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Law Capping interest rates
Flo-ology
#2181 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 7:20:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2016
Posts: 225
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.
Reflection Eternal
obiero
#2182 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 7:39:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,503
Location: nairobi
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.

Those are very strong words to use on a governor who pioneered Mpesa introduction into the economy.. He had his flaws, but he is a professor and a sharp mind

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
winston
#2183 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 8:45:15 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
actuarywahisa wrote:
[quote=Ericsson]Yaani people have time to respond to tom_boy
All the best


What makes tom_boy mad? Ama you'll classify me as mad as well for asking that? Laughing out loudly

First, Economic theory is not a science!

Secondly, why shouldn't someone respond if they are willing and have the time? I though this is a discussion forum and knowledge sharing is the spirit of Wazua. Watch out not to fall from that horse. Drool

@tomboy raises valid but unrealistic points in Kenya's circumstances.. He must have lived abroad. Fact is that the economy started falling sick under 24 years plus of economic misrule, Mwai Kibaki took us out of the ICU and we were almost discharged, but then 2007 happened, we thus remained in the ward, but in the last four years we have ended up in the HDU.. Corruption and bad policy will ensure that very few citizens in Kenya will ever get to drive a brand new car.

Also note that land across the world is classified as an appreciating asset.. Indeed better use of the same should be encouraged but comparing land to maize simply leaves me speechless


The effects of hoarding land and hoarding maize are the same. Only difference is the time span to effect. If people hoard maize, the immediate effect is starvation.

When people hoard land, it leads to less access to a crucial factor of production, leads to less production, less jobs, less money to buy unga , eventually starvation.

@tomboy the speculative land is normally less than half an acre, barely sufficient for subsistence farming.. Mambo ya starvation tuulize Kulalu



Thats not true my fren. Tembea Kite na kwingineko. What typically happens is some guy buys 100acres from some maasai fellas. Subdivides it into quarters. Sells it to hundreds of kenyans. All these kenyans buy and hoard, hoping to sell later at 100x the buying price.

Now, some chinese fellow comes along. He wants 100 acres to farm commercially. Goes to kite and finds acres and acres of unoccupied land. Gets excited and tries to find out who the owner is only to discover its owned by hundreds of individuals. Gives up and goes back home.

Same story in Nakuru, Naivasha and their environs. We have also large land owners who are basically hoarding land. End effect, reduced investment.


Valid points Tom_boy. Let's hope this rate cap will streamline land sector. I hear most banks are no longer financing land buying

Tano tena? I told you that we will be finished http://www.businessdaily...212-124shyuz/index.html[/quote]

Economy continues to bleed...Sometimes we are aloof on other peoples plight (eg job losses)...until that very plight visits our door steps.
winston
#2184 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 8:50:19 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.



I think the truth remains the truth...irrespective of whether its being said by a 'fake/corrupt' professor or a 'genuine/uncorrupt' professor...The truth is the truth because it is the truth and not because of the deliverer of the message.
Flo-ology
#2185 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 9:40:24 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2016
Posts: 225
winston wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.



I think the truth remains the truth...irrespective of whether its being said by a 'fake/corrupt' professor or a 'genuine/uncorrupt' professor...The truth is the truth because it is the truth and not because of the deliverer of the message.


What the professor said is not true and because of this I had to add pointers to show his incompetency in his opinion on the rate cap.The banks have been taking advantage of vulnerable borrowers. Let those banks that are not willing to innovate continue suffering. Other banks are still lending to their customers
Reflection Eternal
tom_boy
#2186 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 11:02:15 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
[quote=ombaalbt]An indepth look at interest rate capping https://t.co/5pwgLb8tbL[/quote]

I like the parting shot. Banks should be allowed to price risk.

At this point...there are 3 possible outcomes:

1) status quo. capping remains
2) modified capping
3) abandonment of capping.

Ladies and gentlemen...kindly place your bets!

That was a well done article


Nicely done article. However, it is more theoretical than practical when it comes to how banking is actually conducted. I have never gone to a bank for a loan and been told to provide certain information about myself and my intended use of the money and then based on that info. they will get back to me with the interest rate they will offer me the loan at.

Certain individuals are also " risk free" in a sense but Kenyan banks categorise everyone as high risk.

