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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Apricot wrote:Okay folks, cut Humbuglar some slack; I know his language isn’t the nicest sometimes but what do you expect when he has to defend his position against an army of apologists in a clearly hard-line Christian society? Actually I think that is quite courageous of him. For a change why not watch a video(s) of theist debate against atheist. There are many choices off-courses and you can choose whichever you like from you tube; but this one that I post is between Christopher Hitchens (atheist) and Dinesh D’Souza (theist) in 2009. I don't expect anyone to change their position on their beliefs based on what they see or hear, but you can a least get to see why each side defends its position vigorously. Both debaters are quite erudite. This isn't a matter of apologetics. It's a matter of consciousness. Maybe for the records you should know I'm not a Christian. But I know Christianity, and I know atheism... And that's my starting point!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? Do you know of religious atheism? And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course!
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? Do you know of religious atheism? And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course!  Congratulations. Now we can talk. I will answer your questions later and we can debate further. That's the spirit.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? Do you know of religious atheism? And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course! Congratulations. Now we can talk. I will answer your questions later and we can debate further. That's the spirit. I don't need your approval @hamburglar! You just answer the questions and get the debate going, if you can. And don't start on 'spirits'. Not now.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? I won't answer that question because it's an insult to my intelligence. –---------------------------- Do you know of religious atheism? There is nothing like religious atheism. That's an oxymoron. Those two are mutually exclusive, you are either a believer or a skeptic (agnostic and atheist). I have been an atheist for over 20 years and I have never heard anybody claim they are a religious atheist. Listen, this is a black and white issue, there is no grey area like you are trying to insinuate. You are either one or the other. That's it.
And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? I mean that life of an atheist is better on paper. Period. Reasons why: Atheists have been proven to be more intelligent than theists. That's why we don't get conned by pastors. Individual atheists and atheist leaning countries are richer and have a much higher standard of living than religious countries and religious people. Atheists on average are more educated and more accomplished than theists. There are hardly any atheists in the prison systems around the world. Our percentage compared to the theist percentage is not comparable. Most criminals are god fearing. Atheists are more morally upright than theists. Google it. Bottom line is atheists have a much better lifestyle than most theists. There are many more reasons but that's what I can think of the top of my head. I don't really care about about who has the better narrative, all I care about is who is living a better life. That's what we as human beings aspire for. A better life and not a better narrative.
Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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The question of religion or discussion, is one that nobody can win simply because it is personal and preferential. We might debate, argue and insult each other but our positions will not change, making all these meaningless.
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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2012 wrote:The question of religion or discussion, is one that nobody can win simply because it is personal and preferential. We might debate, argue and insult each other but our positions will not change, making all these meaningless. Actually you would be surprised at how many people have personally told me that my arguments have made them look at religion and gods from a different perspective. How many people have admitted that I am right and they are more inclined to abandon religion altogether after listening to my rationale. Which I think is good for them because it provokes their conscience and makes them more inquisitive and conscious about this issue. A few months ago, one of my friends who is a staunch Christian and knows that am an atheist told me that he has always known that am right but he is very much indoctrinated and scared to renounce his religion. Deep down he knows he is living a lie. But at least he says that he stopped tithing ever since he discovered that he is being conned out of his money. That to me is a win for humanity and a loss to the Kiunas, Kanyaris, Osteens and all the other religious criminals who use fear and lies to exploit the gullible people's innocence for their personal gain. Someday we will enlighten most religious people and the church will be no more. Then maybe we can save some families from ruin against this scandalous business. We need to empower people and give them reasons and education so as to not be taken advantage of. So 2012, my "mission" is not completely meaningless. I know for a fact that I have made a few people rethink the detriment that is religion and false gods.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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hamburglar wrote:Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:@hambuglar
It is clear from this thread that you are not interested in any discussion.
Tafuta mbinu nyingine ya kuwasiliana na wenzio.
Amen. Stick to the topic and stop stalking me all over. Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about religion versus atheism? I am not interested in any discussion about hamburglar. If you have an opinion about the topic then I will engage you, everything else about low esteem and all the other crap about me is nonsense. Focus. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion then leave and stop exhausting us with all the harmburglar this and hamburglar that garbage. Nobody cares what you think about me.
Okay.... Can you please grow up and stop making yourself part of the topic?
No one is interested in knowing how delicious your meals are or which kind of restaurants you take them in or how a good businessman you are or how intelligent you are. I doubt you can be objective.....but can you? . Stick to the topic you imbecile. Stop stalking me all over the place. Do you have anything to say about the said topic? Are you slow or something? Apricot just showed you how to post something about the topic, you should try that and stop being an idiot for once. Stop stalking me and stick to the freaking topic. Jesus. Watch Apricot's video and comment about it and get of my balls. You are stalking everything I say like I owe you money. This chick is even investigating the food I eat, get a life. Lol. Anyway, Apricot, that video is very enlightening. Very thought provoking.
