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SGR Progress thus far
FRM2011
#641 Posted : Wednesday, May 31, 2017 11:48:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
essyk wrote:
It's the Weight and not size of a container that determines its price.

20ft light can cost as little as 50k of its co-loaded (2×20ft)on a 40ft truck
Same applies if the trucker is doing a return trip..say he dropped a container at mombasa and has no other load to carry back to nbo.
20ft heavy will carry the price of a 40ft because it cannot be co-loaded.


Minimum Transport cost for a heavy 20ft and 40ft= 80k from MBA to NBO. ( sasa uhuru ameharibu hapa☺

We cannot rule out the truckers because rail will deliver to ICD and client has to make othet transport arrangements to door.Approx 15-25k within city limits.
Now the main challenge with rail freight are delays encountered during wagon allocations at the port.
If KPA fail to deliver on their part the train will not be of any help to business people.

The people who will feel the pinch are the bus companies esp those with Kungunis.



Thanks for this. Can tell this is your territory. The tariff announced today is 50K for a 20ft container or USD 7cts/ton/KM.

For the normal 40ft container with 28 tonnes, the cost is 92K. Then you add 25K for the last mile.

On pricing, SGR can't beat truckers unless govt subsidizes.

Wish we could keep the politics out of this debate.
essyk
#642 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 2:07:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
KPA are the determining factor on matters freight.

Reduced costs=increased cargo volumes at ICD =more trucks within the city.

With this comes the demand for road expansion to cater for heavy truck traffic to/from icd,parking space and more container weighing stations for export cargo.
If that fails to happen.. your guess is as good as mine .

So yeah go ahead and invest in truck biz.
I guess now is the moment.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
murchr
#643 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 2:13:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
For those who believe so much on myths.

Babu says that the project was to cost $290B per the nusu mkate govt. Lets look at the facts

Daily Nation September 9 2009 wrote:
The proposed construction of the standard gauge railway line is aimed at making Kenya an investment hub.

The rail that will cost nearly Sh320 billion will also reduce the cost of transport, Kenya Railways Managing Director Nduva Muli has said

The Mombasa-Nairobi section of the line is expected to be complete by 2013 while the Nairobi-Kisumu- Malaba one is projected to end by 2016.


http://www.nation.co.ke/...1056/655200/-/umt89w/-/

the EastAfrican Sep 22 2012 wrote:
The railway line, which is to be built according to Chinese railway design standards, will carry freight trains at speeds of up to 80 kilometres per hour, and passenger trains at up to 120 kilometres per hour.

It will be completed in five years, with the cost of the track alone estimated at a massive $2.6 billion. Total cost of Nairobi to Mombasa is $3.8 Billion dollars translating to Sh 327 Billion.


Could that be the amount babu is quoting?

Quote:
Additional income

Kenya Railways expects to raise even more money from selling the assets of the existing railway line.

The assumption in the financing model is that, once the standard gauge railway is completed, Kenya Railways will receive a salvage value of $41 million through disposal of the assets of the existing railway — locomotive wagons, railway tracks and sleepers.





http://www.theeastafrica...tem-0-oeutu3/index.html

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
murchr
#644 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 2:25:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
essyk wrote:
KPA are the determining factor on matters freight.

Reduced costs=increased cargo volumes at ICD =more trucks within the city.

With this comes the demand for road expansion to cater for heavy truck traffic to/from icd,parking space and more container weighing stations for export cargo.
If that fails to happen.. your guess is as good as mine .

So yeah go ahead and invest in truck biz.
I guess now is the moment.



The market is already crowded by the existing truckers and after 2-3yrs, the will be out of business once the Madaraka express gets to Malaba.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Much Know
#645 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 8:36:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,559
Raila: " I will jail Uhuru for SGR". Raila phobia just increased x20 Wow!!!! Shame on you Wivu mingi ya nini? How does Raira account for his 10 years, only 26billion Thika highway, where did the other KES 2.57 trillion go? you guessed it, wasted through corruption by relatives of the corrupt garment! Everyone expects much more from Uhuru than Raira!
Meru Holiness
mkeiy
#646 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 10:09:06 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
essyk wrote:
It's the Weight and not size of a container that determines its price.

20ft light can cost as little as 50k of its co-loaded (2×20ft)on a 40ft truck
Same applies if the trucker is doing a return trip..say he dropped a container at mombasa and has no other load to carry back to nbo.
20ft heavy will carry the price of a 40ft because it cannot be co-loaded.


Minimum Transport cost for a heavy 20ft and 40ft= 80k from MBA to NBO. ( sasa uhuru ameharibu hapa☺

We cannot rule out the truckers because rail will deliver to ICD and client has to make othet transport arrangements to door.Approx 15-25k within city limits.
Now the main challenge with rail freight are delays encountered during wagon allocations at the port.
If KPA fail to deliver on their part the train will not be of any help to business people.

The people who will feel the pinch are the bus companies esp those with Kungunis.



@essyk. Hapo hujatwambia ukweli.

Of the two variables, it's size first, then weight.
A 40ft container the minimum it will cost is 80k,whether weighing 17tons or 27tons. If it goes above 27 tons, top up ya 'road' unaongezea.

