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Law Capping interest rates
winston
#2101 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 5:27:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
maka wrote:
Ngalaka wrote:
winston wrote:
Government is playing the see no evil, hear no evil card on this rate capping monster. Bleed as the economy may; credit squeeze as the banks may - nothing is moving Government on this in the short term.

As soon as the elections are behind us, the obvious, long overdue corrective action will be taken.
In the meantime, the economy may as well bleed all it wants, as in 'their' books, politics takes priority.


The change is the one that will kill the economy...defaults will be the order of the day the economy will crumble.

by defaults...are you referring to bank loans? if so werent they there pre-rate capping?
winston
#2102 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 8:56:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi
#2103 Posted : Thursday, July 06, 2017 5:11:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
[quote=winston]More voices for change:

http://www.businessdaily...1940-s21gyaz/index.html[/quote]

Do SME's have lobby groups, it would be nice to hear some of them saying they want the cap removed so they can get loans and pay at 25% interest.

Otherwise, its always about banks this banks that.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
winston
#2104 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 3:54:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
[quote=winston]More voices for change:

http://www.businessdaily...1940-s21gyaz/index.html[/quote]

Do SME's have lobby groups, it would be nice to hear some of them saying they want the cap removed so they can get loans and pay at 25% interest.

Otherwise, its always about banks this banks that.


Havent heard of a lobby group specifically for SME's.

I tend to think that the lack of choice is the issue though. If am in an enterprise and I can generate a 35% return, there is no reason why I cant afford a 25% interest loan. But as its stands now, while the loan maximum rate is 14%, the nature of enterprise may be too risky for the banks to loan me at 14%. So my business opportunity stays unexploited...while the banks stay with their money (or park it in T/bonds). In net terms am the greater loser.

What is sad is that probably the SME's together with the informal sector are the biggest employers (outside of government)...and they are the ones taking the hit.
tom_boy
#2105 Posted : Friday, July 07, 2017 5:20:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
winston wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
[quote=winston]More voices for change:

http://www.businessdaily...1940-s21gyaz/index.html[/quote]

Do SME's have lobby groups, it would be nice to hear some of them saying they want the cap removed so they can get loans and pay at 25% interest.

Otherwise, its always about banks this banks that.


Havent heard of a lobby group specifically for SME's.

I tend to think that the lack of choice is the issue though. If am in an enterprise and I can generate a 35% return, there is no reason why I cant afford a 25% interest loan. But as its stands now, while the loan maximum rate is 14%, the nature of enterprise may be too risky for the banks to loan me at 14%. So my business opportunity stays unexploited...while the banks stay with their money (or park it in T/bonds). In net terms am the greater loser.

What is sad is that probably the SME's together with the informal sector are the biggest employers (outside of government)...and they are the ones taking the hit.


Rate cap is very good for business. All those guys complaining are either shylocks, tenderprenuers ,startups or owners of loss making enterprises having a rough time convincing banks to loan them anything. Initially banks would loan to these guys because they only had to pay back for a year or so and the bank would have recouped the principle almost in entirety. Sasa at 4% spread, that is history.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
winston
#2106 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2017 11:36:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
@tomboy...loans are not meant only for the strong and stable companies. Infact those very startups and loss making companies are the ones that need the loans most.
We can argue but bottom line is the intention of government is good. But banks have successfully frustrated that intention. And those who need loans have no other recourse other than to get funds outside the formal system.
obiero
#2107 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2017 12:59:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,503
Location: nairobi
winston wrote:
@tomboy...loans are not meant only for the strong and stable companies. Infact those very startups and loss making companies are the ones that need the loans most.
We can argue but bottom line is the intention of government is good. But banks have successfully frustrated that intention. And those who need loans have no other recourse other than to get funds outside the formal system.

@winston you actually had time to respond to @tomboy

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winston
#2108 Posted : Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:53:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
obiero wrote:
winston wrote:
@tomboy...loans are not meant only for the strong and stable companies. Infact those very startups and loss making companies are the ones that need the loans most.
We can argue but bottom line is the intention of government is good. But banks have successfully frustrated that intention. And those who need loans have no other recourse other than to get funds outside the formal system.