Goverments are not necessarilly risk free as we are well aware. Thats why we have junk bonds.

So, "western economists" will always try to argue from many theoretical stand points about bank rate control. Bottom line, its all theory. None of those theoretical facts apply when the rubber meets the road, or when customer meets banker.

How come we did not get fuel shortage with fuel price control.

Why do banks insult our intelligence when they say they will happily lend to Wanjiku at 25% , but if we lend to her at 14%, she might default.

Banks are holding the country hostage on fake pretencious economic theories that they themselves do not apply. We need the next leader to have balls of steel, stare them in the face, revamp nbk and arm twist kcb and coop into lending at 14%. Then we see what the rest will do.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
tom_boy
#2187 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 11:12:13 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
winston wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.



I think the truth remains the truth...irrespective of whether its being said by a 'fake/corrupt' professor or a 'genuine/uncorrupt' professor...The truth is the truth because it is the truth and not because of the deliverer of the message.


Source of the truth is also key. How sure are we that Njuguna has not been paid by banksters to make appropriate noise. Integrity is key. He should also elucidate on the positive side of rate control if giving a balanced opinion. Newspapers may also be on banksters payroll to report all negative economic effects as being due to rate control. Why dont they also talk of corruption and billions wasted on govt largesse.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
mkeiy
#2188 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 12:42:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Flo-ology wrote:
winston wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.



I think the truth remains the truth...irrespective of whether its being said by a 'fake/corrupt' professor or a 'genuine/uncorrupt' professor...The truth is the truth because it is the truth and not because of the deliverer of the message.


What the professor said is not true and because of this I had to add pointers to show his incompetency in his opinion on the rate cap.The banks have been taking advantage of vulnerable borrowers. Let those banks that are not willing to innovate continue suffering. Other banks are still lending to their customers




@Flo-ology.

Your points are invalid.

The good professor was not even talking to Kenyans. He was addressing Ugandan bankers.

Has he also been corrupted by them?

This rate cap stinks.

More harm than good,making it bad.
obiero
#2189 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 1:12:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,503
Location: nairobi
winston wrote:
obiero wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
actuarywahisa wrote:
[quote=Ericsson]Yaani people have time to respond to tom_boy
All the best


What makes tom_boy mad? Ama you'll classify me as mad as well for asking that? Laughing out loudly

First, Economic theory is not a science!

Secondly, why shouldn't someone respond if they are willing and have the time? I though this is a discussion forum and knowledge sharing is the spirit of Wazua. Watch out not to fall from that horse. Drool

@tomboy raises valid but unrealistic points in Kenya's circumstances.. He must have lived abroad. Fact is that the economy started falling sick under 24 years plus of economic misrule, Mwai Kibaki took us out of the ICU and we were almost discharged, but then 2007 happened, we thus remained in the ward, but in the last four years we have ended up in the HDU.. Corruption and bad policy will ensure that very few citizens in Kenya will ever get to drive a brand new car.

Also note that land across the world is classified as an appreciating asset.. Indeed better use of the same should be encouraged but comparing land to maize simply leaves me speechless


The effects of hoarding land and hoarding maize are the same. Only difference is the time span to effect. If people hoard maize, the immediate effect is starvation.

When people hoard land, it leads to less access to a crucial factor of production, leads to less production, less jobs, less money to buy unga , eventually starvation.

@tomboy the speculative land is normally less than half an acre, barely sufficient for subsistence farming.. Mambo ya starvation tuulize Kulalu



Thats not true my fren. Tembea Kite na kwingineko. What typically happens is some guy buys 100acres from some maasai fellas. Subdivides it into quarters. Sells it to hundreds of kenyans. All these kenyans buy and hoard, hoping to sell later at 100x the buying price.

Now, some chinese fellow comes along. He wants 100 acres to farm commercially. Goes to kite and finds acres and acres of unoccupied land. Gets excited and tries to find out who the owner is only to discover its owned by hundreds of individuals. Gives up and goes back home.

Same story in Nakuru, Naivasha and their environs. We have also large land owners who are basically hoarding land. End effect, reduced investment.


