not isolated from any of these. KQ has expanded its global footprint across multiple jurisdictions flying to 52 destinations. As a global airline, we are governed by stringent international aviation rules that we must adhere to. Strong consumer activism in some markets like the European Union (EU) has imposed high costs of operations in cases of schedule interruptions. But it has not always been doom and gloom. Over the last decade, Kenya Airways worked hard to successfully shed the image of an ailing airline dependent on government lifeline. Since it was privatised in the late 1990s, the airline grew rapidly, lifted by strong fundamentals and embracing a culture of competitiveness and innovation. Before the current spate of challenges, KQ was one of the most profitable airlines even earning the ‘Most Respected Company in East Africa’ accolade. Are we in debt? Yes we are. Is this normal for airlines? Most certainly. The question is one of balance for both long term and short term debt. Long term debt is the norm for financing asset acquisition together with equity. In the short term, we are experiencing a tight liquidity position driven by our business environment. Were we too ambitious in our plans? Only time will tell. KQ from 2002 to 2011 grew from a turnover of Sh25 billion to over Sh100 billion, in the same period. It only made a loss in 2009. Against this backdrop, the Board embarked on a second phase of growth and renewal with mixed results thus far. Operationally, we have seen significant improvements over the last two years both in on time performance and service. In the last month though, we have had significant disruptions to our schedule integrity which has regrettably impacted our loyal customers for two reasons. Firstly, the change of schedule due to the runway closure and attendant internal adjustments we have had to make. Secondly, we have had labour relations issues with some of our pilot community which in some instances has led to last minute flight cancellations or delays. So, whereas KQ may today be grappling with challenges, what is important is that we stay focused in delivering on the wider promise. What matters most is the measures instituted to put the business on a recovery path and ultimately on a sound footing. The pilots will kill KQ.. 5 days to the EGM This matter should be sorted out once and for all if not the pilots will do it again and again...The interesting bit is its just a section of them others reported to work as normal and others did extra hours...It's a clique. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,077 Location: Nairobi
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[quote=obiero] Look at the kind of business I&M was doing with the Pride of Africa http://www.businessdaily...39986-ibk77b/index.html[/quote] Very disappointing move by I&M. Why lend to a useless firm run by incompetent crooks, charlatans and incompetents in the first place? And then charge below-market rates? [I hope they fired the idiots who made this loan] The only saving grace is the amount lent i.e. 824mn is small change for I&M i.e. they can NPL/provide the entire amount in one quarter. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=obiero] Look at the kind of business I&M was doing with the Pride of Africa http://www.businessdaily...39986-ibk77b/index.html[/quote] Very disappointing move by I&M. Why lend to a useless firm run by incompetent crooks, charlatans and incompetents in the first place? And then charge below-market rates? [I hope they fired the idiots who made this loan] The only saving grace is the amount lent i.e. 824mn is small change for I&M i.e. they can NPL/provide the entire amount in one quarter. Not with the recent purchase of Giro.. Hawa watu hawana pesa na pia akili ni nadra HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2016 Posts: 225
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maka wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:All businesses have challenges, more so in our aviation industry, which is cyclical in nature and fraught with many risks. These include fuel price volatility, intense competition and more recently the threat of terrorism and epidemics that have adversely impacted global travel. There is also political instability, natural disasters and an increasingly tight regulatory environment and KQ is not isolated from any of these. KQ has expanded its global footprint across multiple jurisdictions flying to 52 destinations. As a global airline, we are governed by stringent international aviation rules that we must adhere to. Strong consumer activism in some markets like the European Union (EU) has imposed high costs of operations in cases of schedule interruptions. But it has not always been doom and gloom. Over the last decade, Kenya Airways worked hard to successfully shed the image of an ailing airline dependent on government lifeline. Since it was privatised in the late 1990s, the airline grew rapidly, lifted by strong fundamentals and embracing a culture of competitiveness and innovation. Before the current spate of challenges, KQ was one of the most profitable airlines even earning the ‘Most Respected Company in East Africa’ accolade. Are we in debt? Yes we are. Is this normal for airlines? Most certainly. The question is one of balance for both long term and short term debt. Long term debt is the norm for financing asset acquisition together with equity. In the short term, we are experiencing a tight liquidity position driven by our business environment. Were we too ambitious in our plans? Only time will tell. KQ from 2002 to 2011 grew from a turnover of Sh25 billion to over Sh100 billion, in the same period. It only made a loss in 2009. Against this backdrop, the Board embarked on a second phase of growth and renewal with mixed results thus far. Operationally, we have seen significant improvements over the last two years both in on time performance and service. In the last month though, we have had significant disruptions to our schedule integrity which has regrettably impacted our loyal customers for two reasons. Firstly, the change of schedule due to the runway closure and attendant internal adjustments we have had to make. Secondly, we have had labour relations issues with some of our pilot community which in some instances has led to last minute flight cancellations or delays. So, whereas KQ may today be grappling with challenges, what is important is that we stay focused in delivering on the wider promise. What matters most is the measures instituted to put the business on a recovery path and ultimately on a sound footing. The pilots will kill KQ.. 5 days to the EGM This matter should be sorted out once and for all if not the pilots will do it again and again...The interedting bit is just a section of them others reported to work as normal and others did extra hours...It's a clique. Why can't they fire them, ground the airline for let's say 1 month and hire afresh Reflection Eternal