@winston you actually had time to respond to @tomboy

@obiero..lol
tom_boy
#2109 Posted : Sunday, July 09, 2017 1:05:54 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
winston wrote:
@tomboy...loans are not meant only for the strong and stable companies. Infact those very startups and loss making companies are the ones that need the loans most.
We can argue but bottom line is the intention of government is good. But banks have successfully frustrated that intention. And those who need loans have no other recourse other than to get funds outside the formal system.


Its not about who needs loans. Its about ability to repay.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
tom_boy
#2110 Posted : Sunday, July 09, 2017 11:21:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
tom_boy wrote:
winston wrote:
@tomboy...loans are not meant only for the strong and stable companies. Infact those very startups and loss making companies are the ones that need the loans most.
We can argue but bottom line is the intention of government is good. But banks have successfully frustrated that intention. And those who need loans have no other recourse other than to get funds outside the formal system.


Its not about who needs loans. Its about ability to repay.


You dont hire people that need jobs. You hire people who can perform the tasks required of them. With M- Akiba bond + pesalink, the banks will get squeezed even further. If Govt does not give in to undue pressure from those already looting from banks, the banks will have to style up and do proper lending.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
tom_boy
#2111 Posted : Sunday, July 09, 2017 12:28:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
winston wrote:
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
[quote=winston]More voices for change:

http://www.businessdaily...1940-s21gyaz/index.html[/quote]

Do SME's have lobby groups, it would be nice to hear some of them saying they want the cap removed so they can get loans and pay at 25% interest.

Otherwise, its always about banks this banks that.


Havent heard of a lobby group specifically for SME's.

I tend to think that the lack of choice is the issue though. If am in an enterprise and I can generate a 35% return, there is no reason why I cant afford a 25% interest loan. But as its stands now, while the loan maximum rate is 14%, the nature of enterprise may be too risky for the banks to loan me at 14%. So my business opportunity stays unexploited...while the banks stay with their money (or park it in T/bonds). In net terms am the greater loser.

What is sad is that probably the SME's together with the informal sector are the biggest employers (outside of government)...and they are the ones taking the hit.


Wengine wenyu mko na theory mingi sana. Please state what enterprise can generate 35% return and has the following characteristics that banks consider when lending,

- legal business
- regular monthly or frequent cash flow
- assured income/ business with ready paying customers that are verified and expected to continue paying for the good/ service in the long term. Not a one off event.
- Ready clean security acceptable to the bank.
- has been operational for at least 2yrs and has established systems.

Show me which business is this with above characteristics and has 35% return and has been denied a loan at 14% by their bank.

Lets get real.

The problem with Africa is that we dont build businesses. We do side hussles then expect a bank to finance our weird untested " business opportunities" that we see floating aroung the corner, then cry foul when bank says "no".

Interest rate caps is good for real businesses that have cashflow, systems, assets for security. Others have to work hard at building real businesses before they can get a loan.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
winston
#2112 Posted : Sunday, July 09, 2017 7:50:24 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
@tomboy...I take Obiero's advice. I rest my case.
aemathenge
#2113 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 12:39:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
Copy and Paste:

Quote:
The interest rate cap has led to several consequences, some of which have been elucidated before in this column.

The most concerning are the effects it has had on monetary policy and access to credit for the private sector.

Now, new medium to long-term effects are becoming apparent.

The first is that, private sector, particularly small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) are getting used to functioning without the credit lines on which they used to depend.

So while some in the private sector may be turning to the shadow lending system for credit, many more may be growing accustomed to getting by with no credit lines at all.

In effect, the cap may be dampening the private sector’s appetite for credit.

Thus the concern is not only that the economic engine of the country is being starved of liquidity, the engine may be getting used to ticking away at sub-optimal levels due to poor access to credit with dire consequences to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth.

The GDP grew at just 4.7 per cent in the first quarter of the year, and although part of this is due to a contraction in agriculture, the cap has also informed the sub-par growth.

The lingering question therefore is whether dampened appetite for credit will become a long-term trend or whether the private sector will aggressively take up credit lines if the cap is reversed.

Secondly, since the cap has made government the preferred client for many banks, it has created the very situation the government has been stating it has been trying to avoid and that is crowding out the private sector.

Thus the irony is that in government assenting to the cap law, it has created the very situation it sought to circumvent.