Valid points Tom_boy. Let's hope this rate cap will streamline land sector. I hear most banks are no longer financing land buying

Tano tena? I told you that we will be finished http://www.businessdaily...212-124shyuz/index.html[/quote]

Economy continues to bleed...Sometimes we are aloof on other peoples plight (eg job losses)...until that very plight visits our door steps.

Haki ya Mungu..That's true

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
tom_boy
#2190 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 1:26:03 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
obiero wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
actuarywahisa wrote:
[quote=Ericsson]Yaani people have time to respond to tom_boy
All the best


What makes tom_boy mad? Ama you'll classify me as mad as well for asking that? Laughing out loudly

First, Economic theory is not a science!

Secondly, why shouldn't someone respond if they are willing and have the time? I though this is a discussion forum and knowledge sharing is the spirit of Wazua. Watch out not to fall from that horse. Drool

@tomboy raises valid but unrealistic points in Kenya's circumstances.. He must have lived abroad. Fact is that the economy started falling sick under 24 years plus of economic misrule, Mwai Kibaki took us out of the ICU and we were almost discharged, but then 2007 happened, we thus remained in the ward, but in the last four years we have ended up in the HDU.. Corruption and bad policy will ensure that very few citizens in Kenya will ever get to drive a brand new car.

Also note that land across the world is classified as an appreciating asset.. Indeed better use of the same should be encouraged but comparing land to maize simply leaves me speechless


The effects of hoarding land and hoarding maize are the same. Only difference is the time span to effect. If people hoard maize, the immediate effect is starvation.

When people hoard land, it leads to less access to a crucial factor of production, leads to less production, less jobs, less money to buy unga , eventually starvation.

@tomboy the speculative land is normally less than half an acre, barely sufficient for subsistence farming.. Mambo ya starvation tuulize Kulalu



Thats not true my fren. Tembea Kite na kwingineko. What typically happens is some guy buys 100acres from some maasai fellas. Subdivides it into quarters. Sells it to hundreds of kenyans. All these kenyans buy and hoard, hoping to sell later at 100x the buying price.

Now, some chinese fellow comes along. He wants 100 acres to farm commercially. Goes to kite and finds acres and acres of unoccupied land. Gets excited and tries to find out who the owner is only to discover its owned by hundreds of individuals. Gives up and goes back home.

Same story in Nakuru, Naivasha and their environs. We have also large land owners who are basically hoarding land. End effect, reduced investment.


Valid points Tom_boy. Let's hope this rate cap will streamline land sector. I hear most banks are no longer financing land buying

Tano tena? I told you that we will be finished http://www.businessdaily...212-124shyuz/index.html[/quote]

Economy continues to bleed...Sometimes we are aloof on other peoples plight (eg job losses)...until that very plight visits our door steps.

Haki ya Mungu..That's true


How come no one laments about the thousands who have been auctioned by banks, sometimes illegally, partly due to high interest rates that are hiked irregularly halfway through the loan term.

How about the thousands that took mortgages at 15% during kibaki error then found themselves paying 22% shortly after. Who will pay them back for lost income and depression they have suffered.

Point is, there are 2 sides to every coin. Lets not just focus on negatives of rate control and Yap about it all day. Rate control is a good tool to control our banks and hopefully channel capital where it will have maximum assured return. No more money for tenderpreneurs and cowboys wa kubahatisha biashara. Money should go to established businesses with ability to repay and secondly to individuals with clear ability to repay. Banks have been playing Russian roulette with us and we pick up the tab in high interest rates.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
mkeiy
#2191 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 2:15:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
obiero wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
actuarywahisa wrote:
[quote=Ericsson]Yaani people have time to respond to tom_boy
All the best


What makes tom_boy mad? Ama you'll classify me as mad as well for asking that? Laughing out loudly

First, Economic theory is not a science!

Secondly, why shouldn't someone respond if they are willing and have the time? I though this is a discussion forum and knowledge sharing is the spirit of Wazua. Watch out not to fall from that horse. Drool

@tomboy raises valid but unrealistic points in Kenya's circumstances.. He must have lived abroad. Fact is that the economy started falling sick under 24 years plus of economic misrule, Mwai Kibaki took us out of the ICU and we were almost discharged, but then 2007 happened, we thus remained in the ward, but in the last four years we have ended up in the HDU.. Corruption and bad policy will ensure that very few citizens in Kenya will ever get to drive a brand new car.