If doing a single but heavy 20ft container, hapo sasa ni mambo na weight. You will pay as if you are trucking a 40ft container.
After all, the running costs & profit margin will be relatively the same,whether a 40ft or a single but heavy 20ft load.
newfarer
#647 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 10:18:55 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
saw a video of the train emitting quite a chunk of smoke.kwani sida iko wapi?uzee ama?
punda amecheka
mkeiy
#648 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 10:37:49 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
essyk wrote:
KPA are the determining factor on matters freight.

Reduced costs=increased cargo volumes at ICD =more trucks within the city.

With this comes the demand for road expansion to cater for heavy truck traffic to/from icd,parking space and more container weighing stations for export cargo.
If that fails to happen.. your guess is as good as mine .

So yeah go ahead and invest in truck biz.
I guess now is the moment.



The market is already crowded by the existing truckers and after 2-3yrs, the will be out of business once the Madaraka express gets to Malaba.


They may reduce but not going out of biz completely,for two reasons.
1. Local trucking from the inland depots.
2. Trucking from Msa to Nai since I expect bottle necks the port & at ICD. Remember not all shipments meant for ICD will be discharged at the new terminal in Mombasa. Getting shipments meant for ICD from the different terminals,onto the SGR train, it will be taking time. Clearing at ICD, loading on trucks & return of empties, I think the infrastructure will be overwhelmed.
essyk
#649 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 10:58:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
Mkeiy ,if you read my post well you will realise that we are speaking the same thing.

2x20 LIGHT(co-load)=1x40= I TRUCK=80k
1x20 HEAVY(single load)= 1 TRUCK = 80k
1x 40 (regardless of weight)= 1TRUCK= 80k


Extra weight attracts a fine.

As a transporter you can decide to charge as little as 50k for 1x20 on the RETURN LEG to Mombasa/ NBO instead of going back empty after drop off.

Ama namna gani my fren.
No loss on you.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Much Know
#650 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:01:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,559
Pro's seriously outweigh the con's whether economics wise, logistics wise, e.t.c, in any case it gives flexibility and choice, the rest will be dealt with by the invisible hand, if you fill the cargo with UNGA from the port, people will sleep better, it can bring only unga to lower the price faster supply, leaving the issue raised of toilet paper, thieves can eat 'more bigger' ugali and snooze off instead of going to steal phones and so on if we were to make a complete analysis before saying SGR is very good for Kenya!
Meru Holiness
mkeiy
#651 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:12:41 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
essyk wrote:
Mkeiy ,if you read my post well you will realise that we are speaking the same thing.

2x20 LIGHT(co-load)=1x40= I TRUCK=80k
1x20 HEAVY(single load)= 1 TRUCK = 80k

Extra weight attracts a fine.

Au namna gani my fren.




Hapo sawa.
Chunga @Swenani asilete shida ukiitana'my fren'hapa. Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
2012
#652 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:15:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Bus firms fault govt for not consulting them on SGR fares

"Mombasa Raha and Buscar director Abubakar Said says they were surprised when Mr Kenyatta announced the low fares, given that bus companies typically charge passengers between Sh900 and Sh2000 fare from Nairobi to Mombasa.
“The president should have considered us because we have invested heavily in the transport sector. It will really affect us, we will definitely run out of business. The president's price (Sh700) is very cheap,” he said."


Have these guys been living in Mars or what? The whole point of putting up new technology is to increase efficiency and lower costs? This is called disruption, it creates opportunities while getting rid of others. It's like trying to plead a case for the typewriter or the Telkom landline.

May be they can now use their buses to ferry SGR commuters to the station and home.

BBI will solve it
:)
newfarer
#653 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:30:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
why would anyone choose to go to Mombasa at 1200 for 8 hrs instead of 700 for 5hrs m-express?
punda amecheka
masukuma
#654 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:30:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
I don't get some people... watu wanalalamika na SGR iko hapa already Eish! Bickering about the price and usefulness of SGR will not help anyone! Iko hapa already! Ni kama Thika road... iko hapa...haiendi mahali!! Start getting some utility out of it! Si some people in 2007 were complaining eti in 40 something years of independence hatujawahi ongeza hata inch moja ya reli? Sasa iko hapa mnaanza kulalamika bei? Reli sio plot ruai!!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mkeiy
#655 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:02:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
I don't get some people... watu wanalalamika na SGR iko hapa already Eish! Bickering about the price and usefulness of SGR will not help anyone! Iko hapa already! Ni kama Thika road... iko hapa...haiendi mahali!! Start getting some utility out of it! Si some people in 2007 were complaining eti in 40 something years of independence hatujawahi ongeza hata inch moja ya reli? Sasa iko hapa mnaanza kulalamika bei? Reli sio plot ruai!!


@Masukuma, chills bana. Ni Madaraka Day.

Have people complained, or, are they highlighting some issue,PRICING? What's wrong with that?

If the king is naked, he ought to be told so.


Here is why. SGR-cargo-pricing

according to Business daily, a 20ft container @50k to ICD, then another 10k - 20k approx trucking to the door. Total=60k70k.Compare that to using road from Msa to your door(not beyond Nai) at 50k.

