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Presidential results final say ; constituency RO or IEBC HQ
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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kaka2za wrote:The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get.
Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! I thought this has been the practice all through! Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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kaka2za wrote:kaka2za wrote:The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get.
Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! I thought this has been the practice all through! It's been the practise. However, previously, if PO in some nondescript outpost added a zero or two at the end, chebukati would have had a chance to correct the mess. As of now he's reduced to a conduit. But really crux of the matter is someone believes he will always be rigged out at kicc now, he wants to toss the coin...I.e rig at the mashinani and have no chance for iebc to correct the mess
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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limanika wrote:kaka2za wrote:kaka2za wrote:The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get.
Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! I thought this has been the practice all through! It's been the practise. However, previously, if PO in some nondescript outpost added a zero or two at the end, chebukati would have had a chance to correct the mess. As of now he's reduced to a conduit. But really crux of the matter is someone believes he will always be rigged out at kicc now, he wants to toss the coin...I.e rig at the mashinani and have no chance for iebc to correct the mess The centre referee should be the only one with the whistle. Apana linesmen! But goal line technology should apply 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Jump-steady wrote:limanika wrote:kaka2za wrote:kaka2za wrote:The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get.
Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! I thought this has been the practice all through! It's been the practise. However, previously, if PO in some nondescript outpost added a zero or two at the end, chebukati would have had a chance to correct the mess. As of now he's reduced to a conduit. But really crux of the matter is someone believes he will always be rigged out at kicc now, he wants to toss the coin...I.e rig at the mashinani and have no chance for iebc to correct the mess The centre referee should be the only one with the whistle. Apana linesmen! But goal line technology should apply To be fair..we arent saying IEBC should alter the results...but they should be able to verify the results as required by the constitution. What is verification? If for particular constituency IEBC finds the number of actual votes exceeds number of registered voters. shouldn't they check results from all polling stations in that constituency, and pick out where the anomaly is...The final announcement should include outcome of the verification exercise. And interested political party reps should be part of this process every step of the way...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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After the Machakos NASWA fiasco, we will not even need this gallery play!!! In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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limanika wrote:Jump-steady wrote:limanika wrote:kaka2za wrote:kaka2za wrote:The more I read the legal arguments the more confused I get.
Senior Counsel Orengo argued that the PO will announce the final results but Chebukati will declare the winner! I thought this has been the practice all through! It's been the practise. However, previously, if PO in some nondescript outpost added a zero or two at the end, chebukati would have had a chance to correct the mess. As of now he's reduced to a conduit. But really crux of the matter is someone believes he will always be rigged out at kicc now, he wants to toss the coin...I.e rig at the mashinani and have no chance for iebc to correct the mess The centre referee should be the only one with the whistle. Apana linesmen! But goal line technology should apply To be fair..we arent saying IEBC should alter the results...but they should be able to verify the results as required by the constitution. What is verification? If for particular constituency IEBC finds the number of actual votes exceeds number of registered voters. shouldn't they check results from all polling stations in that constituency, and pick out where the anomaly is...The final announcement should include outcome of the verification exercise. And interested political party reps should be part of this process every step of the way... We seem to be 100% agreement. Funny we all seem to understand what the word verify means but lawyers are going round and round discussing the same.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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I am not a registered voter but the more time I spent online, the more confused I become about this issue. Here is a sample that gives me a headache. Rink
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,718
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It is a whole new world. Until January 20, 2017 there was global policeman in the name of the US who could threaten consequences for governance misconduct. The US, UK and Europe have enough on their plate to put any pressure on Kenya.
We have no choice but to completely trust our institutions. IEBC will announce whoever they think wins. The supreme court will make their ruling should a case be presented to them. The third thing which is different this time is that the president will be at complete liberty without worrying about consequences to use all the powers at his disposal to quell unrest should any arise. If Raila wins he must win on the ballot or in the supreme court because if it comes to mass action UK has the upper hand because he has the police.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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aemathenge wrote:I am not a registered voter but the more time I spent online, the more confused I become about this issue. Here is a sample that gives me a headache. Rink Why would you get headaches over an event you have chosen not to participate in? Your vote is your voice. You should register and then decide to vote or not. Your voice is much stronger if you reduce the turn out that when you do not even exist in the count.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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2012 wrote:aemathenge wrote:I am not a registered voter but the more time I spent online, the more confused I become about this issue. Here is a sample that gives me a headache. Rink Why would you get headaches over an event you have chosen not to participate in? Your vote is your voice. You should register and then decide to vote or not. Your voice is much stronger if you reduce the turn out that when you do not even exist in the count. The 2017 erections are an avenue to make money for me. My clients, most on opposing teams, will work with me only if I am NOT registered as a voter. And as you so aptly put it, Everyone has (I have) a right to be stupid;. My headache arises from the clarity with which players can deduce their opponents will rig but fail to remove the specks on their own eyes.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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Appeal dismissed.