Also note that land across the world is classified as an appreciating asset.. Indeed better use of the same should be encouraged but comparing land to maize simply leaves me speechless


The effects of hoarding land and hoarding maize are the same. Only difference is the time span to effect. If people hoard maize, the immediate effect is starvation.

When people hoard land, it leads to less access to a crucial factor of production, leads to less production, less jobs, less money to buy unga , eventually starvation.

@tomboy the speculative land is normally less than half an acre, barely sufficient for subsistence farming.. Mambo ya starvation tuulize Kulalu



Thats not true my fren. Tembea Kite na kwingineko. What typically happens is some guy buys 100acres from some maasai fellas. Subdivides it into quarters. Sells it to hundreds of kenyans. All these kenyans buy and hoard, hoping to sell later at 100x the buying price.

Now, some chinese fellow comes along. He wants 100 acres to farm commercially. Goes to kite and finds acres and acres of unoccupied land. Gets excited and tries to find out who the owner is only to discover its owned by hundreds of individuals. Gives up and goes back home.

Same story in Nakuru, Naivasha and their environs. We have also large land owners who are basically hoarding land. End effect, reduced investment.


Valid points Tom_boy. Let's hope this rate cap will streamline land sector. I hear most banks are no longer financing land buying

Tano tena? I told you that we will be finished http://www.businessdaily...212-124shyuz/index.html[/quote]

Economy continues to bleed...Sometimes we are aloof on other peoples plight (eg job losses)...until that very plight visits our door steps.

Haki ya Mungu..That's true


How come no one laments about the thousands who have been auctioned by banks, sometimes illegally, partly due to high interest rates that are hiked irregularly halfway through the loan term.

How about the thousands that took mortgages at 15% during kibaki error then found themselves paying 22% shortly after. Who will pay them back for lost income and depression they have suffered.

Point is, there are 2 sides to every coin. Lets not just focus on negatives of rate control and Yap about it all day. Rate control is a good tool to control our banks and hopefully channel capital where it will have maximum assured return. No more money for tenderpreneurs and cowboys wa kubahatisha biashara. Money should go to established businesses with ability to repay and secondly to individuals with clear ability to repay. Banks have been playing Russian roulette with us and we pick up the tab in high interest rates.


Established businesses with ability to pay?

Once,those big businesses with ability to pay were small start ups.

Going by your reasoning, we wouldn't be having any big business now if the same had befallen them then.

There are a few positives about rates cap.

But the negatives are countless.

Three steps forward, five steps backwards. Are we going or coming? Aren't we better sitting?
winston
#2192 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 3:39:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
Wah!..the debate continues. If the professor is corrupt as he is being labelled says that Toyota is a japanese car will it change the fact that it is a japanese car? Lets differentiate facts (which stand independent of the deliverer) and opnions (which is dependent on the deliverer).
winston
#2193 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 3:44:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
i think those who say that people lost plots and other securities due to banks increasing rates...forget (1) the loan arrangement (including the right to vary interest rate) is a willing seller willing buyer arrangement (2) if the repossessions are unfair the courts are available. As for the retrenchments they are neither willing buyer willing seller and there is no recourse to courts.
quicksand
#2194 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 4:33:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
winston wrote:
Wah!..the debate continues. If the professor is corrupt as he is being labelled says that Toyota is a japanese car will it change the fact that it is a japanese car? Lets differentiate facts (which stand independent of the deliverer) and opnions (which is dependent on the deliverer).


d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
You can draw parallels between any two random items of information but they are not necessarily relevant or even useful. To wit:
Bill Gates wears trousers. I wear trousers.
Regarding Ndung'u and Toyotas being Japanese is as useful as him addressing the assembled Ugandans about the composition of soil in the upper Rift.
About his objectivity being called into question cause of aspersions cast on his tenure working with banks as governor, that seems to escape you entirely.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#2195 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 4:34:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.


Yes, he was fake and very corrupt, instead of regulating the banking industry, he more or less focused on selling banking licenses and CBK approvals of dodgy accounts.