Indeed in the 2017/18 financial year the government plans to finance 60.7 per cent of the fiscal deficit using domestic sources.

In the past the government would somewhat limit heavy borrowing from domestic markets, but in the age of the interest rate cap, it is well aware of its priority status and thus seems to be leveraging this to finance the budget with domestic sources perhaps more aggressively than had previously been the case.

Will this become a long-term habit that proves difficult to break?

Third, however, there is a silver lining in the cloud; banks are going to come out of this period more efficient than ever.

The cap has caused banks to ask themselves hard questions such as:

How much labour is actually required to effectively meet client needs?

How many branches need to remain open to serve clients and hit targets?

The cap may be accelerating the automation drive that had already began to occur in the banking sector and banks should embrace this era of capped rates to become more efficient.

Banks will likely emerge from the interest rate cap as leaner and more efficient entities than would have been the case if the cap hadn’t been effected.

This is a long-term effect on the banking sector and may well have lasting benefits on profit margins.


Source Link:
Ericsson
#2114 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 6:55:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,683
Location: NAIROBI
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
Spikes
#2115 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 7:14:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Ericsson wrote:
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market

And the spiral effect benefits Wanjiku.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
obiero
#2116 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 7:18:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,503
Location: nairobi
aemathenge wrote:
Copy and Paste:

Quote:
The interest rate cap has led to several consequences, some of which have been elucidated before in this column.

The most concerning are the effects it has had on monetary policy and access to credit for the private sector.

Now, new medium to long-term effects are becoming apparent.

The first is that, private sector, particularly small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) are getting used to functioning without the credit lines on which they used to depend.

So while some in the private sector may be turning to the shadow lending system for credit, many more may be growing accustomed to getting by with no credit lines at all.

In effect, the cap may be dampening the private sector’s appetite for credit.

Thus the concern is not only that the economic engine of the country is being starved of liquidity, the engine may be getting used to ticking away at sub-optimal levels due to poor access to credit with dire consequences to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth.

The GDP grew at just 4.7 per cent in the first quarter of the year, and although part of this is due to a contraction in agriculture, the cap has also informed the sub-par growth.

The lingering question therefore is whether dampened appetite for credit will become a long-term trend or whether the private sector will aggressively take up credit lines if the cap is reversed.

Secondly, since the cap has made government the preferred client for many banks, it has created the very situation the government has been stating it has been trying to avoid and that is crowding out the private sector.

Thus the irony is that in government assenting to the cap law, it has created the very situation it sought to circumvent.

Indeed in the 2017/18 financial year the government plans to finance 60.7 per cent of the fiscal deficit using domestic sources.

In the past the government would somewhat limit heavy borrowing from domestic markets, but in the age of the interest rate cap, it is well aware of its priority status and thus seems to be leveraging this to finance the budget with domestic sources perhaps more aggressively than had previously been the case.

Will this become a long-term habit that proves difficult to break?

Third, however, there is a silver lining in the cloud; banks are going to come out of this period more efficient than ever.

The cap has caused banks to ask themselves hard questions such as:

How much labour is actually required to effectively meet client needs?

How many branches need to remain open to serve clients and hit targets?

The cap may be accelerating the automation drive that had already began to occur in the banking sector and banks should embrace this era of capped rates to become more efficient.

Banks will likely emerge from the interest rate cap as leaner and more efficient entities than would have been the case if the cap hadn’t been effected.

This is a long-term effect on the banking sector and may well have lasting benefits on profit margins.


Source Link:

That's the whole truth, nothing but the truth

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quicksand
#2117 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 8:13:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market


There is no indicator that had the interest rates remained unregulated, the government would have borrowed less.
With no ceiling, rates would have started climbing to the mid-twenties because of irresponsible government borrowing, just like the Cheserem days when TBills hit an eye-watering return rate of 31%. The government was a simple money minting machine for banks back then.
The net effect would have been businesses getting starved of credit anyway.
If the government does not stay the course and reverses the law, it will all have been pointless. Now, Rotich needs to put his thinking cap on and finds another source of money to plug holes and reduce reliability on expensive domestic credit, we need a fiscal disciplinarian, wield a big club and smash heads if a whiff of waste is detected at ministries,..counties...and the good doctor at Central starts squeezing bankster balls. The Trifecta.
Now is not the time to relent, it is time to disembowel and exsanguinate large scale usury and predatory practices in our financial system once and for all, even if it causes us some temporary pain.
We survived 24 years of Moi for God's sake.
obiero
#2118 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 9:30:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,503
Location: nairobi
quicksand wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market


