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SGR Progress thus far
hardwood
#861 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:27:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Rahatupu wrote:
hardwood wrote:
SGR fully booked until next week. They should introduce another train.

http://www.the-star.co.k...d-celebrations_c1583684


@hardwood @impunity,why can't these trains make more than 1 trip per day.....Eg morning, afternoon and evening?


Yep. Thats what they should do. Ikifika 1.30pm it makes return trip at 3pm to reach destination at 7.30pm. Or introduce the inter-county trains that will still get one to mbs or nbi.
kayhara
#862 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 1:11:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,059
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm
To Each His Own
mkeiy
#863 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:01:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
harrydre wrote:
Some wonder why Mwafrika is behind in everything, it's some kind of reasoning I see here. These people opposing infrastructure expansion, go out there, visit the world we are eons behind.

Heck even if the SGR is double the cost, can you think outside the box on the pros, time saved, reduced congestion, quick flow of goods & services, roads damage, amount of cargo one round of train will transport etc etc. Nini mbaya na watu?? Lets review 1 Yr later and see. I recall people made noise on Thika Highway, these days wamenyamaza!




Heck, business is about profits and the margins are highest using road cargo for now, ceteris paribus.

At the moment, trucking on the road is cheaper & convenient.

I am wondering people who are not direct consumers of this SGR Cargo, are lecturing others.


@harrydre. As it is;
It's not saving time (congestion at ICD)& delays at Terminal 2 in Msa. Hence no such quick flow of goods.
It's expensive.

These are the ONLY major factors a consumer (exporter or importer) will consider. Once they are fixed, we won't have reason to use road. I will benefit directly. Why would I oppose such a thing?

Stuff like road congestion, amount of cargo moved per trip etc, those are for the masses.
Masses do not transport cargo, individuals and businesses do.
Fortunately, in business,it's more about business sense, unlike in our politics were other factors reign supreme.

At the moment,
Only @Essyk is seeing it as a consumer. She's going to try transporting using SGR Cargo, I am sticking to the road.
Acheni siaza za Jubilee/Nasa, hii ni Biashara;
@harrydre @Muchknow @Murchr @hardwood, what are you doing about it? Mwatumia SGR Cargo ama la?




SGR Cargo may not be cheaper, agents say!





Quote:
It will cost Sh50,000 to ferry a 20-foot container from the port to the Nairobi Inland Container Depot (ICD), according to Kenya Railways.
Truckers charge between Sh60,000 and Sh80,000 to ferry the same container from the port to Nairobi, depending on the weight and type of cargo.
“We have been paying the same rate to transport a container via Rift Valley Railways and really, if you look at other costs before goods are delivered at your door step, it might necessarily not be cheaper,” said William Ojonyo, the Kenya International Freight and Warehousing Association (Kifwa) chairman elect


This is a very pedestrian argument no wonder very many truckers are making losses.

Paying 100 shillings to travel in 3 days and paying 100 shillings to travel in 1 day doesn't have the same cost implication. One is definitely more expensive than the other even though the travel cost portion seems to be the same.

Will DHL, Bollore, Fedex among other logistics and cargo handling firms prefer road transport to SGR?

Any rational importer or business man will rather spend 10K more to have the cargo in 1-3 days rather than spend 10K less to have the cargo in 5-10 days. That is business sense!


@Swenani.
With all due respect, stick to matters 'fish & airport'.
You got better luck there.

I am a businessman & a direct consumer of trucking from Mombasa to Nairobi.
If you have your 40ft container loaded in the evening in Mombasa, less than 16 hours (between 4am & 10am), you will have it at your doorstep,in Nairobi.
SGR would cost give or take 100k+20k=110k. Add that to the fact that you have 'waiting time'(not all consignments are bound for Nairobi's ICD & some vessels will be discharging very few containers) for it to be loaded on the wagons in Mombasa, then clearing time once it gets to Nairobi's ICD.

Hiyo container itachukua 5-10 days on road kwani inatoka Timbuktu?

About Bollore,DHL,Fedex etc, give them a call & find out how much it will cost you to transport the same 40ft container from Mombasa. There's a reason why they serve 'special' clients only.
Swenani
#864 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:11:41 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm


Why can't they just have two trains, an express one and the other which makes stops to every station
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
2012
#865 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:19:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm


Why can't they just have two trains, an express one and the other which makes stops to every station


That's exactly what they have. What I'm wondering is, why don't they operate at night? Some travelers are not traveling for sightseeing.