Mpesa was more of his being at the right place at the right time, and surprisingly the banking sector was against it and still is so most likely, Safaricom must have had to part with something to get his support.

Now what annoys me mostly about his statement and makes me question his credentials is the information he is witholding when he gives opinions like the one above.

Lets analyze how banking is done in Kenya;

You apply for a loan, if you are employed, you qualify based on salary. If self employed, you give them security which is charged against the amount advanced.

In both cases, there is no pricing of risk whatsoever, that's why banks lend every customer at base rate plus whichever margin they want. Therefore 2 applicants with similar income more often than not get same interest rate, offcourse a rouge applicant will default and leave the bank with fake titles etc.

Now lets look at how banks lend in the UK;

When one borrows, the interest rate they charge you is based on many factors; including your borrowing history, employment history, age, whether you own property, your spending patterns etc. Banks use all this to determine not only the rate they will give you but also the amount. Now this is proper risk pricing. Infact they just need to feed this information into an algorithm and it auto-generates the rate and amount.

Therefore, no 2 applicants with similar income profiles will be judged as same.

Now I expect the professor to know this and so when speaking, he should give a balanced opinion on where banks should be headed. If he supports uncapping of rates, it should be only if banks are also willing to actually price risk for every individual.

He has not done this, because most likely, some banker asked him to write an article about the impact of rate caps so as to influence policy with a view to removing the caps.

Let the rate cap stay until the banks are ready to actually innovate, for now, their petulance is leaving alot of business out there. I am sure some smart banker will mop it up soon.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
tom_boy
#2196 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 4:37:50 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
mkeiy wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
obiero wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
actuarywahisa wrote:
[quote=Ericsson]Yaani people have time to respond to tom_boy
All the best


What makes tom_boy mad? Ama you'll classify me as mad as well for asking that? Laughing out loudly

First, Economic theory is not a science!

Secondly, why shouldn't someone respond if they are willing and have the time? I though this is a discussion forum and knowledge sharing is the spirit of Wazua. Watch out not to fall from that horse. Drool

@tomboy raises valid but unrealistic points in Kenya's circumstances.. He must have lived abroad. Fact is that the economy started falling sick under 24 years plus of economic misrule, Mwai Kibaki took us out of the ICU and we were almost discharged, but then 2007 happened, we thus remained in the ward, but in the last four years we have ended up in the HDU.. Corruption and bad policy will ensure that very few citizens in Kenya will ever get to drive a brand new car.

Also note that land across the world is classified as an appreciating asset.. Indeed better use of the same should be encouraged but comparing land to maize simply leaves me speechless


The effects of hoarding land and hoarding maize are the same. Only difference is the time span to effect. If people hoard maize, the immediate effect is starvation.

When people hoard land, it leads to less access to a crucial factor of production, leads to less production, less jobs, less money to buy unga , eventually starvation.

@tomboy the speculative land is normally less than half an acre, barely sufficient for subsistence farming.. Mambo ya starvation tuulize Kulalu



Thats not true my fren. Tembea Kite na kwingineko. What typically happens is some guy buys 100acres from some maasai fellas. Subdivides it into quarters. Sells it to hundreds of kenyans. All these kenyans buy and hoard, hoping to sell later at 100x the buying price.

Now, some chinese fellow comes along. He wants 100 acres to farm commercially. Goes to kite and finds acres and acres of unoccupied land. Gets excited and tries to find out who the owner is only to discover its owned by hundreds of individuals. Gives up and goes back home.

Same story in Nakuru, Naivasha and their environs. We have also large land owners who are basically hoarding land. End effect, reduced investment.


Valid points Tom_boy. Let's hope this rate cap will streamline land sector. I hear most banks are no longer financing land buying

Tano tena? I told you that we will be finished http://www.businessdaily...212-124shyuz/index.html[/quote]

Economy continues to bleed...Sometimes we are aloof on other peoples plight (eg job losses)...until that very plight visits our door steps.

Haki ya Mungu..That's true


How come no one laments about the thousands who have been auctioned by banks, sometimes illegally, partly due to high interest rates that are hiked irregularly halfway through the loan term.

How about the thousands that took mortgages at 15% during kibaki error then found themselves paying 22% shortly after. Who will pay them back for lost income and depression they have suffered.

