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Other religious discourse
Wakanyugi
#621 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 12:59:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
AlphDoti wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
@2012, Yes. Muslims worship Yahweh the creator of this universe... Allah is God's name in Arabic. The same God whose name is Mwenyezi Mungu in swahili, Ngai in Kikuyu, Mulungu in Kamba, Nyasaye in Luyia, Asis in Kalenjin etc.

Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, Mungu, Ngai, Dieux etc no difference

Alpha, I have met a number of Muslim ladies who dont shake hands. One of them told me it is haram for a Muslim woman to shake hands with a man unless they are related. Is this true? What is the basis for the prohibition? How come the majority shake hands?

@Wakanyugi, thank you for asking me this question.

Yes it is not allowed for the opposite gender to shake hands apart from those who are related to e.g. father, brother, husband, son, uncle, grandfather, grandsons, nephews...

Let me give you an analogy which is close to this. Does every Tom, Dik and Harry shake the Queen's hands? Obviously no.

So our religion has placed the Muslim woman even over and above the England Queen. She's a queen in her throne that not everyone has got the status to shake her lovely hands.


Thank you.

But why only women? Are men not Kings too? Can cousins shake hands?
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Lolest!
#622 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 2:29:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
2012 wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Muslim also means one who not only believes in Allah as his Rabbi (the Creator), but also believes in the Prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h as the Last Messenger of Allah.

@AlphDoti, I've always wondered, did Islam originate from Ishmael, first son of Abraham?

Do Muslims worship Yahweh, the same God as the Christians?

It's very Ishmaelite. So Abraham passed blessing to Ishmael; Isaac gave us the Messiah & all the prophets before him but Ishmael only gave us Muhammad

CONfusion

What about prophet Lot. What about Prophet Noah. What about prophet Enock... They were not born by Isaac. But still they are prophets of God.

It's fun to know these numbers, how many prophets born by so and so prophets etc but it doesn't hold any logical or theological importance.

I hope you agree with me on that?

No

The God of the OT is definitely not Muhammad's god

Infact, one of these supreme beings is bonoko

They lead us to separate paths
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#623 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 4:09:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
Wakanyugi wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
@2012, Yes. Muslims worship Yahweh the creator of this universe... Allah is God's name in Arabic. The same God whose name is Mwenyezi Mungu in swahili, Ngai in Kikuyu, Mulungu in Kamba, Nyasaye in Luyia, Asis in Kalenjin etc.

Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, Mungu, Ngai, Dieux etc no difference

Alpha, I have met a number of Muslim ladies who dont shake hands. One of them told me it is haram for a Muslim woman to shake hands with a man unless they are related. Is this true? What is the basis for the prohibition? How come the majority shake hands?

@Wakanyugi, thank you for asking me this question.

Yes it is not allowed for the opposite gender to shake hands apart from those who are related to e.g. father, brother, husband, son, uncle, grandfather, grandsons, nephews...

Let me give you an analogy which is close to this. Does every Tom, Dik and Harry shake the Queen's hands? Obviously no.

So our religion has placed the Muslim woman even over and above the England Queen. She's a queen in her throne that not everyone has got the status to shake her lovely hands.

Thank you.

But why only women? Are men not Kings too? Can cousins shake hands?

@Wakanyugi, this is not for women only. Just like you consider your woman as QUEEN, you automatically are the KING. QUEEN for KING, PRINCESS for PRINCE. An analogy.

It is because you had asked me about the women... It is vice versa for men too... the men are not allowed to shake the hands of the opposite gender who are not related to e.g. mother, sister, wife, daughter, aunt, grandmother, granddaughters, nieces...

See detailed response below...
AlphDoti
#624 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 4:19:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
@Wakanyugi, the detailed answer, please read.

It is a misconception when people talk about the veil, about hijab in Islam, (hijab or veil means modesty) they always think the hijab is for women only. But God in Quran first speaks about the hijab for man and then of the woman.