BBI will solve it
:)
Swenani
#866 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:51:57 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
2012 wrote:
Swenani wrote:
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm


Why can't they just have two trains, an express one and the other which makes stops to every station


That's exactly what they have. What I'm wondering is, why don't they operate at night? Some travelers are not traveling for sightseeing.



I meant to have an express train and a stop over train both in the evening and morning
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
kayhara
#867 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 3:51:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,059
Swenani wrote:
2012 wrote:
Swenani wrote:
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm


Why can't they just have two trains, an express one and the other which makes stops to every station


That's exactly what they have. What I'm wondering is, why don't they operate at night? Some travelers are not traveling for sightseeing.



I meant to have an express train and a stop over train both in the evening and morning

Doesn't it mean that they now have two express trains, 9am and 3pm
And a county train at 8am? That's a choice of 3 trains each way.
To Each His Own
freiks
#868 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:14:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,732
kayhara wrote:
Swenani wrote:
2012 wrote:
Swenani wrote:
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm


Why can't they just have two trains, an express one and the other which makes stops to every station


That's exactly what they have. What I'm wondering is, why don't they operate at night? Some travelers are not traveling for sightseeing.



I meant to have an express train and a stop over train both in the evening and morning

Doesn't it mean that they now have two express trains, 9am and 3pm
And a county train at 8am? That's a choice of 3 trains each way.


Mombasa raha and crew ni shinda tu sasa
Life is an endless adventure
Swenani
#869 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:21:44 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
mkeiy wrote:
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
harrydre wrote:
Some wonder why Mwafrika is behind in everything, it's some kind of reasoning I see here. These people opposing infrastructure expansion, go out there, visit the world we are eons behind.

Heck even if the SGR is double the cost, can you think outside the box on the pros, time saved, reduced congestion, quick flow of goods & services, roads damage, amount of cargo one round of train will transport etc etc. Nini mbaya na watu?? Lets review 1 Yr later and see. I recall people made noise on Thika Highway, these days wamenyamaza!




Heck, business is about profits and the margins are highest using road cargo for now, ceteris paribus.

At the moment, trucking on the road is cheaper & convenient.

I am wondering people who are not direct consumers of this SGR Cargo, are lecturing others.


@harrydre. As it is;
It's not saving time (congestion at ICD)& delays at Terminal 2 in Msa. Hence no such quick flow of goods.
It's expensive.

These are the ONLY major factors a consumer (exporter or importer) will consider. Once they are fixed, we won't have reason to use road. I will benefit directly. Why would I oppose such a thing?

Stuff like road congestion, amount of cargo moved per trip etc, those are for the masses.
Masses do not transport cargo, individuals and businesses do.
Fortunately, in business,it's more about business sense, unlike in our politics were other factors reign supreme.

At the moment,
Only @Essyk is seeing it as a consumer. She's going to try transporting using SGR Cargo, I am sticking to the road.
Acheni siaza za Jubilee/Nasa, hii ni Biashara;
@harrydre @Muchknow @Murchr @hardwood, what are you doing about it? Mwatumia SGR Cargo ama la?




SGR Cargo may not be cheaper, agents say!





Quote:
It will cost Sh50,000 to ferry a 20-foot container from the port to the Nairobi Inland Container Depot (ICD), according to Kenya Railways.
Truckers charge between Sh60,000 and Sh80,000 to ferry the same container from the port to Nairobi, depending on the weight and type of cargo.
“We have been paying the same rate to transport a container via Rift Valley Railways and really, if you look at other costs before goods are delivered at your door step, it might necessarily not be cheaper,” said William Ojonyo, the Kenya International Freight and Warehousing Association (Kifwa) chairman elect


This is a very pedestrian argument no wonder very many truckers are making losses.

Paying 100 shillings to travel in 3 days and paying 100 shillings to travel in 1 day doesn't have the same cost implication. One is definitely more expensive than the other even though the travel cost portion seems to be the same.

Will DHL, Bollore, Fedex among other logistics and cargo handling firms prefer road transport to SGR?

Any rational importer or business man will rather spend 10K more to have the cargo in 1-3 days rather than spend 10K less to have the cargo in 5-10 days. That is business sense!


@Swenani.
With all due respect, stick to matters 'fish & airport'.
You got better luck there.