Point is, there are 2 sides to every coin. Lets not just focus on negatives of rate control and Yap about it all day. Rate control is a good tool to control our banks and hopefully channel capital where it will have maximum assured return. No more money for tenderpreneurs and cowboys wa kubahatisha biashara. Money should go to established businesses with ability to repay and secondly to individuals with clear ability to repay. Banks have been playing Russian roulette with us and we pick up the tab in high interest rates.


Established businesses with ability to pay?

Once,those big businesses with ability to pay were small start ups.

Going by your reasoning, we wouldn't be having any big business now if the same had befallen them then.

There are a few positives about rates cap.

But the negatives are countless.

Three steps forward, five steps backwards. Are we going or coming? Aren't we better sitting?


Let us debate. The problem is many of the anti rate cap brigade are theory people.

Which bank has EVER lent money to a startup that has no security and no big connections before they are able to demonstrate clear positive cash flow. Tell me just one instance in Kenya even at those 25% interest.

Established business is not = to big business. An established business is one that is selling a good or service, customers are buying and actually paying for the items, there is a system to how the business runs and this system is expected to continue running in the forseeable future. Fly by night tenderpreneurship is not an established business. Mama mboga or mama Oliech is an established business. I hope guys can get this. Stop with many theories. Look at what is practical
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
quicksand
#2197 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 4:43:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.


Yes, he was fake and very corrupt, instead of regulating the banking industry, he more or less focused on selling banking licenses and CBK approvals of dodgy accounts.

Mpesa was more of his being at the right place at the right time, and surprisingly the banking sector was against it and still is so most likely, Safaricom must have had to part with something to get his support.

Now what annoys me mostly about his statement and makes me question his credentials is the information he is witholding when he gives opinions like the one above.

Lets analyze how banking is done in Kenya;

You apply for a loan, if you are employed, you qualify based on salary. If self employed, you give them security which is charged against the amount advanced.

In both cases, there is no pricing of risk whatsoever, that's why banks lend every customer at base rate plus whichever margin they want. Therefore 2 applicants with similar income more often than not get same interest rate, offcourse a rouge applicant will default and leave the bank with fake titles etc.

Now lets look at how banks lend in the UK;

When one borrows, the interest rate they charge you is based on many factors; including your borrowing history, employment history, age, whether you own property, your spending patterns etc. Banks use all this to determine not only the rate they will give you but also the amount. Now this is proper risk pricing. Infact they just need to feed this information into an algorithm and it auto-generates the rate and amount.

Therefore, no 2 applicants with similar income profiles will be judged as same.

Now I expect the professor to know this and so when speaking, he should give a balanced opinion on where banks should be headed. If he supports uncapping of rates, it should be only if banks are also willing to actually price risk for every individual.

He has not done this, because most likely, some banker asked him to write an article about the impact of rate caps so as to influence policy with a view to removing the caps.

Let the rate cap stay until the banks are ready to actually innovate, for now, their petulance is leaving alot of business out there. I am sure some smart banker will mop it up soon.

Applause Applause Applause Applause
You have summarized it perfectly.
tom_boy
#2198 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 4:46:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
Flo-ology wrote:
[quote=obiero]Governor Njuguna Ndungu speaks on the negative effects of the rate cap http://www.businessdaily...35034-wlaj53/index.html[/quote]
This was a fake governor. I even doubt his professor title. He is very corrupt and was corrupted more by the banks, that is why he is pro rate cap.


Yes, he was fake and very corrupt, instead of regulating the banking industry, he more or less focused on selling banking licenses and CBK approvals of dodgy accounts.

Mpesa was more of his being at the right place at the right time, and surprisingly the banking sector was against it and still is so most likely, Safaricom must have had to part with something to get his support.

Now what annoys me mostly about his statement and makes me question his credentials is the information he is witholding when he gives opinions like the one above.

Lets analyze how banking is done in Kenya;

You apply for a loan, if you are employed, you qualify based on salary. If self employed, you give them security which is charged against the amount advanced.

In both cases, there is no pricing of risk whatsoever, that's why banks lend every customer at base rate plus whichever margin they want. Therefore 2 applicants with similar income more often than not get same interest rate, offcourse a rouge applicant will default and leave the bank with fake titles etc.