If you read the Quran in Surah Noor chapter 24:30:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."

It means, whenever a man looks at a woman who is not his wife, and if any unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze. First the man should be dressed modestly.

The next verse in the Quran Surah Noor chapter 24:31 speaks about hijab for women, says:
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."

It means that in front of the people she cannot marry she does not have to wear hijab, otherwise for all other people, she should maintain the hijab.
Lolest!
#625 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 8:56:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
quicksand
#626 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 9:11:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake


Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....
AlphDoti
#627 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 11:29:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
quicksand wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake

Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....

No @lonest. It didn't start after Muhammad p.b.u.h... I'm sure you'll recognize the below verse:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
quicksand
#628 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 11:45:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake

Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....

No @lonest. It didn't start after Muhammad p.b.u.h... I'm sure you'll recognize the below verse:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)


This women thing .... really gets your goat doesn't it?
You really plumb the depths, from the Bible to the Quran to bring us these gems..singular focus ...
AlphDoti
#629 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 4:02:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
quicksand wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake

Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....

No @lonest. It didn't start after Muhammad p.b.u.h... I'm sure you'll recognize the below verse:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

This women thing .... really gets your goat doesn't it?
You really plumb the depths, from the Bible to the Quran to bring us these gems..singular focus ...

@quicksand, the above was meant for @lonest. I was just trying to remove some ignorance from some people.

Let me give him some more infor from Judaism:

Background
There are a variety of reasons in Judaism that are used to justify gender separation to varying degrees.

In Pirkei Avot 1:5, Yosi ben Yochanan says that a man who spends too much time talking to women, even his wife, neglects the study of Torah and will inherit gehinnom.

Chapter 152 of Kitzur Shulchan Aruch details a series of laws forbidding interaction between persons of the opposite sex who are not married or closely related. Some of the prohibitions include physical contact, isolation with members of the opposite sex, staring at women or any of there body parts or attire, or conversation for pleasure.


You can also look at the status of women in earlier civilizations
Lolest!
#630 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 10:12:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake

Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....

No @lonest. It didn't start after Muhammad p.b.u.h... I'm sure you'll recognize the below verse:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

Mathukuma opined that recency and Muhammad's longevity gave Islam the finer feel. He had enough time to come up with new rules.

This rule must've been based on his experiences. He was a real he-goat. How many wives did he have before going adulterous on his daughter-in-law?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#631 Posted : Monday, May 22, 2017 10:14:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
quicksand wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Maybe that rule was brought about after Muhammad stole his son's wife

He must have started with a handshake

Wueeeeh!!! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Stones thrown.....waiting....

No @lonest. It didn't start after Muhammad p.b.u.h... I'm sure you'll recognize the below verse:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

This women thing .... really gets your goat doesn't it?
You really plumb the depths, from the Bible to the Quran to bring us these gems..singular focus ...

@quicksand, the above was meant for @lonest. I was just trying to remove some ignorance from some people.

Let me give him some more infor from Judaism:

Background
There are a variety of reasons in Judaism that are used to justify gender separation to varying degrees.

In Pirkei Avot 1:5, Yosi ben Yochanan says that a man who spends too much time talking to women, even his wife, neglects the study of Torah and will inherit gehinnom.

Chapter 152 of Kitzur Shulchan Aruch details a series of laws forbidding interaction between persons of the opposite sex who are not married or closely related. Some of the prohibitions include physical contact, isolation with members of the opposite sex, staring at women or any of there body parts or attire, or conversation for pleasure.


You can also look at the status of women in earlier civilizations

I'm sending you school fees, Imam Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
tycho
#632 Posted : Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:05:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?
AlphDoti
#633 Posted : Tuesday, May 23, 2017 11:41:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...
tycho
#634 Posted : Tuesday, May 23, 2017 1:18:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...


Therefore, you don't know whether Allah is alive or not.
Apricot
#635 Posted : Tuesday, May 23, 2017 9:02:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...