I am a businessman & a direct consumer of trucking from Mombasa to Nairobi.
If you have your 40ft container loaded in the evening in Mombasa, less than 16 hours (between 4am & 10am), you will have it at your doorstep,in Nairobi.
SGR would cost give or take 100k+20k=110k. Add that to the fact that you have 'waiting time'(not all consignments are bound for Nairobi's ICD & some vessels will be discharging very few containers) for it to be loaded on the wagons in Mombasa, then clearing time once it gets to Nairobi's ICD.

Hiyo container itachukua 5-10 days on road kwani inatoka Timbuktu?

About Bollore,DHL,Fedex etc, give them a call & find out how much it will cost you to transport the same 40ft container from Mombasa. There's a reason why they serve 'special' clients only.



Your argument is no longer pedestrian but something else.

1. My understanding is that clearing at the ICD will be similar to the clearing procedure at the port of MSA or the CFS hence the clearing time at either the port or ICD is a non factor-correct me if i'm wrong
2. That calculation of 16 hrs is too optimistic- optimistic scenerios are never considered in any business decision. For SGR, the most likely travel time will be 8 hrs or we can even take your optimistic time to be the SGR pessimistic time.Driving to Mombasa in a private car takes between 7-8hrs in a normal situation, how on earth will a truck which struggles to do 50KM take 16 hrs in a normal day
3. SGR will lead to a reduction in storage costs since you can easily repackage and consolidate cargo at Nairobi ICD during the free storage window period for redistribution to various parts of the country but for trucks, it means either repacking in Mombasa(which might lead to extra transport costs) or repacking in Nairobi before distribution leading to additional warehousing costs.
4. Have you factored in the delays in truck offloading at Nairobi due to the which might lead to additional transport or warehousing costs? With SGR ICD, you do not have to worry about the delay in offloading since you can store your goods at the ICD for free as your book your cargo for offloading.How many free days to truckers provide for offloading once your cargo arrives at NBO?
5. On the delays of offloading due to different cargo destination locations, do you know why 1,620 wagons were ordered for? It does't mean the train has to wait cargo destined to the SGR station to be offloaded before proceeding to the ICD, It can easily detach the wagons at the SGR station and proceed to the ICD with the wagons destined to ICD.
6. Will Bollore, Fedex, DHL etc hire truckers(since most truckers depend on this firms) for their transport needs between MSA and NBI or will they use SGR?

Trucking only makes business sense to truckers and small scale traders who import japanase vehicle even the mitumba traders will opt for SGR since 1 tonne of cargo to Nairobi will costs 32K.
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Gathige
#870 Posted : Wednesday, June 21, 2017 5:38:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
kayhara wrote:
From Atanas maina,on Business Daily youtube the 9am express tran remains.
From July 1st the county train leaves Mombasa and Nairobi at 8am, stopping at each Station and getting to Nairobi and Mombasa at 1.30 pm, then the same train leaves Nairobi and Mombasa at 3pm as an express train getting to Mombasa and Nairobi at 7.50pm



That's good news. Will paying online guarantee one a seat or one has to go to the station to confirm availability of seats after paying? Hapo Sielewi

"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
mkeiy
#871 Posted : Thursday, June 22, 2017 9:37:46 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
harrydre wrote:
Some wonder why Mwafrika is behind in everything, it's some kind of reasoning I see here. These people opposing infrastructure expansion, go out there, visit the world we are eons behind.

Heck even if the SGR is double the cost, can you think outside the box on the pros, time saved, reduced congestion, quick flow of goods & services, roads damage, amount of cargo one round of train will transport etc etc. Nini mbaya na watu?? Lets review 1 Yr later and see. I recall people made noise on Thika Highway, these days wamenyamaza!




Heck, business is about profits and the margins are highest using road cargo for now, ceteris paribus.

At the moment, trucking on the road is cheaper & convenient.

I am wondering people who are not direct consumers of this SGR Cargo, are lecturing others.


@harrydre. As it is;
It's not saving time (congestion at ICD)& delays at Terminal 2 in Msa. Hence no such quick flow of goods.
It's expensive.

These are the ONLY major factors a consumer (exporter or importer) will consider. Once they are fixed, we won't have reason to use road. I will benefit directly. Why would I oppose such a thing?

Stuff like road congestion, amount of cargo moved per trip etc, those are for the masses.
Masses do not transport cargo, individuals and businesses do.
Fortunately, in business,it's more about business sense, unlike in our politics were other factors reign supreme.