Court of appeal finds no merit in the appeal by IEBC.
Let elections end at the polling station.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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FRM2011 wrote:
Appeal dismissed.
Court of appeal finds no merit in the appeal by IEBC.
Let elections end at the polling station.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/1/2008 Posts: 1,098
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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FRM2011 wrote:
Appeal dismissed.
Court of appeal finds no merit in the appeal by IEBC.
Let elections end at the polling station.
IEBC can still go to supreme court for interpretation of what 'verification' means
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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In the words of the judges, " IEBC is a corporate body. The chairman of the commision is not IEBC. All officers including the presiding officer at a polling station constitute the IEBC". Now lets see which R.O. will be unable to add-up the results from less than 100 polling stations.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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limanika wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Appeal dismissed.
Court of appeal finds no merit in the appeal by IEBC.
Let elections end at the polling station.
IEBC can still go to supreme court for interpretation of what 'verification' means Sigh...let them just comply. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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FRM2011 wrote:In the words of the judges, " IEBC is a corporate body. The chairman of the commision is not IEBC. All officers including the presiding officer at a polling station constitute the IEBC". Now lets see which R.O. will be unable to add-up the results from less than 100 polling stations. I don't see how or even why IEBC was debating this issue. What they got instead was a whip from the court...They were effectively told to shut up and do their job. Their job being to count what they recieve and not send people to bomas. The chairman was told his work is a bean counter, not an arbiter. The court is the arbiter. Awache nyef nyef ahesabu tu. The whole world over, results are tabulated at the polling station. I just don't understand why anyone would think otherwise. So now we are creating jobs for 40kx 10 young people in polling stations. As for the returning officer, the judgement was very clear. You are responsible for anything that goes wrong in your polling station. For an election appeal, the appeal shall fall back on the RO. But some RO's love raira and uhuru so much they may actually decide to rig at the poll station. lol... Why was anyone fighting this ruling? I don't understand anyone care to explain to me? By the way, which appeal against your so called justice odinga has the gov't won? Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,929
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RO must be compitent people, this time round you change the slips, wewe NDAAANI NDAAANI NDAAANI kabisa. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/19/2015 Posts: 2,871 Location: hapo
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Angelica _ann wrote:RO must be compitent people, this time round you change the slips, wewe NDAAANI NDAAANI NDAAANI kabisa. Actually the court asked why the IEBC chairman doesn't trust his own employees to give him the correct results. I mean this was one of those rulings that shall be taught in law school for years. It was a total bashing of the appelant. To the point where the court had to explain to the appelant that legally he's not an appelant but a person in office. Ghai! On the same day, Raira was told not to waste the court's time thinking that the August 8th date can be changed. The ballot papers shall be printed apende asipende....Who wants to wager that this case also goes to hell where it deserves to be? It seems that the courts have now got the balls to fight these worthless politicians who create a mess in this country. Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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alma1 wrote:FRM2011 wrote:[quote=Jump-steady][quote=FRM2011]
Appeal dismissed.
. I don't see how or even why IEBC was debating this issue. What they got instead was a whip from the court...They were effectively told to shut up and do their job. Their job being to count what they recieve and not send people to bomas. The chairman was told his work is a bean counter, not an arbiter. The court is the arbiter. Awache nyef nyef ahesabu tu. The whole world over, results are tabulated at the polling station. I just don't understand why anyone would think otherwise. So now we are creating jobs for 40kx 10 young people in polling stations. As for the returning officer, the judgement was very clear. You are responsible for anything that goes wrong in your polling station. For an election appeal, the appeal shall fall back on the RO. But some RO's love raira and uhuru so much they may actually decide to rig at the poll station. lol... Why was anyone fighting this ruling? I don't understand anyone care to explain to me? By the way, which appeal against your so called justice odinga has the gov't won? considering our history of impunity, this is perhaps the one judgement that will change our elections forever. The focus is not even on the R.O. His job is so simple. Receive form 34 from each polling station signed by a presiding officer, add them up, fill in form 36 and announce the results. It is simply impossible to make a mistake. And very many people will have worked out the figures anyway. The key guy is the Presiding officer. Typically a primary school principal or deputy. He has no incentive to rig. He knows he is a small fish. He knows he is the easiest guy to sacrifice. And all he wants is to collect his 30K from IEBC and go back to his teaching job. A typical polling station has 700 voters. If you want to get 100,000, you have to inflate votes by 50 per station in 2,000 stations. You have to deal with over 2,000 presiding officers, their deputies, 8 clerks and the agents plus cops/NYS guys present. The cost of rigging will be astronomical and you have tens of thousands of co-conspirators. Practically impossible. With Chebukati, 1B will do the job between him and his ICT guys and you are home and dry.
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