Therefore, you don't know whether Allah is alive or not.


Intelligent Design it really is! @Tycho I am surprised he slipped this fallacy past you…
See he is telling you that those things that work well in nature are here courtesy of ID. Now this is how wonderful is ID is: If you assume the world is older than the 6000 years creationists want you to believe, then even if you go with 20,000 year, we know the most species that ever existed on our planet earth are extinct now; for thousands of years, humans suffered/died from simple illnesses; life expectancy was barely 30 years; barbaric wars were the norm; and yet through all these years, the ID creator watched with indifference. Then about 2000 years ago in bronze age Palestine or 1400 years ago in the same region the ID creator decided it was time to intervene by offering as a sacrifice a Galilean carpenter or sharing his revelation with illiterate merchant. Such intelligent design it was…Now with benefit of hindsight, ID proponents can lay claim to discoveries made in medicine, cosmology and evolution - what a way to shift goal posts!
First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
tycho
#636 Posted : Wednesday, May 24, 2017 9:54:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Apricot wrote:
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...


Therefore, you don't know whether Allah is alive or not.


Intelligent Design it really is! @Tycho I am surprised he slipped this fallacy past you…
See he is telling you that those things that work well in nature are here courtesy of ID. Now this is how wonderful is ID is: If you assume the world is older than the 6000 years creationists want you to believe, then even if you go with 20,000 year, we know the most species that ever existed on our planet earth are extinct now; for thousands of years, humans suffered/died from simple illnesses; life expectancy was barely 30 years; barbaric wars were the norm; and yet through all these years, the ID creator watched with indifference. Then about 2000 years ago in bronze age Palestine or 1400 years ago in the same region the ID creator decided it was time to intervene by offering as a sacrifice a Galilean carpenter or sharing his revelation with illiterate merchant. Such intelligent design it was…Now with benefit of hindsight, ID proponents can lay claim to discoveries made in medicine, cosmology and evolution - what a way to shift goal posts!


I'm not sure the intelligent design argument passed me. The importance of what he's admitted is perhaps the weightier... a kind of alienation.
AlphDoti
#637 Posted : Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:59:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,274
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
Apricot wrote:
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...

Therefore, you don't know whether Allah is alive or not.

Intelligent Design it really is! @Tycho I am surprised he slipped this fallacy past you…
See he is telling you that those things that work well in nature are here courtesy of ID. Now this is how wonderful is ID is: If you assume the world is older than the 6000 years creationists want you to believe, then even if you go with 20,000 year, we know the most species that ever existed on our planet earth are extinct now; for thousands of years, humans suffered/died from simple illnesses; life expectancy was barely 30 years; barbaric wars were the norm; and yet through all these years, the ID creator watched with indifference. Then about 2000 years ago in bronze age Palestine or 1400 years ago in the same region the ID creator decided it was time to intervene by offering as a sacrifice a Galilean carpenter or sharing his revelation with illiterate merchant. Such intelligent design it was…Now with benefit of hindsight, ID proponents can lay claim to discoveries made in medicine, cosmology and evolution - what a way to shift goal posts!

I'm not sure the intelligent design argument passed me. The importance of what he's admitted is perhaps the weightier... a kind of alienation.

@Apricot don't you know @tycho believes in God? Everything obeys the laws of nature... defined by the designer or creator...

AS I said in earlier post, if a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reported that God the Exalted said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray."

The Messenger of God (pbuh) also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian."
Apricot
#638 Posted : Thursday, May 25, 2017 9:10:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:

@Apricot don't you know @tycho believes in God? Everything obeys the laws of nature... defined by the designer or creator...

AS I said in earlier post, if a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reported that God the Exalted said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray."

The Messenger of God (pbuh) also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian."


@Apricot don't you know @tycho believes in God? I believe Tycho can speak for himself.
Everything obeys the laws of nature... defined by the designer or creator...What is your evidence for this? If it your holy book then don’t bother replying.