At the moment,
Only @Essyk is seeing it as a consumer. She's going to try transporting using SGR Cargo, I am sticking to the road.
Acheni siaza za Jubilee/Nasa, hii ni Biashara;
@harrydre @Muchknow @Murchr @hardwood, what are you doing about it? Mwatumia SGR Cargo ama la?




SGR Cargo may not be cheaper, agents say!





Quote:
It will cost Sh50,000 to ferry a 20-foot container from the port to the Nairobi Inland Container Depot (ICD), according to Kenya Railways.
Truckers charge between Sh60,000 and Sh80,000 to ferry the same container from the port to Nairobi, depending on the weight and type of cargo.
“We have been paying the same rate to transport a container via Rift Valley Railways and really, if you look at other costs before goods are delivered at your door step, it might necessarily not be cheaper,” said William Ojonyo, the Kenya International Freight and Warehousing Association (Kifwa) chairman elect


This is a very pedestrian argument no wonder very many truckers are making losses.

Paying 100 shillings to travel in 3 days and paying 100 shillings to travel in 1 day doesn't have the same cost implication. One is definitely more expensive than the other even though the travel cost portion seems to be the same.

Will DHL, Bollore, Fedex among other logistics and cargo handling firms prefer road transport to SGR?

Any rational importer or business man will rather spend 10K more to have the cargo in 1-3 days rather than spend 10K less to have the cargo in 5-10 days. That is business sense!


@Swenani.
With all due respect, stick to matters 'fish & airport'.
You got better luck there.

I am a businessman & a direct consumer of trucking from Mombasa to Nairobi.
If you have your 40ft container loaded in the evening in Mombasa, less than 16 hours (between 4am & 10am), you will have it at your doorstep,in Nairobi.
SGR would cost give or take 100k+20k=110k. Add that to the fact that you have 'waiting time'(not all consignments are bound for Nairobi's ICD & some vessels will be discharging very few containers) for it to be loaded on the wagons in Mombasa, then clearing time once it gets to Nairobi's ICD.

Hiyo container itachukua 5-10 days on road kwani inatoka Timbuktu?

About Bollore,DHL,Fedex etc, give them a call & find out how much it will cost you to transport the same 40ft container from Mombasa. There's a reason why they serve 'special' clients only.



Your argument is no longer pedestrian but something else.

1. My understanding is that clearing at the ICD will be similar to the clearing procedure at the port of MSA or the CFS hence the clearing time at either the port or ICD is a non factor-correct me if i'm wrong
2. That calculation of 16 hrs is too optimistic- optimistic scenerios are never considered in any business decision. For SGR, the most likely travel time will be 8 hrs or we can even take your optimistic time to be the SGR pessimistic time.Driving to Mombasa in a private car takes between 7-8hrs in a normal situation, how on earth will a truck which struggles to do 50KM take 16 hrs in a normal day
3. SGR will lead to a reduction in storage costs since you can easily repackage and consolidate cargo at Nairobi ICD during the free storage window period for redistribution to various parts of the country but for trucks, it means either repacking in Mombasa(which might lead to extra transport costs) or repacking in Nairobi before distribution leading to additional warehousing costs.
4. Have you factored in the delays in truck offloading at Nairobi due to the which might lead to additional transport or warehousing costs? With SGR ICD, you do not have to worry about the delay in offloading since you can store your goods at the ICD for free as your book your cargo for offloading.How many free days to truckers provide for offloading once your cargo arrives at NBO?
5. On the delays of offloading due to different cargo destination locations, do you know why 1,620 wagons were ordered for? It does't mean the train has to wait cargo destined to the SGR station to be offloaded before proceeding to the ICD, It can easily detach the wagons at the SGR station and proceed to the ICD with the wagons destined to ICD.
6. Will Bollore, Fedex, DHL etc hire truckers(since most truckers depend on this firms) for their transport needs between MSA and NBI or will they use SGR?

Trucking only makes business sense to truckers and small scale traders who import japanase vehicle even the mitumba traders will opt for SGR since 1 tonne of cargo to Nairobi will costs 32K.



@Swenani.

As I said, with all due respect! Stick to what you know best.

Yesterday (Wednesday) as I was typing, my container was being loaded on a truck in Mombasa.
Today (Thursday) by 10am, I was done offloading less than 16 hrs later, here in Nairobi.
Please note, this was the third one since SGR was launched. More like the norm, not isolated case.

I am talking from experience, not wishful thinking.
It has been like that for close to 9 years, except a few incidents.