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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Flo-ology wrote:maka wrote:obiero wrote:obiero wrote:All businesses have challenges, more so in our aviation industry, which is cyclical in nature and fraught with many risks. These include fuel price volatility, intense competition and more recently the threat of terrorism and epidemics that have adversely impacted global travel. There is also political instability, natural disasters and an increasingly tight regulatory environment and KQ is not isolated from any of these. KQ has expanded its global footprint across multiple jurisdictions flying to 52 destinations. As a global airline, we are governed by stringent international aviation rules that we must adhere to. Strong consumer activism in some markets like the European Union (EU) has imposed high costs of operations in cases of schedule interruptions. But it has not always been doom and gloom. Over the last decade, Kenya Airways worked hard to successfully shed the image of an ailing airline dependent on government lifeline. Since it was privatised in the late 1990s, the airline grew rapidly, lifted by strong fundamentals and embracing a culture of competitiveness and innovation. Before the current spate of challenges, KQ was one of the most profitable airlines even earning the ‘Most Respected Company in East Africa’ accolade. Are we in debt? Yes we are. Is this normal for airlines? Most certainly. The question is one of balance for both long term and short term debt. Long term debt is the norm for financing asset acquisition together with equity. In the short term, we are experiencing a tight liquidity position driven by our business environment. Were we too ambitious in our plans? Only time will tell. KQ from 2002 to 2011 grew from a turnover of Sh25 billion to over Sh100 billion, in the same period. It only made a loss in 2009. Against this backdrop, the Board embarked on a second phase of growth and renewal with mixed results thus far. Operationally, we have seen significant improvements over the last two years both in on time performance and service. In the last month though, we have had significant disruptions to our schedule integrity which has regrettably impacted our loyal customers for two reasons. Firstly, the change of schedule due to the runway closure and attendant internal adjustments we have had to make. Secondly, we have had labour relations issues with some of our pilot community which in some instances has led to last minute flight cancellations or delays. So, whereas KQ may today be grappling with challenges, what is important is that we stay focused in delivering on the wider promise. What matters most is the measures instituted to put the business on a recovery path and ultimately on a sound footing. The pilots will kill KQ.. 5 days to the EGM This matter should be sorted out once and for all if not the pilots will do it again and again...The interedting bit is just a section of them others reported to work as normal and others did extra hours...It's a clique. Why can't they fire them, ground the airline for let's say 1 month and hire afresh Indeed. They could also be paid pro rated salary per trip. So, no shows without due cause leads to personal income loss HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,077 Location: Nairobi
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:[quote=obiero] Look at the kind of business I&M was doing with the Pride of Africa http://www.businessdaily...39986-ibk77b/index.html[/quote] Very disappointing move by I&M. Why lend to a useless firm run by incompetent crooks, charlatans and incompetents in the first place? And then charge below-market rates? [I hope they fired the idiots who made this loan] The only saving grace is the amount lent i.e. 824mn is small change for I&M i.e. they can NPL/provide the entire amount in one quarter. Not with the recent purchase of Giro.. Hawa watu hawana pesa na pia akili ni nadra I&M will be fine coz 824mn is small change. The loan to KQ ($ loan?) is already a dud and if not taken as a NPL, has to be taken by 4Q 2017 whether it is converted into shares or not. I&M did overpay for Giro considering the diminution in value (of banks) after the interest capping but the deal was signed 2 years ago. As for KQ, the banks may be forced, by GoK, to convert the loans into shares. I wonder what CBK will do as far as the NPLs are concerned. Anyway, if I had to choose between I&M and KQ at today's prices and knowing what we do... I will pick I&M coz there's more certainty about profitability and value. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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chiaroscuro wrote:obiero wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Obiero, Obiero, Obiero: Unless you have kendo - 100M shares in this monkey, you'd best be advised to dump it and move on. But we know that the largest individual shareholder, one Mike Maina Kamau has 41M - is that you?
We've all burned fingers at one time or another - remember Olympia Capital?
No point campaigning for a worthless company. Time to dump and move on! I'm not Mike bwana. Wacha madharau. I have lost on some trades too. But hii ikianguka naenda nayo kamikaze hadi ndani ya Indian Ocean. Ndaani Ndaani, Ndaani kabisa Investing on emotional appeal. Not wise, my friend. @Chiroscuro don't waste your time. @Obiero knows what is best for himself. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/21/2014 Posts: 184
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Cat falling to the ground at a very fast speed. There are too many opportunities all around. Open your eyes and maybe you'll spot one
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,077 Location: Nairobi
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As a "fundamental" investor, I do not understand why anyone would buy KQ shares at 4/- when the indications are that KQ will issue shares to the banks/GoK at around 2/-. What justifies the 2/-? At a 10 PER, KQ has to make KES 0.20 per share whereas (even with all the drama) many banks are selling at less than 10x PER when times are tough. By 2018, (most of the listed) banks will have "clean books" by taking the NPLs in 2017, adjusted to interest capping and increased their mobile (cheaper) banking footprint. I have no interest in KQ but 1) as a Taxpayer [shafting in progress] and 2) fascination with human/investor behavior. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,484 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:As a "fundamental" investor, I do not understand why anyone would buy KQ shares at 4/- when the indications are that KQ will issue shares to the banks/GoK at around 2/-.
What justifies the 2/-? At a 10 PER, KQ has to make KES 0.20 per share whereas (even with all the drama) many banks are selling at less than 10x PER when times are tough. By 2018, (most of the listed) banks will have "clean books" by taking the NPLs in 2017, adjusted to interest capping and increased their mobile (cheaper) banking footprint.
I have no interest in KQ but 1) as a Taxpayer [shafting in progress] and 2) fascination with human/investor behavior. The KES 2 is pre consolidation.. Expect a rally soon. Though I am also fascinated by the guys who are buying now. Very brave investors HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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