Now lets look at how banks lend in the UK;

When one borrows, the interest rate they charge you is based on many factors; including your borrowing history, employment history, age, whether you own property, your spending patterns etc. Banks use all this to determine not only the rate they will give you but also the amount. Now this is proper risk pricing. Infact they just need to feed this information into an algorithm and it auto-generates the rate and amount.

Therefore, no 2 applicants with similar income profiles will be judged as same.

Now I expect the professor to know this and so when speaking, he should give a balanced opinion on where banks should be headed. If he supports uncapping of rates, it should be only if banks are also willing to actually price risk for every individual.

He has not done this, because most likely, some banker asked him to write an article about the impact of rate caps so as to influence policy with a view to removing the caps.

Let the rate cap stay until the banks are ready to actually innovate, for now, their petulance is leaving alot of business out there. I am sure some smart banker will mop it up soon.


Finally. Someone who is PRACTICAL.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Monk
#2199 Posted : Friday, July 28, 2017 7:13:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2009
Posts: 256
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
[quote=ombaalbt]An indepth look at interest rate capping https://t.co/5pwgLb8tbL[/quote]

I like the parting shot. Banks should be allowed to price risk.

At this point...there are 3 possible outcomes:

1) status quo. capping remains
2) modified capping
3) abandonment of capping.

Ladies and gentlemen...kindly place your bets!

That was a well done article


Nicely done article. However, it is more theoretical than practical when it comes to how banking is actually conducted. I have never gone to a bank for a loan and been told to provide certain information about myself and my intended use of the money and then based on that info. they will get back to me with the interest rate they will offer me the loan at.

Certain individuals are also " risk free" in a sense but Kenyan banks categorise everyone as high risk.

Goverments are not necessarilly risk free as we are well aware. Thats why we have junk bonds.

So, "western economists" will always try to argue from many theoretical stand points about bank rate control. Bottom line, its all theory. None of those theoretical facts apply when the rubber meets the road, or when customer meets banker.

How come we did not get fuel shortage with fuel price control.

Why do banks insult our intelligence when they say they will happily lend to Wanjiku at 25% , but if we lend to her at 14%, she might default.

Banks are holding the country hostage on fake pretencious economic theories that they themselves do not apply. We need the next leader to have balls of steel, stare them in the face, revamp nbk and arm twist kcb and coop into lending at 14%. Then we see what the rest will do.


Fuel shortages in Mpeketoni...
http://www.the-star.co.k...amu-businesses_c1589970

tom_boy
#2200 Posted : Saturday, July 29, 2017 7:41:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Monk wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
[quote=ombaalbt]An indepth look at interest rate capping https://t.co/5pwgLb8tbL[/quote]

I like the parting shot. Banks should be allowed to price risk.

At this point...there are 3 possible outcomes:

1) status quo. capping remains
2) modified capping
3) abandonment of capping.

Ladies and gentlemen...kindly place your bets!

That was a well done article


Nicely done article. However, it is more theoretical than practical when it comes to how banking is actually conducted. I have never gone to a bank for a loan and been told to provide certain information about myself and my intended use of the money and then based on that info. they will get back to me with the interest rate they will offer me the loan at.

Certain individuals are also " risk free" in a sense but Kenyan banks categorise everyone as high risk.

Goverments are not necessarilly risk free as we are well aware. Thats why we have junk bonds.

So, "western economists" will always try to argue from many theoretical stand points about bank rate control. Bottom line, its all theory. None of those theoretical facts apply when the rubber meets the road, or when customer meets banker.

How come we did not get fuel shortage with fuel price control.

Why do banks insult our intelligence when they say they will happily lend to Wanjiku at 25% , but if we lend to her at 14%, she might default.

Banks are holding the country hostage on fake pretencious economic theories that they themselves do not apply. We need the next leader to have balls of steel, stare them in the face, revamp nbk and arm twist kcb and coop into lending at 14%. Then we see what the rest will do.


Fuel shortages in Mpeketoni...
http://www.the-star.co.k...amu-businesses_c1589970



Shame on you Shame on you
Dont use isolated incidences to prove a point you do not have.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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