Your number 3,4 & 5 ,I'm lost. Like you can stay with a container after discharge from the vessel, indefinitely. There's demurrage.
ICD is like a single CFS, you have several in Mombasa easing movement.

Last one, at 32k per ton, how much will a 29 ton container cost?
Swenani
#872 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 8:32:39 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
mkeiy wrote:
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
Swenani wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
harrydre wrote:
Some wonder why Mwafrika is behind in everything, it's some kind of reasoning I see here. These people opposing infrastructure expansion, go out there, visit the world we are eons behind.

Heck even if the SGR is double the cost, can you think outside the box on the pros, time saved, reduced congestion, quick flow of goods & services, roads damage, amount of cargo one round of train will transport etc etc. Nini mbaya na watu?? Lets review 1 Yr later and see. I recall people made noise on Thika Highway, these days wamenyamaza!




Heck, business is about profits and the margins are highest using road cargo for now, ceteris paribus.

At the moment, trucking on the road is cheaper & convenient.

I am wondering people who are not direct consumers of this SGR Cargo, are lecturing others.


@harrydre. As it is;
It's not saving time (congestion at ICD)& delays at Terminal 2 in Msa. Hence no such quick flow of goods.
It's expensive.

These are the ONLY major factors a consumer (exporter or importer) will consider. Once they are fixed, we won't have reason to use road. I will benefit directly. Why would I oppose such a thing?

Stuff like road congestion, amount of cargo moved per trip etc, those are for the masses.
Masses do not transport cargo, individuals and businesses do.
Fortunately, in business,it's more about business sense, unlike in our politics were other factors reign supreme.

At the moment,
Only @Essyk is seeing it as a consumer. She's going to try transporting using SGR Cargo, I am sticking to the road.
Acheni siaza za Jubilee/Nasa, hii ni Biashara;
@harrydre @Muchknow @Murchr @hardwood, what are you doing about it? Mwatumia SGR Cargo ama la?




SGR Cargo may not be cheaper, agents say!





Quote:
It will cost Sh50,000 to ferry a 20-foot container from the port to the Nairobi Inland Container Depot (ICD), according to Kenya Railways.
Truckers charge between Sh60,000 and Sh80,000 to ferry the same container from the port to Nairobi, depending on the weight and type of cargo.
“We have been paying the same rate to transport a container via Rift Valley Railways and really, if you look at other costs before goods are delivered at your door step, it might necessarily not be cheaper,” said William Ojonyo, the Kenya International Freight and Warehousing Association (Kifwa) chairman elect


This is a very pedestrian argument no wonder very many truckers are making losses.

Paying 100 shillings to travel in 3 days and paying 100 shillings to travel in 1 day doesn't have the same cost implication. One is definitely more expensive than the other even though the travel cost portion seems to be the same.

Will DHL, Bollore, Fedex among other logistics and cargo handling firms prefer road transport to SGR?

Any rational importer or business man will rather spend 10K more to have the cargo in 1-3 days rather than spend 10K less to have the cargo in 5-10 days. That is business sense!


@Swenani.
With all due respect, stick to matters 'fish & airport'.
You got better luck there.

I am a businessman & a direct consumer of trucking from Mombasa to Nairobi.
If you have your 40ft container loaded in the evening in Mombasa, less than 16 hours (between 4am & 10am), you will have it at your doorstep,in Nairobi.
SGR would cost give or take 100k+20k=110k. Add that to the fact that you have 'waiting time'(not all consignments are bound for Nairobi's ICD & some vessels will be discharging very few containers) for it to be loaded on the wagons in Mombasa, then clearing time once it gets to Nairobi's ICD.

Hiyo container itachukua 5-10 days on road kwani inatoka Timbuktu?

About Bollore,DHL,Fedex etc, give them a call & find out how much it will cost you to transport the same 40ft container from Mombasa. There's a reason why they serve 'special' clients only.



Your argument is no longer pedestrian but something else.