Stalking? Why should anyone stalk a sick man? I told you have a mental health disorder and you need to see a shrink.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? I won't answer that question because it's an insult to my intelligence. –---------------------------- Do you know of religious atheism? There is nothing like religious atheism. That's an oxymoron. Those two are mutually exclusive, you are either a believer or a skeptic (agnostic and atheist). I have been an atheist for over 20 years and I have never heard anybody claim they are a religious atheist. Listen, this is a black and white issue, there is no grey area like you are trying to insinuate. You are either one or the other. That's it.
And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? I mean that life of an atheist is better on paper. Period. Reasons why: Atheists have been proven to be more intelligent than theists. That's why we don't get conned by pastors. Individual atheists and atheist leaning countries are richer and have a much higher standard of living than religious countries and religious people. Atheists on average are more educated and more accomplished than theists. There are hardly any atheists in the prison systems around the world. Our percentage compared to the theist percentage is not comparable. Most criminals are god fearing. Atheists are more morally upright than theists. Google it. Bottom line is atheists have a much better lifestyle than most theists. There are many more reasons but that's what I can think of the top of my head. I don't really care about about who has the better narrative, all I care about is who is living a better life. That's what we as human beings aspire for. A better life and not a better narrative.
Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course! I think you need to come out of arguing from ignorance. Kula tano, tano peleka shule. You don't know the difference between Christianity from religion. You're one who thinks all religions are Christianity. Otherwise, if you knew them to be different, inductive reason would show that not all religions are theistic. But my work is not to teach you how to reason. Ama? So, how is buddhism theistic? I can allow you a century to prove it's theistic. And that's an example of religious atheism. Also, do you know Auguste Comte? His church was atheistic. So all this knowledge you're vaunting here is google approved? Or, where did you find this knowledge you're presenting here? So, how did you get to know that a better life, isn't a better narrative? And how do you come with something better than all others? What's the objective you give to life, and how did you satisfy yourself that indeed that is the objective? Who are you to say what the objective ought to be?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Jaribu sports, hare krisna service-tuletee mchele ndengu hapa kibich, you can still be appreciated if you do simple but honest things.
But mambo ya usomi wacha for now at least.
Pia try chakacha.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:Liv wrote:hamburglar wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:@hambuglar
It is clear from this thread that you are not interested in any discussion.
Tafuta mbinu nyingine ya kuwasiliana na wenzio.
Amen. Stick to the topic and stop stalking me all over. Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about religion versus atheism? I am not interested in any discussion about hamburglar. If you have an opinion about the topic then I will engage you, everything else about low esteem and all the other crap about me is nonsense. Focus. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion then leave and stop exhausting us with all the harmburglar this and hamburglar that garbage. Nobody cares what you think about me.
Okay.... Can you please grow up and stop making yourself part of the topic?
No one is interested in knowing how delicious your meals are or which kind of restaurants you take them in or how a good businessman you are or how intelligent you are. I doubt you can be objective.....but can you? . Stick to the topic you imbecile. Stop stalking me all over the place. Do you have anything to say about the said topic? Are you slow or something? Apricot just showed you how to post something about the topic, you should try that and stop being an idiot for once. Stop stalking me and stick to the freaking topic. Jesus. Watch Apricot's video and comment about it and get of my balls. You are stalking everything I say like I owe you money. This chick is even investigating the food I eat, get a life. Lol. Anyway, Apricot, that video is very enlightening. Very thought provoking.
Stalking? Why should anyone stalk a sick man? I told you have a mental health disorder and you need to see a shrink.
Sawa. I will see a shrink. Is there a shrink in the house? Hit me up I come see you about my mental disorder. 
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:tycho wrote:Eti 'atheism versus religion'?
Please get the categories under contention right. Ama we need to remind you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion? Or capitalism is both religious and atheistic?
I think youre concern is atheism versus Christianity.
For which, are we talking about who, between atheists and Christians has the higher and better truth? Yaani bado uko medieval ...
Situate yourself in history also. Does this guy use drugs? Lol Apart from your silly question, there are issues you need to respond to from my post. What are you arguing about? Religion, or Christianity; do you know the difference between the two? I won't answer that question because it's an insult to my intelligence. –---------------------------- Do you know of religious atheism? There is nothing like religious atheism. That's an oxymoron. Those two are mutually exclusive, you are either a believer or a skeptic (agnostic and atheist). I have been an atheist for over 20 years and I have never heard anybody claim they are a religious atheist. Listen, this is a black and white issue, there is no grey area like you are trying to insinuate. You are either one or the other. That's it.
And, finally, when you claim atheism is better, what do you really mean? That atheism has a better narrative than Christianity? I mean that life of an atheist is better on paper. Period. Reasons why: Atheists have been proven to be more intelligent than theists. That's why we don't get conned by pastors. Individual atheists and atheist leaning countries are richer and have a much higher standard of living than religious countries and religious people. Atheists on average are more educated and more accomplished than theists. There are hardly any atheists in the prison systems around the world. Our percentage compared to the theist percentage is not comparable. Most criminals are god fearing. Atheists are more morally upright than theists. Google it. Bottom line is atheists have a much better lifestyle than most theists. There are many more reasons but that's what I can think of the top of my head. I don't really care about about who has the better narrative, all I care about is who is living a better life. That's what we as human beings aspire for. A better life and not a better narrative.