AS I said in earlier post, if a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment. You also fail to mention that they would not grow up as Muslim, or Christian or Hindu, etc., either. But if you mean they are spiritually aware, I contend that spiritual awareness is not equivalent to worshipping a man-made god. Our minds are pattern seeking. We want to understand the sun, the moon, the cosmos, wind, fire, etc. When we don’t understand these, we seek irrational explanations and submit to servile instincts. Spiritual awareness embodies how to coexist in harmony with nature and with other primates.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reported that God the Exalted said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray." Every religion claims it is the right religion! This plurality of religions is a clear testimony that religions/god(s) were created by men/women in their own image and for their benefit? Further, the Persians created hell, the Jews perfected the idea and the rest of us adopted the belief wholesomely. Nothing would change if you expunged the idea of heaven and hell, angels and devils; except that there would be nothing to cling to for the believer when confronted with the thought of the afterlife. Did hell even exist in the Old testament?

The Messenger of God (pbuh) also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian." Or muslim, or Buddhist, or Jain, or Hindu, or cult of attis & cybele….
First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
tycho
#639 Posted : Friday, May 26, 2017 1:48:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Apricot wrote:
tycho wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
tycho wrote:
Is Allah alive, and if yes, how is he/she/it alive?

@tycho, just know that believe in God (in Arabic Allah) is true.

This tendency of a doubt is given in the Quran many instances. And the treatment of that is you need to look at the creation of Allah, and ponder over this creation, and you see the perfection and all of these will become a reason for you to accept the fact that there must be someone behind. This is the idea of INTELLIGENT designer. You will be able to see that there is someone behind all of these. So look at the existence around yo, and think about this existence, ponder about how they couldn't have come into existence if there was no one behind them... it can't be a chance!

You see, the natural tendency to obey laws of nature is printed on the human even from mother's womb. So when a child is born, it has with it a natural obedience to laws of nature (nature has been designed by a designer, we call God, Allah). This natural belief is called in Islam the "fitrah".

I gave a response on this here...

Therefore, you don't know whether Allah is alive or not.

Intelligent Design it really is! @Tycho I am surprised he slipped this fallacy past you…
See he is telling you that those things that work well in nature are here courtesy of ID. Now this is how wonderful is ID is: If you assume the world is older than the 6000 years creationists want you to believe, then even if you go with 20,000 year, we know the most species that ever existed on our planet earth are extinct now; for thousands of years, humans suffered/died from simple illnesses; life expectancy was barely 30 years; barbaric wars were the norm; and yet through all these years, the ID creator watched with indifference. Then about 2000 years ago in bronze age Palestine or 1400 years ago in the same region the ID creator decided it was time to intervene by offering as a sacrifice a Galilean carpenter or sharing his revelation with illiterate merchant. Such intelligent design it was…Now with benefit of hindsight, ID proponents can lay claim to discoveries made in medicine, cosmology and evolution - what a way to shift goal posts!

I'm not sure the intelligent design argument passed me. The importance of what he's admitted is perhaps the weightier... a kind of alienation.

@Apricot don't you know @tycho believes in God? Everything obeys the laws of nature... defined by the designer or creator...

AS I said in earlier post, if a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reported that God the Exalted said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray."

The Messenger of God (pbuh) also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian."


For me @AlphDoti, you quit reasoning a long time ago. Now you're restricted to memory verses and reharshing old myths and doctrine. Your God and mine are radically different...
Lolest!
#640 Posted : Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:54:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Quote:
"In Saudi, it's hard to be straight when you're young. The women are shut away so everyone has gay sex. But they only want to have sex with boys – 15- to 21-year-olds. I'm 27, so I'm too old now. I need to find real gays, so this is the best place. All Arab gays want to live in Dubai."

http://www.independent.c...e-of-dubai-1664368.html

Man is evil, no amount of legalism can save him.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
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