For a 40ft container weighing 29tons, going by Business daily, 7 Shs per ton per km. This container will cost me;
7shs*29ton*450km=91,350Shs to ICD.
add another 15k-20k to my door to make it 106k - 121k.

On the road, I get the same at 90k,to my door.
As I write this, I have one on the road from Msa, what would persuade me to use SGR?
Ama mambo ya economic sense tutupilie mbali?
Lolest!
#656 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:20:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
KR now says there'll be 2 trains leaving at around 9am. The express one and ya mlengo

No other trips will be there for the time being. No night train.

You can only buy tickets at the station. No pre-booking
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#657 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:20:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
mkeiy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I don't get some people... watu wanalalamika na SGR iko hapa already Eish! Bickering about the price and usefulness of SGR will not help anyone! Iko hapa already! Ni kama Thika road... iko hapa...haiendi mahali!! Start getting some utility out of it! Si some people in 2007 were complaining eti in 40 something years of independence hatujawahi ongeza hata inch moja ya reli? Sasa iko hapa mnaanza kulalamika bei? Reli sio plot ruai!!


@Masukuma, chills bana. Ni Madaraka Day.

Have people complained, or, are they highlighting some issue,PRICING? What's wrong with that?

If the king is naked, he ought to be told so.


Here is why. SGR-cargo-pricing

according to Business daily, a 20ft container @50k to ICD, then another 10k - 20k approx trucking to the door. Total=60k70k.Compare that to using road from Msa to your door(not beyond Nai) at 50k.

For a 40ft container weighing 29tons, going by Business daily, 7 Shs per ton per km. This container will cost me;
7shs*29ton*450km=91,350Shs to ICD.
add another 15k-20k to my door to make it 106k - 121k.

On the road, I get the same at 90k,to my door.
As I write this, I have one on the road from Msa, what would persuade me to use SGR?
Ama mambo ya economic sense tutupilie mbali?

I think the issue of 'pricing' should be debated on the angle of 'use' as opposed to 'the cost of building it'. The last one does not matter! The cost of use is a more 'useful' angle of debate but it's all up to customers! Si wache tuone kama watu hawatatumia reli kubeba mizigo! ukitaka kungoja mzigo itoke Mombasa by road - ni sawa! kuna wale watabeba na reli depending na ni nini hiyo inabebwa! wacha tuone!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
thuks
#658 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:31:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
masukuma wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
masukuma wrote:
I don't get some people... watu wanalalamika na SGR iko hapa already Eish! Bickering about the price and usefulness of SGR will not help anyone! Iko hapa already! Ni kama Thika road... iko hapa...haiendi mahali!! Start getting some utility out of it! Si some people in 2007 were complaining eti in 40 something years of independence hatujawahi ongeza hata inch moja ya reli? Sasa iko hapa mnaanza kulalamika bei? Reli sio plot ruai!!


@Masukuma, chills bana. Ni Madaraka Day.

Have people complained, or, are they highlighting some issue,PRICING? What's wrong with that?

If the king is naked, he ought to be told so.


Here is why. SGR-cargo-pricing

according to Business daily, a 20ft container @50k to ICD, then another 10k - 20k approx trucking to the door. Total=60k70k.Compare that to using road from Msa to your door(not beyond Nai) at 50k.

For a 40ft container weighing 29tons, going by Business daily, 7 Shs per ton per km. This container will cost me;
7shs*29ton*450km=91,350Shs to ICD.
add another 15k-20k to my door to make it 106k - 121k.

On the road, I get the same at 90k,to my door.
As I write this, I have one on the road from Msa, what would persuade me to use SGR?
Ama mambo ya economic sense tutupilie mbali?

I think the issue of 'pricing' should be debated on the angle of 'use' as opposed to 'the cost of building it'. The last one does not matter! The cost of use is a more 'useful' angle of debate but it's all up to customers! Si wache tuone kama watu hawatatumia reli kubeba mizigo! ukitaka kungoja mzigo itoke Mombasa by road - ni sawa! kuna wale watabeba na reli depending na ni nini hiyo inabebwa! wacha tuone!

Truck inachukua masaa ngapi to nbo from msa, jam free?
I care!
newfarer
#659 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:32:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,504
Location: Uganda
Lolest! wrote:
KR now says there'll be 2 trains leaving at around 9am. The express one and ya mlengo

No other trips will be there for the time being. No night train.

You can only buy tickets at the station. No pre-booking

lazy chaps letting a good project fail.if no prebooking how do they plan?hope Uhuru is following up his pet project after the launch
punda amecheka
Lolest!
#660 Posted : Thursday, June 01, 2017 12:58:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
newfarer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
KR now says there'll be 2 trains leaving at around 9am. The express one and ya mlengo

No other trips will be there for the time being. No night train.

You can only buy tickets at the station. No pre-booking

lazy chaps letting a good project fail.if no prebooking how do they plan?hope Uhuru is following up his pet project after the launch

You could end up with 1500 guys at the station while capacity is 1200. They need to rethink
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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