1. My understanding is that clearing at the ICD will be similar to the clearing procedure at the port of MSA or the CFS hence the clearing time at either the port or ICD is a non factor-correct me if i'm wrong
2. That calculation of 16 hrs is too optimistic- optimistic scenerios are never considered in any business decision. For SGR, the most likely travel time will be 8 hrs or we can even take your optimistic time to be the SGR pessimistic time.Driving to Mombasa in a private car takes between 7-8hrs in a normal situation, how on earth will a truck which struggles to do 50KM take 16 hrs in a normal day
3. SGR will lead to a reduction in storage costs since you can easily repackage and consolidate cargo at Nairobi ICD during the free storage window period for redistribution to various parts of the country but for trucks, it means either repacking in Mombasa(which might lead to extra transport costs) or repacking in Nairobi before distribution leading to additional warehousing costs.
4. Have you factored in the delays in truck offloading at Nairobi due to the which might lead to additional transport or warehousing costs? With SGR ICD, you do not have to worry about the delay in offloading since you can store your goods at the ICD for free as your book your cargo for offloading.How many free days to truckers provide for offloading once your cargo arrives at NBO?
5. On the delays of offloading due to different cargo destination locations, do you know why 1,620 wagons were ordered for? It does't mean the train has to wait cargo destined to the SGR station to be offloaded before proceeding to the ICD, It can easily detach the wagons at the SGR station and proceed to the ICD with the wagons destined to ICD.
6. Will Bollore, Fedex, DHL etc hire truckers(since most truckers depend on this firms) for their transport needs between MSA and NBI or will they use SGR?

Trucking only makes business sense to truckers and small scale traders who import japanase vehicle even the mitumba traders will opt for SGR since 1 tonne of cargo to Nairobi will costs 32K.



@Swenani.

As I said, with all due respect! Stick to what you know best.

Yesterday (Wednesday) as I was typing, my container was being loaded on a truck in Mombasa.
Today (Thursday) by 10am, I was done offloading less than 16 hrs later, here in Nairobi.
Please note, this was the third one since SGR was launched. More like the norm, not isolated case.

I am talking from experience, not wishful thinking.
It has been like that for close to 9 years, except a few incidents.

Your number 3,4 & 5 ,I'm lost. Like you can stay with a container after discharge from the vessel, indefinitely. There's demurrage.
ICD is like a single CFS, you have several in Mombasa easing movement.

Last one, at 32k per ton, how much will a 29 ton container cost?


I see you've decided to prosper in ignorance.

Last one, at 32k per ton, how much will a 29 ton container cost? You very well understand that not all cargo is containerized. So for your 29 tonner CONTAINER the rates for 20TEU and 40TEU will apply.

32K applies to non containerized cargo.

As I said, trucking between Msa and Nairobi will only make sense to small scale traders like you and truckers
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Impunity
#873 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 9:27:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
Rahatupu wrote:
hardwood wrote:
SGR fully booked until next week. They should introduce another train.

http://www.the-star.co.k...d-celebrations_c1583684

@hardwood @impunity,why can't these trains make more than 1 trip per day.....Eg morning, afternoon and evening?

Coz we have dimwits running the railways.
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hardwood
#874 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 9:42:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Maybe it might not be significantly cheaper for an individual importer to use SGR but we should look at the bigger picture coz it is definately cheaper for the country and society. i.e Less wear on our roads saving taxpayers billions, fewer accidents on the road meaning fewer families will lose loved ones and bread winners, less pollution coz there are fewer diesel-fume belching trucks on the road, reduced disease/AIDS incidence since fewer truckers will be eating fish, reduced insurance costs for cargo using SGR etc etc. Also the jam caused by trucks hapo mariakani must be costing the country billions.

Its just the way kenyas always say we should remove 14 seaters from nairobi roads, and have bigger buses or light rail. Of course @mkeiy & Co. will say that it would be more expensive for commuters since he can no longer be dropped at "his gate" but overall such a move would be better for the city and the economy.
Lolest!
#875 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 9:50:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Impunity wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
hardwood wrote:
SGR fully booked until next week. They should introduce another train.

http://www.the-star.co.k...d-celebrations_c1583684

@hardwood @impunity,why can't these trains make more than 1 trip per day.....Eg morning, afternoon and evening?

Coz we have dimwits running the railways.

They had said they are planning to introduce an evening trip.
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mkeiy
#876 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 11:38:03 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
Swenani wrote:


I see you've decided to prosper in ignorance.

Last one, at 32k per ton, how much will a 29 ton container cost? You very well understand that not all cargo is containerized. So for your 29 tonner CONTAINER the rates for 20TEU and 40TEU will apply.

32K applies to non containerized cargo.

As I said, trucking between Msa and Nairobi will only make sense to small scale traders like you and truckers






@Swenani.
We, the small scale traders, we are happy with the road.
It's cheaper, faster & convenient,at the moment. So we stick to the road.