Yeah, answer these reasonably and the debate will be on course! I think you need to come out of arguing from ignorance. Kula tano, tano peleka shule. You don't know the difference between Christianity from religion. You're one who thinks all religions are Christianity. Otherwise, if you knew them to be different, inductive reason would show that not all religions are theistic. But my work is not to teach you how to reason. Ama? So, how is buddhism theistic? I can allow you a century to prove it's theistic. And that's an example of religious atheism. Also, do you know Auguste Comte? His church was atheistic. So all this knowledge you're vaunting here is google approved? Or, where did you find this knowledge you're presenting here? So, how did you get to know that a better life, isn't a better narrative? And how do you come with something better than all others? What's the objective you give to life, and how did you satisfy yourself that indeed that is the objective? Who are you to say what the objective ought to be? Lol. I give up. I have decided to completely ignore you from now on coz you are exhausting. So there.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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hamburglar wrote:Mukiri wrote:@Hamburglar really packs some heat. Hapana mincing words  Anyways, that bile can't be good for your health. I also noticed that you calmed down after you were called 'Baba..' So sema baba.. What's on your mind? I have no religious training other than a year of teaching, in a class setup, in our Church CITAM Valley Road.. The Wazuans I've met, thought I'd turn up in robes and all, but... It's why I sometimes shy away from 'deep' exchanges lest my ignorance is damaging both to myself and other Christians. Out of curiosity, do you have formal training in Aethism, or do you just speak off the bat? Voice what feels right to you at the time? Unfortunately I never read your posts mukiri coz they are always retarded. They are exhausting. Can I get an amen? Lol. Amen. So I take it from your abuse that you have no formal training, in Aethism, and it seems its not something you are anxious to share? Orait.. Makes two of us Na sasa, your super powers of replying my posts, which you don't read...?  lol.. It is said that if you argue with a mad man, people might fail to notice the difference... If you find me retarded, isn't the wisest course of action, to keep your distance?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Apricot wrote:Okay folks, cut Hambuglar some slack; I know his language isn’t the nicest sometimes but what do you expect when he has to defend his position against an army of apologists in a clearly hard-line Christian society? Actually I think that is quite courageous of him. Thank you @Apricot for saying this. I started reading these posts and as I read and read... You posted what I wanted to say exactly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 4/13/2017 Posts: 12
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hamburglar, still waiting for your feedback here
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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SeekI'm writing this as a Christian. If you are religious and following this post the first thing you should ask yourself is; what do the atheists stand to gain by converting you into nothingness? What is their interest in your non-believe? Is there a bigger picture? I don't know. But doesn't it therefore make sense to seek God all the days of your life? After all, believing in nothing means you most likely have a lot of idle time & space to seek. To seek for answers into the many unanswered questions in your life and this world. Let nobody tell you that s/he believes in nothing, that's a lie. Everybody has something they believe in, some believe they are supreme, others in the dark side, others put their believe in objects while others believe in the power of togetherness like the people of the ancient Babel (Genesis 11:1-9). The Bible is very clear, God doesn't ask you to follow Him blindly. He asks you to seek Him. The same way you'd go searching for a job after college. Here are a few verses on seeking God: “But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well” (Matthew 6:33).
“But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul” (Deuteronomy 4:29).
“The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God” (Psalm 14:2)
“You, God, are my God, earnestly I seek you; I thirst for you, my whole being longs for you, in a dry and parched land where there is no water” (Psalm 63:1)
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)In my opinion, there's no harm in seeking, you might seek and not find Him and that's not possible, but is it not worth taking the chance if there's even the slimmest chance that you might seek and find HIm like He promised? So, offering me a choice between nothing and a risk into something greater, I'll take the risk anytime. Nothing has ever been achieved from some comfort of nothing or giving up. Everything great was achieved through believing in what seemed impossible and illogical. So, stay foolish stay hungry, never stop seeking..... you never know...
BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2011 Posts: 181 Location: Nairobi
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Take a break from serious religious stuff and enjoy Muhammad Ali. First time in history we can save the human race by laying in front of the TV and doing nothing. Let's not screw it up
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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At least I've gotten to see one way in which @hamburglar is right.
In a global and multicultural world, a mind rooted in the mythology of 1700's will claim to be better than a mythology of the 600's or 300 CE.
It's amazing how slowly our myths change, and even how we are quick to believe our myths fit all the time.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/27/2006 Posts: 503
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Seems I'm late to the party. Just as well, from the past few posts it seems like this thread has degenerated into name calling and other kinds of discord.
For those wazuans going to church today (I believe that most people here are Christians?), here's some food for thought:
1. Two creation stories in Genesis (?)
2. No archeaological evidence that Jews were in Egypt (with all those hieroglyphics, its strange no one bothered to indicate that the Nile once turned red).
3. No geological evidence of the Deluge. Also strange that the first human act after finding land is to offer an animal sacrifice (?)
4. Also, no dinosaurs in the bible- but giants, winged creatures (cherubs) and demigods (nephilim).
"if there's a creator, he must have an inordinate fondness for beetles"
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