There is no indicator that had the interest rates remained unregulated, the government would have borrowed less.
With no ceiling, rates would have started climbing to the mid-twenties because of irresponsible government borrowing, just like the Cheserem days when TBills hit an eye-watering return rate of 31%. The government was a simple money minting machine for banks back then.
The net effect would have been businesses getting starved of credit anyway.
If the government does not stay the course and reverses the law, it will all have been pointless. Now, Rotich needs to put his thinking cap on and finds another source of money to plug holes and reduce reliability on expensive domestic credit, we need a fiscal disciplinarian, wield a big club and smash heads if a whiff of waste is detected at ministries,..counties...and the good doctor at Central starts squeezing bankster balls. The Trifecta.
Now is not the time to relent, it is time to disembowel and exsanguinate large scale usury and predatory practices in our financial system once and for all, even if it causes us some temporary pain.
We survived 24 years of Moi for God's sake.

We never survived that period of 24 years. Infact Kenya had died but was resurrected by Mwai Kibaki

HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
tom_boy
#2119 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 12:10:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
quicksand wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market


There is no indicator that had the interest rates remained unregulated, the government would have borrowed less.
With no ceiling, rates would have started climbing to the mid-twenties because of irresponsible government borrowing, just like the Cheserem days when TBills hit an eye-watering return rate of 31%. The government was a simple money minting machine for banks back then.
The net effect would have been businesses getting starved of credit anyway.
If the government does not stay the course and reverses the law, it will all have been pointless. Now, Rotich needs to put his thinking cap on and finds another source of money to plug holes and reduce reliability on expensive domestic credit, we need a fiscal disciplinarian, wield a big club and smash heads if a whiff of waste is detected at ministries,..counties...and the good doctor at Central starts squeezing bankster balls. The Trifecta.
Now is not the time to relent, it is time to disembowel and exsanguinate large scale usury and predatory practices in our financial system once and for all, even if it causes us some temporary pain.
We survived 24 years of Moi for God's sake.


My sentiments exactly.

And if M-akiba bond - Pesa link channels are exploited well by Gok, banks will start wailing all over again. Then they will dry their tears and realise they should just get to work and lend responsibly, utilise a working CRB etc etc.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
wukan
#2120 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 2:36:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,589
tom_boy wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Ericsson wrote:
Interest rates cap was for government to borrow money cheaply in the domestic market


There is no indicator that had the interest rates remained unregulated, the government would have borrowed less.
With no ceiling, rates would have started climbing to the mid-twenties because of irresponsible government borrowing, just like the Cheserem days when TBills hit an eye-watering return rate of 31%. The government was a simple money minting machine for banks back then.
The net effect would have been businesses getting starved of credit anyway.
If the government does not stay the course and reverses the law, it will all have been pointless. Now, Rotich needs to put his thinking cap on and finds another source of money to plug holes and reduce reliability on expensive domestic credit, we need a fiscal disciplinarian, wield a big club and smash heads if a whiff of waste is detected at ministries,..counties...and the good doctor at Central starts squeezing bankster balls. The Trifecta.
Now is not the time to relent, it is time to disembowel and exsanguinate large scale usury and predatory practices in our financial system once and for all, even if it causes us some temporary pain.
We survived 24 years of Moi for God's sake.


My sentiments exactly.

And if M-akiba bond - Pesa link channels are exploited well by Gok, banks will start wailing all over again. Then they will dry their tears and realise they should just get to work and lend responsibly, utilise a working CRB etc etc.


River road economics at its bestd'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

There is nothing new under the sun. These usury laws were used in US in the 1970's and we ended up with prime(whites) and sub-prime borrowers(blacks and other minorities). Banks still made money and super-profits the people who suffered are the sub-prime borrowers most ended up in urban ghettos and minimum wage employment.

If you think 3% credit growth will guarantee your kids employment in this economy in the next 5 years then it's fine. Paraphrasing Kibaki, tuendelee na style hiyo hiyosmile smile
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