But the thread is not about the small Vs the big. It's about SGR. SGR that small & big importers are charged a fee for every shipment. The big entities, are known to get special rates & terms,to live large. That ain't good for the country.

Train has economies of scale, it should be cheaper to use SGR, than the road.
Why is our SGR cargo being more expensive?

Secondly, ICD, like all other CFS's ,ICD is a restricted area. I don't know how you will store & repackage your cargo there, at will.
It's a yard,not a bonded warehouse.
If everyone was allowed to strip their containers, that would lead to a very serious security breach. Cases of empty containers would be the norm.
It is a restricted area for security reasons. That's why every truck/lorry going in needs a D O. For the repackaged cargo from full load you are talking about, What will be the cargo description on the DO?
With loose cargo you are allowed to strip a container . How do you strip full cargo? How do you get it the several bits released?

Thirdly ,on average, from the time a container is discharged, you have 10 days to return the empty. Which means on average, after the 10th day, you start paying demurrage . 1-5 days are wasted at the port.

Long & short of it, SGR cargo is very good for the country. But at the moment, they are overcharging to cover for inefficiency & corruption. It's a parastatal we are talking about here.

The big entities & NGOs go with the 'established', then pass on the cost. We should not have SGR Cargo for just the big. It should be for all.

Moving on, if SGR can bring on a private entity to compete with KR operated wagons, you would see those rates come down. Different players on the same track.
But then again,SGR is KR.
mkeiy
#877 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 11:46:58 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Maybe it might not be significantly cheaper for an individual importer to use SGR but we should look at the bigger picture coz it is definately cheaper for the country and society. i.e Less wear on our roads saving taxpayers billions, fewer accidents on the road meaning fewer families will lose loved ones and bread winners, less pollution coz there are fewer diesel-fume belching trucks on the road, reduced disease/AIDS incidence since fewer truckers will be eating fish, reduced insurance costs for cargo using SGR etc etc. Also the jam caused by trucks hapo mariakani must be costing the country billions.

Its just the way kenyas always say we should remove 14 seaters from nairobi roads, and have bigger buses or light rail. Of course @mkeiy & Co. will say that it would be more expensive for commuters since he can no longer be dropped at "his gate" but overall such a move would be better for the city and the economy.




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@hardwood. I have no issue with SGR passenger. It is cheaper,faster but somewhat inconvenient. The inconveniences have been brought to the fore.

Do you think SGR passenger would have been this busy if the rates were higher than buses?

My issue is with SGR Cargo . It's more expensive to the individual consumer,more us who cannot negotiate special rates, TC.

2012
#878 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 12:26:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
mkeiy wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Maybe it might not be significantly cheaper for an individual importer to use SGR but we should look at the bigger picture coz it is definately cheaper for the country and society. i.e Less wear on our roads saving taxpayers billions, fewer accidents on the road meaning fewer families will lose loved ones and bread winners, less pollution coz there are fewer diesel-fume belching trucks on the road, reduced disease/AIDS incidence since fewer truckers will be eating fish, reduced insurance costs for cargo using SGR etc etc. Also the jam caused by trucks hapo mariakani must be costing the country billions.

Its just the way kenyas always say we should remove 14 seaters from nairobi roads, and have bigger buses or light rail. Of course @mkeiy & Co. will say that it would be more expensive for commuters since he can no longer be dropped at "his gate" but overall such a move would be better for the city and the economy.




Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
@hardwood. I have no issue with SGR passenger. It is cheaper,faster but somewhat inconvenient. The inconveniences have been brought to the fore.

Do you think SGR passenger would have been this busy if the rates were higher than buses?

My issue is with SGR Cargo . It's more expensive to the individual consumer,more us who cannot negotiate special rates, TC.



SGR first class is more expensive than the buses and I'm told it's so far enjoying an average daily occupancy of 90%.

BBI will solve it
:)
Rahatupu
#879 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 12:26:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Impunity wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
hardwood wrote:
SGR fully booked until next week. They should introduce another train.

http://www.the-star.co.k...d-celebrations_c1583684

@hardwood @impunity,why can't these trains make more than 1 trip per day.....Eg morning, afternoon and evening?

Coz we have dimwits running the railways.


I'd suspected the same. BTW what became of an operator to run the railway? Heard bids were invited.
washiku
#880 Posted : Friday, June 23, 2017 12:40:08 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 13,095
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