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National security.
B.Timer
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:01:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
With the current state of affairs in the international arena in regard to terrorism is it a good/bad idea to limit our security officers.
We are told that some fellows sneaked words that would empower the security officers but instead of reflecting seriously if or not it is good for the country, we,in a knee jerk reaction started baying for their blood.


Just What motivated the 'sneakers'.

Might the NSIS, assuming that they did it, been trying to do that which is in the best interest of the country's greater good.


With the sneaked words expunged, are we tying our security personnel's hands behind their backs?

Just as we have had fraudsters in the past hiding in - invoking issues of constitutional reference over fundamental rights being trampled upon, are we likely to get terrorists take us down that road too.
We will be in a position to effectively deal with those who truly threaten national security.
Might this demotivate the security perssonell, leaving us vulnerable to Al shabab and co.

Merely because a clause in law has been abused in the past doesnt mean the only way to deal with it is to repeal it.
We can frame it in such a way that we discourage arbitrary abuse of Rights while still giving the secrity personnell impetus to protect us.
Dunia ni msongamano..
Intelligentsia
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 4:49:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@BT a good topic but this is a double-edged sword,as national security can be taken as a blank cheque to tramp on civil liberties or just about take any action the powers that be under this banner.
This means they can tap your phones, detain oyou incommunicado, shadow your every movement, kidnap you, torture you or at worst, even eliminate you since you pose a clear & present danger to the national state. And they can get away with it - legally. Such then are the elements of a police state.

It is the fear of such excesses which can easily makes an intelligence outfit rogue that scares citizens. Plus the national security banner can be misused by politicians like our former Special Branch was. Or it can become too powerful like FBI under J.Edgar Hoover. Or the Stassy in East Germany/ Romania under Nicolae Ceasusescu or the SRB in Uganda under Amin.
I say lets first evolve a clearly professional imtelligence outfit before permitting some of these powers.
simonkabz
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:07:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@intel, if the kenyan NSIS isnt "clearly professional", which one in the world is?
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:06:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
B.Timer wrote:
With the current state of affairs in the international arena in regard to terrorism is it a good/bad idea to limit our security officers.
We are told that some fellows sneaked words that would empower the security officers but instead of reflecting seriously if or not it is good for the country, we,in a knee jerk reaction started baying for their blood.


Just What motivated the 'sneakers'.

Might the NSIS, assuming that they did it, been trying to do that which is in the best interest of the country's greater good.


With the sneaked words expunged, are we tying our security personnel's hands behind their backs?

Just as we have had fraudsters in the past hiding in - invoking issues of constitutional reference over fundamental rights being trampled upon, are we likely to get terrorists take us down that road too.
We will be in a position to effectively deal with those who truly threaten national security.
Might this demotivate the security perssonell, leaving us vulnerable to Al shabab and co.

Merely because a clause in law has been abused in the past doesnt mean the only way to deal with it is to repeal it.
We can frame it in such a way that we discourage arbitrary abuse of Rights while still giving the secrity personnell impetus to protect us.


@B.Timer, don't make me laugh, what good is our security personnel. At present they are more dangerous to citizenry than thugs/terrorists, weak, ineffectual, corrupt and of no benefit to our nation, hopefully we will see a change in future
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
simonkabz
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 13, 2010 9:08:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Of no use? Hahaha...now thats naive....if they were nønexistent Obi would have told us sth else! Typical of human beings, myself included.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Intelligentsia
#6 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 7:18:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
simonkabz wrote:
@intel, if the kenyan NSIS isnt "clearly professional", which one in the world is?


Special Branch was an unmitigated disaster, not professional and very partisan. Arent they the bsame blokes who were pushing journalists out of a ngorofa window? and all those political prisoners & detentions based on preso's whims? Thats where we are coming from to NSIS now - its takes years to profesionalize such an outfit. It is on its way there but IMHO bado.Shame on you
B.Timer
#7 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 1:04:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Is it not poosible to balance between the two aspects - Give the officers neccesary latitude while still guarding against abuse.

Kama haiwezekani basi, instead of hiring people to work for us, and at the same time tying their hands at the back, may be we should consider scrapping the body all together!!

Dunia ni msongamano..
2012
#8 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 2:10:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I don't think these two words were sneaked in with good intentions. They were sneaked so that they can be discovered and bring the entire process into disrepute.

BBI will solve it
:)
sky5
#9 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 2:46:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
IMHO; I believe whoever sneaked the words had good intentions but used not only the the wrong and illegal process, but also treasonous.

It would would be difficult for NSIS to work effectively without being able to gather intelligence including acces to private and secret communications. But the draft still gives room for another law to limit the rights and freedoms. But can it ever pass in parliament especially with the anti-terrorism bill still going in circles.
B.Timer
#10 Posted : Friday, May 14, 2010 3:03:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@Sky5,

Well put.

If it was they then I say;

1. They needed to use conventional means to get the leverage they need protected in the constitution.

2. What level (how high in their command) was involved.

3. Who else knew.

4. Remember they brief the ultimate boss regularly.

5. Can it get any murkier.

Dunia ni msongamano..
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